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[CONTEST] "Beat the ICL" Win 20 Cubes

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[quote]
I have a solution for everyone. If u think this is a scam then don't play. Who cries after losing coal or two really??
[/quote]

I'm only participating in this thread for the intellectual challenge and the chance to win 20 cubes :)

Anyway, I was going to post a massive explanation about entropy and a few holes in that code when I realized that it doesn't really matter, since if someone does break it; it the operators that loose out not the players. That was the point when I worked out the expected return for this lottery.

0.02% or 0.12% factoring in the jackpot bonus.

That is calculated from:
1 * 77 top prize (odds 1/14641) giving a jackpot return of 0.005 + 10% bonus
38 * 7 second price (odds 38/14641) giving a return of 0.018

This was done fairly quickly so I might have made a mistake somewhere, but from my maths assuming that it is in the ballpark of the correct figures, this lottery is very biased against its players. In comparison, the national lottery (UK) has a return of 0.51

My challenge: refute my argument above or arrange to pay me my 20 cubes :)

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0.02% or 0.12% factoring in the jackpot bonus.

That is calculated from:
1 * 77 top prize (odds 1/14641) giving a jackpot return of 0.005 + 10% bonus
38 * 7 second price (odds 38/14641) giving a return of 0.018

This was done fairly quickly so I might have made a mistake somewhere, but from my maths assuming that it is in the ballpark of the correct figures, this lottery is very biased against its players. In comparison, the national lottery (UK) has a return of 0.51

My challenge: refute my argument above or arrange to pay me my 20 cubes :)


http://www.easysurf.cc/lotodd.htm
1st prize 1/330
2nd prize 28/330

in 330 tickets is average:
1x77 + 28x7 + (30 in jackpot) = 303

with 10 cubes starter bonus was return ratio 1.13 (now it is 20 cubes, so it is higher)
source: http://dungeondefenders2.com/forum/showthread.php?99830-Incredible-Coal-Lottery-Update

And even if return was 0.00001, it is not proof that lottery is scam. Long term return is 0.92.
So 92% is going back. If I count all time for programming, all time what i have spent by sitting in the shop and talking, we are in negative numbers for very very long time. So meaning that this is successful business is quite bad :-(


Please tell me about the holes in code, i will appreciate it. Thanks

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I stand corrected on the odds, that's what i get for doing maths while driving home from work... forgot the order doesn't matter for a lottery.

I'll PM you when I've time regarding the 'holes' its a longish explanation

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I stand corrected on the odds, that's what i get for doing maths while driving home from work... forgot the order doesn't matter for a lottery.

I'll PM you when I've time regarding the 'holes' its a longish explanation


I want to see how this turns out before going furthere haha.

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I want to see how this turns out before going furthere haha.


weekend is over, i am back.
I think that it is turned out. If I am wrong, let me what I should answer or disprove.
Results from previus lines is this: It doesn't matter how we chosen winning numbers. We chose some and your goal is to guess it. If we had influence on some combinations it can have revenge on us. In other words: If our 1000days winnings numbers are not statistical correct it is our fault and your advantage. And we don't want that you will have advantage against us.

You can continue with other "how are we scamming?" questions or proofs.

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The only way i can see that this is a scam is if the numbers being generated are known by a party purchasing tickets or if the numbers are being changed to ensure no winner.

I don't have time to read all this but no matter how the numbers are drawn, as long as the method is unknown and complex it will be even. It doesn't matter how random the numbers are, if they are less random and a pattern exists then this is an advantage against the house. However one way to counter this would be to generate numbers using different algorithms each set period of time.

This lottery comes down to a trust decision, all the information is available and if you decide that it is fair, and that the numbers are being generated by a bias entity(algorithm, random number drawn from a hat w/e) then i see no problem

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The only way i can see that this is a scam is if the numbers being generated are known by a party purchasing tickets or if the numbers are being changed to ensure no winner.

