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Dingle

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  1. I'm back from a short hiatus. Mainly because I noticed the DDDK update. Seems like CrzyRndm got here first this time. :demon: Hmm, after some more looking would you mind telling me if I'm on the right track for understanding it or just completely lost? Does the quality have to do with the rating returned by GetEquipmentRating and GetEquipmentRatingPercent or are those used solely for the comparison function? The rating returned by GetEquipmentRating is used for qualities at mythical and above. Qualities themselves are actually divided into a few subgroups which have slightly different systems for how they work. Qualities at Godly or below are determined by the initial RNG rolls (the ones from 0-1) - those rolls are added together, and if the final item doesn't meet the requirements for Mythical, the RNG scale is used. This is why if you've found the quality table, Godly has a quality value of 8.5 while Mythical has a quality value of 4000 - Godly requires the total of the 0-1 RNG rolls to be 8.5, while Mythical requires a rating of 4000. This is also why you can get insanely statted cursed gear occasionally - Cursed gear has an average RNG roll below 0, but if one or two of those rolls is a 1 with a high multiplier, you get stats like +400 hero damage, +400 hero health... and the item is still considered cursed because the rest are all negative. And then there's the factor that the secondary go negative check doesn't change the actual RNG roll, so a -175 could count as a +0.8 for this calc. Gah. Mythical quality is simple. If the rating's over 4k, it's mythical, no questions asked. Transcendent and up work like Mythical, but also have minimum upgrade requirements. Ultimate+ and up have a new requirement which CrzyRndm is refraining from mentioning, so I won't either. Yes, the system for Godly and below is much more complex, which is why back before super loot was first released, godly gear actually always felt top-end. Then they introduced the second go negative chance, which made it possible for godly equipment with all-negative stats to spawn, and... well, the quality system for Godly and below is now pretty inconsistent.
  2. So regular NM survival and NM pure strat have same chances? Pure Strat won't affect reward pets. It'll decrease regular drop quality, but not the pet rewards.
  3. RNG gave me this while I was testing some mod script a few weeks ago. Because of how I generated it, that had exactly the same chance as the same item with nothing but +330 to 8 stats... Also fun fact: Apparently, it was better than wearing nothing, even though the quality would have been well into the negatives, and it would've reduced most of my hero stats to 0. Odd. Rageamok's cleats take the cake, though. Each neg higher than 115 had a less than 7% chance to be negative, yet he still managed to get 3 of them. Less than 0.001071875% chance (0.5^5 * 0.07^3) of getting that spread of negs (before calculating in the chances of the individual number rolls). Probably roughly the same chance as getting a decent Ult piece.
  4. Alternatively, I can run 4 boxing of NM pure strat to get 4 kobolds at once. Are my chances at getting a perfect kobold better with four slightly lower quality kobolds per run versus the one of NMHC? NMHC is, at best, 50% higher multipliers on the Kobolds, and depending on how close they already come to the cap, could be less than that. So, considering you can beat NM with 4 players vs NMHC with 1, that's 4 kobolds at 100% base chance of a capped stat, or 1 kobold with 150% base chance of a capped stat. NMHC doesn't even double your chances of a perfect kobold, so taking 4 chances at a lower rate is probably better, at least until you can beat NMHC with 3 or 4 players active. @omnx: What I'm saying is there's literally no difference in RNG for a kobold from NM HC MM as compared to one from NM HC. Saying "Mixed Mode gave me a terrible/great Kobold" doesn't mean anything, because Mixed Mode didn't change anything about that kobold - that's just RNG being RNG.
  5. While you're here, what boost does MM give to drops? By the default values, it starts at adding roughly 10% to the value of the wave number, but it's worth proportionally less when you start adding in factors like NM and HC. That line of code is essentially (wave number / scaler) * (Base Multiplier + MM Multiplier + NM Multiplier + HC Multiplier), so the more modes you have on, the less bonus each gives proportionally (a little diminishing returns). At best it's about 10%. At worst (with default values), it can be worth as little as 5%. I think I calculated it as 2% for NM HC MM Palantir a long while back, using the values from DDDK's data for that map. Whether MM is worth using is down to if you can consistently beat it, really. Sure, 2-5% isn't a very large bonus, but if you're beating the stage easily with MM on, you may as well take it. Ed: I'm not really giving an explanation of what the %'s are meaning here... simply put, MM is worth 2-10% of the final multiplier used by the RNG to determine stat rolls (all stats except resistances and SPS/projectiles). So if your multiplier/final stat roll is 20 without it, it's 20.4~22.0 with MM on. Matters more for weapons and accessories than armor in the endgame, because armor multipliers cap low enough that pretty much all DLC maps can reach the multiplier cap on NM HC.
  6. We are to assume that you have run Taven NMHCMM? You are to assume that I know, as a fact, that mix mode will never affect a survival pet. The function the game uses to give out survival pets never checks mix mode.
  7. NMHC will have the best chances of perfect Kobolds, period. There's no such thing as rollover on hero stats, only a piece of code that intentionally makes stats negative - and the chance of that negative is the same regardless of what the stat rolls to, as long as the stat is over 150. If your insane kobold's stats are regularly over 150, they pretty much have the same chance of being negative as a nightmare kobold. If you can't do NMHC, NM regular or NM pure strat will have equal rewards. Mix Mode won't affect the kobolds in the slightest, so don't worry about that.
