Fair call mate, I'll admit I'm getting confused as to who has said what I'm this thread, it's going downhill fast and just frustrating everybody.
So uh... Sorry for that. Seriously.
No worries. :) This, my friend, is called moving the goalposts. It's a cute little logical fallacy anyone who's read more than three of your posts had every reason to believe you would not hesitate to engage in. This is exactly why no-one cares enough to take time out of their lives to give you the proof of non-impossibility you repeatedly demand to counter-indicate -your- claim.
Ah! I didn't know it had a name—it's good that I said I wouldn't go that far, though. My logic-gears are, at least, turning correctly. As for the, "had every reason to believe..." comment; it was frankly an unnecessary comment—not very productive to the conversation— unless I'm misinterpreting you. Maybe I'm too used to being on the internet. Your arguments also rest on a somewhat unspoken premise that in order to progress, you must be able to clear a full match of nightmare survival to round 25 and beyond. This is faulty too, as gear drops every wave. You're at the mercy of the Random Number God, sure, and getting farther is pretty much always better, but as things are, getting better is always gonna require some grind. At best, the series EV helps free up some DU. It oils the gears of grinding a little, maybe. But you can get noticeably better results with a good guardian. Yes, guardians have range limits and can only affect 5 towers at a time. But you can also keep an eye on the battlefield, and move them where they are needed.
I... don't quite understand the point you're trying to make here. I think you're saying something like: -You don't have to get to higher, end-game waves to get better equipment. You still get some good equipment at lower-waves, albeit at a much lower frequency.
-The EV will make lower-waves easier, but isn't a necessity for lower waves
- Therefore it's not impossible to progress w/o the EV, assuming progression is defined as getting better equipment.
I think. If that isn't what you're saying, feel free to correct me. No one's disputing that there'll be some grinding either way.
If that's the case though, then yes, this is absolutely true. If progression is more loosly defined as, "Getting better equipment," as opposed to the spoken (by both sides) premise that progression is totally clearing an end-game Survival, I 100% agree. In fact, don't think anyone will disagree—but changing the premise of what progression is only changes the claim: "Progressing in the game is much, much, much easier with an EV than it is w/o one. So much easier that not getting the EV and trying to 'progress' is like trying to win the lottery, because you'd have to rely only on the hope that you get Wave 25+ quality loot on much earlier waves."
The re-worded claim is, again, one that I feel is true. Though all that does is complicate the issue. I could go into a short tangent as to why both "progressions" are very similar—and generally conclude similarly—but working with one is much more difficult to prove/disprove claims in than working with the other.
So we have:
"Progression: Clearing an end-game Survival map"
- Clearing an end-game Survival map is impossible without the use of an EV.
"Progression: Getting better equipment."
- Getting better equipment is much more difficult, much more time consuming, requires more grinding, with much less guarantee w/o an EV—because, w/o an EV, you'd have to stick to the low waves and hope for high-wave loot.
Um... pick one, I guess?
(Furthermore, I think the 2nd one makes the issue more convoluted considering we obviously have differing opinions on the extent of the EV's use. We'd have to define what "low waves" are. I think the EV is more necssary than you do, so when I think "low waves", I think waves 1 - 10—maybe even up to 15. You might think waves 18 - 24 are "low waves". It's far easier to use "progression" as we've been using it—because you have a clearly, easily defined conclusion which also covers getting better equipment.)
The unspoken-of premise you mentioned was actually pretty spoken of by both sides. Changing it as (again, I think) you propose to do would make things a lot messier.
Relevant to your other statements:
I very much like the EV. I have no problem with it being necessary for progression, nor do I have a problem with paying Trendy for classes like the EV and the Summoner or DLCs like the Shards-pack. I currently totally approve of the way they're releasing their content and would probably had paid more for DD had I known it would be so fun. I have zero problem with paying Trendy for new content, and I have zero problem with the content they've released. That being said, I still say it's impossible to clear end-game Survival w/o an EV. :D
I very much agree with Darkman_0, though, and that is all I—and others—have been saying. [The only way a sufficiant answer can be found is if] someone finishes aquanos without series EV and with lower stats than the people who are objecting to the idea of it being possible. Since that's the only "hard" proof that could possibly be gathered.
Personally, I don't even care about the stats, I just want to see it done, because I don't believe it's possible. There's no other way of proving it is—and the absense of evidence is the evidence of absense, so, so far, the naysayers have the evidence.
And do you really expect the people saying it's impossible to go out and prove that it's possible, when they think it's impossible? O.o The people saying it's impossible have no reason to try it, not the other way around.
Darkman: My mistake; I agree, you would need nearly perfect gear (assuming, as you are, it's possible).
(Sorry everyone for the formatting of this post. I can't help but to see it as very messy.)