We have fixed prizes, so it doesn't matter if we tell numbers to third party or not. This was perfect true when we haven't got starter bonus and jackpot. Now the prizes are not really fixed and they are increasing over time. So it would have sense when we tell winning numbers to other player. We can call him Bob for example. And Alice will be stand as standart player. Why it is not true in our case (from look of winning of starter bonus). Because every bet has a time stamp. If Alice submitted numbers which would win 1st prize, then next submit of Bob with same numbers will be later than Alice's. It is not possible to submit Bob's ticket sooner than Alice's ticket. Because we don't know which Alice will submit 1st prize winning ticket and therefore it would be wasting of lottery decoy/attaction (20 cubes). Lottery attraction bonus should decoy new players. And we don't want to spend it by fake player (Bob). This text is not proof for spreading or not spreading winning numbers to fake players or friends. But there was time when it hadn't sense to do it. But we can't earn some coal by spreading winning numbers so it is highly impossible to fake this lottery this way. All past tickets are published, so it would be fun if you see there 100 tickets and 20 of them are 1st prize win. Then we would be in 1400 in negative balance and it really bad bussines... we would be in bankcrupcy and no lottery would be here today. Anyway if this is main problem in lottery, we can cut off the starter bonus and jackpots and then we will see if using of lottery will be increasing every day by ten :)

I don't have time to read all this but no matter how the numbers are drawn, as long as the method is unknown and complex it will be even. It doesn't matter how random the numbers are, if they are less random and a pattern exists then this is an advantage against the house. However one way to counter this would be to generate numbers using different algorithms each set period of time.

This lottery comes down to a trust decision, all the information is available and if you decide that it is fair, and that the numbers are being generated by a bias entity(algorithm, random number drawn from a hat w/e) then i see no problem


true. If we have no trust, there would be no business. We published all stuffs (all tickets, all information) what we could. Because we know that trust is the base of success. And as i wrote in other threads. We have spent a lot of hours by programming, creating web site, sitting in shop and explaining... So now it is more hobby like business.

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I didn't read all of it, I don't honestly care, but here's a suggestion for extra transparency:

1. Set a date and time where the number would be picked.
2. Go live on a Twitch stream
3. Go to http://www.random.org/ or http://www.random.org/quick-pick/
4. Generate the numbers live, on stream.
5. Declare the winner(s) live on stream.

Doesn't get more transparent and fair than that.

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I didn't read all of it, I don't honestly care...

That it the main problem.. people dont read, so they cant understand how does it work. If you will read it, you will realize that:
1. date and time is set
2. we dont draw numbers
3. we dont draw numbers
4. we dont draw numbers
5. all our winners are public known

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That it the main problem.. people dont read, so they cant understand how does it work. If you will read it, you will realize that:
1. date and time is set
2. we dont draw numbers
3. we dont draw numbers
4. we dont draw numbers
5. all our winners are public known


I would think the main problem is your "2. 3. and 4"... People are asking for transparency, my suggestion is a way to get transparency. Let people know how you pick the winners and pick your winners right in front of them, live. It doesn't get more transparent than that.

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I would think the main problem is your "2. 3. and 4"... People are asking for transparency, my suggestion is a way to get transparency. Let people know how you pick the winners and pick your winners right in front of them, live. It doesn't get more transparent than that.


I agree with this. 100%.

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Odds of winning the jackpot with 1 ticket... 1/7920 or roughly 0.0126%
I get this result from this equation... 11*10*9*8=7920 (number of possible combination)

Odds of winning a prize with 1 ticket... 1/990 or roughly 0.1%
I get this result from this equation... 11*10*9=990 (number of possible combination)

Not sure if its intended or you just didn't calculate it the same way. :?
Also, I don't see how, with these numbers, your system.statistics.txt data is true. Just seems unrealistic imo.
exemple: on 195 tickets, 17 had the exact same 4 numbers & that # was the jackpot?!


Other facts that need to be taken into consideration...
-Tickets are only valid for 1 draw/day(once activated).
-You can have as many tickets with the same numbers as you want.
-Other players can have the same numbers as you.


Imo, the lottery is safe & fun but far from fair.


Did I win? :)



P.S. I do/did read your informations & honestly care a bit about it since I like the concept & see that a lot of work has been put into it. Just saying what I though had to be said. Thank you for reading.