  8. Hey there I would have wanted to know WHY things can't be upgraded when they spawn with a base stat of 1. It's understandable for upgrades, if it's 1/1 that's normal. but for THAT... (also one of my friends complains about the lack of projectiles for the same weapon.) Specifically, damage stats only upgrade if the stat itself is above 0; most weapons have a base damage of 100-400, and the RNG roll being negative can reduce that below 1, which renders the stat un-upgradeable. When applied to other functionality, if the damage is below 0, it gets boosted up to 1 for calculations, but for upgrading the item, a high enough neg on the RNG roll will make it impossible to upgrade the stat. Code-wise, you're looking at "If (base damage + RNG damage > 1) then (allow upgrade)" Not enough projectiles indeed! Also, I'm not sure why somethings won't upgrade. I have a myth hunt weapon spawned at 368 twr dmg, won't let me upgrade that when myths should go to 400. Mythical and below only upgrade to 360. They can spawn up to 400. In the same way there's no spawn cap for higher qualities - it's common for Trans equipment to spawn above the upgrading limit, and possible for Supreme on some item types.
  9. Thought I'd drop some (mostly theoretical) info on Kobolds and Ultimate+, as there seems to be a lot of misinformation floating around. Firstly, Kobolds: 1) Work like pet rocks for stat generation. This means two things; first, the can never be Mythical or higher (the existence of higher qualities will never affect them), second, stats are reduced to the max after generation. 2) If the stats are reduced after generation, then multipliers high enough to go above the cap actually matter. Higher multipliers = higher chance to go over the cap. 3) It's almost certain that NMHC has higher multipliers than NM, which is better than Insane HC and so on. 4) So higher difficulty should increase the chances of any gien stat being at the limit. Next, Ultimate+: Some tests in DDDK show that items given a higher quality than Ultimate, then ported to Open, don't become Ultimate+. The actual flag for Ultimate+ is the equip's level requirement - it's not necessarily based on quality. By setting an equip's level requirement to 100 in DDDK, and then porting to Open, it became Ultimate+, which doesn't even exist in the current version of DDDK. So the "+" tag is based on level requirement, which used to be set by the quality tag... but the quality tag for Ultimate+ is the same as Ultimate, so they're going a step further here. Essentially there's two possibilities: 1) The equip level requirements are determined based on quality anyways, and done separately. 2) The equip level requirements are determined based on the amount of upgrades the item rolls. Case 1 would mean two things: a) Ultimate+ gear is, by quality, better than Ultimate gear b) Ultimate+ gear's generation method reduces the band in which regular Ultimate gear spawns, from "everything above a certain point" to "everything between points a and b". Case 2 would mean: a) Ultimate+ gear is just Ultimate gear with over a minimum amount of upgrades b) Ultimate gear's quality hasn't been reduced, but the upgrade potential has been increased at a cost of higher level reqs c) Ultimate gear is slightly rarer because the RNG for bonus levels now has points at which it becomes Ultimate+93 and 100. The unlikely case 3 is that Ultimate+ is entirely random, and the game just rolls dice to determine if an item gets +x levels and a higher level requirement. A DDDK update anytime soon would clear that up. We can hopefully expect one when the map contest's winner gets added to the game.
  10. So you're sayin that a monk gives a higher chance for ult ARMOR drops than the summoner? If so,all the better.Tower boost is wack. Number of characters and type of characters do not affect the RNG for item stats in any way. The only difference is how many items drop (number of characters in play) and what types of items drop (depending on the character classes in play). Because neither affect the RNG for stats, logically if you're looking specifically for armor, summoner's best, and ignore anybody who says otherwise. Consider: With summoner: 100 items drop All are armor RNG is normal With a monk: 100 items drop Some are armor, some are weapons RNG is normal Using only summoners gives more armor drops with the same RNG, which means more chances for good armor. Understand?
  11. Someone said the other day that genie attack caps as well. maybe the number was 10k? Genie doesn't cap, but it gets to the point where upgrades are better spent in hero stats than the genie's attack. Djinnlet caps on mana return, which may be what you're thinking of. Can't remember the number off the top of my head, but the mana from Djinnlets caps by the time the pet reaches 5k damage. Most things in the game don't cap; they just reach a point where the scaling is terrible.
  12. We've been told the Jester is the last hero that will be added to the game. That's not to say Trendy will never consider it (imagine the scenario where a modder creates a new hero so good that Trendy just has to implement it) But it's probably not going to happen any time soon. At this point Trendy announcing a new hero would result in shock and awe.
  13. Just checked the figures. Mix mode is a 0.038 increase to the wave modifier section of the loot multiplier. (Not a flat 3.8% - it's added to the map's personal scaler and the nightmare and hardcore bonuses) Works out to be about 7% increased multiplier on NMHC, though it's worth a bit more (relatively) without those modes. That's just with the default figures. Harder maps have different figures, but MM doesn't really go over 10% of the total multiplier.
  14. Rarities below Mythical are essentially based on the average RNG roll (the original 0-1 roll before multipliers) of the item rather than total stats. The closer the average roll to 0, the lower the quality tag. An item with +400 to 5 stats and -400 to 3 might not qualify for mythical, and in fact could be quite low on the scale from cursed to godly. Even if those stats were in perfect slots for a specific build. Fun stuff. Mythical+ stuff cares more about total stats than the average stat roll. Qualities below that are... quite odd in how they work, but they obviously worked fine before the introduction of super loot.
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