K i belive i got it where you missunderstanding the situation, you take me to literally, rather then out of the view of a new player. First i don't mean he can't find better drops, what i mean is from his view he will never be able to find better items. I obviously don't mean that you can never find better gear when you upgrade it. (better gear sell value wise), but better gear stats wise is impossible then. That is the part the player will look after. What is the issue here? Look not at my post but rather on geos post, because that is what i was going on in the first place. Just looking at mine would make little sense. Geo is saying they changed the system that when you upgrade it has no influence on the item power of an item, meaning the stats the next item drop are still only near the base like the items he already wears and upgraded. This means he either needs to upgrade them to get better stats on his gear, and keep doing this over and over and over again, or he needs to use the none worse stats gear to progress higher. This is the main point of the topic here kinda. Yes you can upgrade and then throw it away for worse stat gear and advance loot wise, but that is illogical. Like you said it should be a choice to upgrade or not upgrade and both pathes should lead in the end to better gear (better stats wise) which drop. But it isn't the case then. (again read geos post closely, i am only reacting to it) Slowest and most stupid progression system ever. I have to agree. Even the nightmares were better than this, at least you could got fully geared in a few days if you found someone who could help. Gearing up by only finding stuff that has 1 more gold value every wave is the most stupid, annoying and anti-fun way ever. Trendy seem to make worse and worse decisions every day. I have to disagree, gearing up in a few days was the biggest reason I quit back in the days of ipwr.