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I didn't read all of it, I don't honestly care, but here's a suggestion for extra transparency:

1. Set a date and time where the number would be picked.
2. Go live on a Twitch stream
3. Go to http://www.random.org/ or http://www.random.org/quick-pick/
4. Generate the numbers live, on stream.
5. Declare the winner(s) live on stream.

Doesn't get more transparent and fair than that.


A, I will not make theater for you everyday by starting live stream. I don't have time for it. It is not automatic process. Please try it doing everyday. We well see if you then find any other random generator...
B, What if my internet went down? Now i can process past tickets one week later when i am back from vacation it will be the same as it would be the next day after their bet.
C, read lines below:
It doesn't matter how random the numbers are, if they are less random and a pattern exists then this is an advantage against the house.

That is the correct sight for it.
I really don't understand how it helps you if you have more transparency. Will you start playing? Will you start winning? Will you start loosing? Will you start what? Or question from other side. What do you think that we made with pregenerated numbers?



Odds of winning the jackpot with 1 ticket... 1/7920 or roughly 0.0126%
I get this result from this equation... 11*10*9*8=7920 (number of possible combination)

Odds of winning a prize with 1 ticket... 1/990 or roughly 0.1%
I get this result from this equation... 11*10*9=990 (number of possible combination)

Please learn something about combinations - No repetition.
Correct odds here


Not sure if its intended or you just didn't calculate it the same way. :?
Also, I don't see how, with these numbers, your system.statistics.txt data is true. Just seems unrealistic imo.
exemple: on 195 tickets, 17 had the exact same 4 numbers & that # was the jackpot?!

:-) what?
source links:
Past Coal tickets
System Statistics
what is bad? please explain.

Other facts that need to be taken into consideration...
-Tickets are only valid for 1 draw/day(once activated).
-You can have as many tickets with the same numbers as you want.
-Other players can have the same numbers as you.

Don't know if this is bad or good. I mean your opinion.
I think that it is good. Or explain...

Imo, the lottery is safe & fun but far from fair.


Did I win? :)

It is safe, fun and FAIR. (i think it was set to unfair because you calculated the odds wrong)


P.S. I do/did read your informations & honestly care a bit about it since I like the concept & see that a lot of work has been put into it. Just saying what I though had to be said. Thank you for reading.

Thank you for writting too.

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Please learn something about combinations - No repetition.
Correct odds here


Sorry, made my odds starting from a real lottery...

In a typical 6/49 game, six numbers are drawn from a range of 49 and if the six numbers on a ticket match the numbers drawn, the ticket holder is a jackpot winner—this is true no matter in which order the numbers appear. The probability of this happening is 1 in 13,983,816.
This small chance of winning can be demonstrated as follows:
Starting with a bag of 49 differently-numbered lottery balls, there are 49 different but equally likely ways of choosing the number of the first ball selected from the bag, and so there is a 1 in 49 chance of predicting the number correctly. When the draw comes to the second number, there are now only 48 balls left in the bag (because the balls already drawn are not returned to the bag) so there is now a 1 in 48 chance of predicting this number.
Thus for each of the 49 ways of choosing the first number there are 48 different ways of choosing the second. This means that the probability of correctly predicting 2 numbers drawn from 49 in the correct order is calculated as 1 in 49 48. On drawing the third number there are only 47 ways of choosing the number; but of course we could have gotten to this point in any of 49 48 ways, so the chances of correctly predicting 3 numbers drawn from 49, again in the correct order, is 1 in 49 48 47. This continues until the sixth number has been drawn, giving the final calculation, 49 48 47 46 45 44, which can also be written as {49!\over (49-6)!}.

I'm not calculating the odds of winning... I'm just calculating the odds of hitting the jackpot with 1 ticket.

:-) what?
source links:
Past Coal tickets
System Statistics
what is bad? please explain.


How is it possible to have 17 jackpot tickets on 195 tickets. Unless you used a flawed random number generator?
That's bad even if you follow your odds(on 330 possible combination, 17/195 was the correct 1/330 one?!) or mine(wont put the # :P).


Don't know if this is bad or good. I mean your opinion.
I think that it is good. Or explain...

I think it goes both ways, I'll explain...
In 1 day, 100 players could get 100 tickets with exactly the same numbers. 1 combination would lose/win/jackpot? 100 times. That's what I meant.


It is safe, fun and FAIR. (i think it was set to unfair because you calculated the odds wrong)

Thank you for writting too.



I still think my odds are correct. I might be mistaking, I'm human.

Unless you show me why my equation is wrong, I think I've won this contest. :)


P.S. Doing this for the fun of the contest(not the reward). I kinda love to do maths. :p

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I would think the main problem is your "2. 3. and 4"... People are asking for transparency, my suggestion is a way to get transparency. Let people know how you pick the winners and pick your winners right in front of them, live. It doesn't get more transparent than that.

I would think the main problem is you dont read this. This is not classic lottery. we dont draw numbers every day.. numbers for all days are already set. Your goal is choose the same numbers for specific day. It is normal that xxxxx22 agree with you, because he dont read it too or he cant understand it. You say at the beginning you "dont honestly care how does it work".. so I was not bother to explain you anything. All was written here many time. We think it is transparent enough, people just must take our information and know how to use it. It is the reason for this contest. I will write it again.. Normal players dont need to understand how does it work. They need just thrust us, BUT, if they have knowledge to use public information, they can easy track every lottery step. Just try post here 4 numbers for todays "draw", and we can explain to you tomorrow how we process it. It is really easy, but example is the best way.

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I would think the main problem is you dont read this. This is not classic lottery. we dont draw numbers every day.. numbers for all days are already set. Your goal is choose the same numbers for specific day.[delete from here to here]. You say at the beginning you "dont honestly care how does it work".. so I was not bother to explain you anything. All was written here many time. We think it is transparent enough, people just must take our information and know how to use it. It is the reason for this contest. I will write it again.. Normal players dont need to understand how does it work. They need just thrust us, BUT, if they have knowledge to use public information, they can easy track every lottery step. Just try post here 4 numbers for todays "draw", and we can explain to you tomorrow how we process it. It is really easy, but example is the best way.


I certainly don't appreciate your backhanded comment. Edit or I'll report it.

I've removed it from my quote to make it easy for you.

I do understand how you are "running" this operation, and let me tell you mate; if your contest was transparent and fair, you wouldn't have so many people questioning your ways.

This is not a lottery. No lottery has pre-determined results and thus by Australian standards would be illegal if this was real and for money.

Here is another way I think you could improve your system to be transparent:


I see that you and Loki are not too bad with web design. What if you created a web page that drew winning numbers at a pre-determined time every day. Customers submit their numbers to you and they are automatically updated to the website. After the draw winners are shown on your website.

Effectively you could track all entries openly. I see this as a more transparent way of doing your business and making it a proper lottery.

As always, best of luck to you both.

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Sorry, made my odds starting from a real lottery...

In a typical 6/49 game, six numbers are drawn from a range of 49 and if the six numbers on a ticket match the numbers drawn, the ticket holder is a jackpot winnerthis is true no matter in which order the numbers appear. The probability of this happening is 1 in 13,983,816.
This small chance of winning can be demonstrated as follows:
Starting with a bag of 49 differently-numbered lottery balls, there are 49 different but equally likely ways of choosing the number of the first ball selected from the bag, and so there is a 1 in 49 chance of predicting the number correctly. When the draw comes to the second number, there are now only 48 balls left in the bag (because the balls already drawn are not returned to the bag) so there is now a 1 in 48 chance of predicting this number.
Thus for each of the 49 ways of choosing the first number there are 48 different ways of choosing the second. This means that the probability of correctly predicting 2 numbers drawn from 49 in the correct order is calculated as 1 in 49 48. On drawing the third number there are only 47 ways of choosing the number; but of course we could have gotten to this point in any of 49 48 ways, so the chances of correctly predicting 3 numbers drawn from 49, again in the correct order, is 1 in 49 48 47. This continues until the sixth number has been drawn, giving the final calculation, 49 48 47 46 45 44, which can also be written as {49!\over (49-6)!}.

I'm not calculating the odds of winning... I'm just calculating the odds of hitting the jackpot with 1 ticket.


:-) still not reading my posts. as you want. i will write it again and again.
In lottery where is drawing numbers you NOT GUESSING correct order of drawed numbers.
e.g. if drawed numbers were 1,2,3,4 or 4,3,2,1 or 4,1,3,2... it is the same, so you need to divide your possibilities by 4! so it is 11*10*9*8/(4*3*2*1)=330 for first prize (you are calling it jackpot)
visit odds calculator
Enter TOTAL number of balls in the drawing: 11
Enter number of balls SELECTED: 4
Enter number of Winning Numbers Matched: 4
Odds are 1 in 330 combinations = 1

Beated

How is it possible to have 17 jackpot tickets on 195 tickets. Unless you used a flawed random number generator?
That's bad even if you follow your odds(on 330 possible combination, 17/195 was the correct 1/330 one?!) or mine(wont put the # :P).

and this is proof that here is people who is trying to beat us, and even don't read our lottery page: icl.loksa.sk
from web page: Jackpot is created from non-winning tickets. One coal is added to Jackpot every ten non-winning ticket.
It is added to 1st prize of next day.
simple math: Lost tickets: 173
>>> Jackpot: 17 <<<
Beated

I think it goes both ways, I'll explain...
In 1 day, 100 players could get 100 tickets with exactly the same numbers. 1 combination would lose/win/jackpot? 100 times. That's what I meant.

the same about reading our page.
we are emiting only tickets. players/users/gamblers is choosing THEIR numbers. If they want to buy 10 tickets and use all his tickets to same combination 1,2,3,4 it is his choice. maybe he will win 10x first prize, maybe 10x 2nd prize, or loose all.
Beated


I still think my odds are correct. I might be mistaking, I'm human.
Unless you show me why my equation is wrong, I think I've won this contest. :)

Beated

P.S. Doing this for the fun of the contest(not the reward). I kinda love to do maths. :p

I like whose is doing it for fun. But I am that side too, so I have fun right now :)
Beated

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This is not a lottery. No lottery has pre-determined results and thus by Australian standards would be illegal if this was real and for money.

are we fighting about words?
Should i rename it to "Incredible betting game" "Incredible Coal Dice" or "guess our past Incredible numbers", or "put your Incredible name here" :-D
Similar system of preddefined numbers is used in SatoshiDice
past private keys: http://www.satoshidice.com/secretlist.php
all hashes of keys for 10 years: http://www.satoshidice.com/static/hash.keys
there is turning a big money and nobody cares about preddefined private keys (our case is winning numbers). That betting game have huge trust, and also they needed to start with zero trust at beginning.
To the description. They call it "betting game" because you are betting to how low is "lucky number". If you bet that it is below 32000, then you have chance 50/50 and you can win 2x your bet. If you choose that your lucky number is below 16, you can win 4000x your bet. What is lucky number read Verification page and find it at the bottom.
And because you can't have influence to your lucky number it is called "betting game". In our Lottery you HAVE influence on your 4 numbers, so it is Lottery. If you have strong arguments i can take it in my mind if you persuade Satoshidice to change their preddefined numbers system, because you don't like when numbers were generated ahead of time...


Here is another way I think you could improve your system to be transparent:


I see that you and Loki are not too bad with web design. What if you created a web page that drew winning numbers at a pre-determined time every day. Customers submit their numbers to you and they are automatically updated to the website. After the draw winners are shown on your website.

Effectively you could track all entries openly. I see this as a more transparent way of doing your business and making it a proper lottery.

As always, best of luck to you both.


I am not good at web design. It is static pages (powered by google sites), as you can see the dynamic data is uploaded to dropbox.
But if the customer submitted the bet. And i received email that somebody submitted ticket, then I am sending confirmation email to him, and it is published to this page. I can't do it automatically. Because reading data from web form sheet is not automatic proces. And also here is not still powered PC which would do it. So i am doing it when i am online by CTRL+C, CTRL+V to my program which process everything. So this transparency were added at the beginning of lottery. We aren't hiddin anything. You can still check ALL past tickets and all past drawings and test what you want. Later if there will be 10.000 tickets i will prune old. But now it is good if we aren't pruning data.

And to the changing our 1000 days winning numbers. We will not change it and don't make any theater like: live stream, live drawing from hat etc. it can be faked. and it is more untrusted system than it is now.

Thanks for luck.

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are we fighting about words?
Should i rename it to "Incredible betting game" "Incredible Coal Dice" or "guess our past Incredible numbers", or "put your Incredible name here" :-D
Similar system of preddefined numbers is used in SatoshiDice
past private keys: http://www.satoshidice.com/secretlist.php
all hashes of keys for 10 years: http://www.satoshidice.com/static/hash.keys
there is turning a big money and nobody cares about preddefined private keys (our case is winning numbers). That betting game have huge trust, and also they needed to start with zero trust at beginning.
To the description. They call it "betting game" because you are betting to how low is "lucky number". If you bet that it is below 32000, then you have chance 50/50 and you can win 2x your bet. If you choose that your lucky number is below 16, you can win 4000x your bet. What is lucky number read Verification page and find it at the bottom.
And because you can't have influence to your lucky number it is called "betting game". In our Lottery you HAVE influence on your 4 numbers, so it is Lottery. If you have strong arguments i can take it in my mind if you persuade Satoshidice to change their preddefined numbers system, because you don't like when numbers were generated ahead of time...




I am not good at web design. It is static pages (powered by google sites), as you can see the dynamic data is uploaded to dropbox.
But if the customer submitted the bet. And i received email that somebody submitted ticket, then I am sending confirmation email to him, and it is published to this page. I can't do it automatically. Because reading data from web form sheet is not automatic proces. And also here is not still powered PC which would do it. So i am doing it when i am online by CTRL+C, CTRL+V to my program which process everything. So this transparency were added at the beginning of lottery. We aren't hiddin anything. You can still check ALL past tickets and all past drawings and test what you want. Later if there will be 10.000 tickets i will prune old. But now it is good if we aren't pruning data.

And to the changing our 1000 days winning numbers. We will not change it and don't make any theater like: live stream, live drawing from hat etc. it can be faked. and it is more untrusted system than it is now.

Thanks for luck.


To say that live streaming the draw of numbers is a more untrusted system than us just giving you trust based on your word is complete hypocrisy and cements my view that something smells here.

Your math is good, but you seem to want to stick to your pre-determined list of numbers that you made up. This just isn't fair in my books and I guess a lot of others too.

If you want more people to play you need to understand your customers wants. Simple business.

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:-) still not reading my posts. as you want. i will write it again and again.
In lottery where is drawing numbers you NOT GUESSING correct order of drawed numbers.
e.g. if drawed numbers were 1,2,3,4 or 4,3,2,1 or 4,1,3,2... it is the same, so you need to divide your possibilities by 4! so it is 11*10*9*8/(4*3*2*1)=330 for first prize (you are calling it jackpot)
visit odds calculator
Enter TOTAL number of balls in the drawing: 11
Enter number of balls SELECTED: 4
Enter number of Winning Numbers Matched: 4
Odds are 1 in 330 combinations = 1
Beated


and this is proof that here is people who is trying to beat us, and even don't read our lottery page: icl.loksa.sk
from web page: Jackpot is created from non-winning tickets. One coal is added to Jackpot every ten non-winning ticket.
It is added to 1st prize of next day.
simple math: Lost tickets: 173
>>> Jackpot: 17 <<<
Beated


the same about reading our page.
we are emiting only tickets. players/users/gamblers is choosing THEIR numbers. If they want to buy 10 tickets and use all his tickets to same combination 1,2,3,4 it is his choice. maybe he will win 10x first prize, maybe 10x 2nd prize, or loose all.

I like whose is doing it for fun. But I am that side too, so I have fun right now :)
Beated


Your right about the odds. Now I guess I'll have to prove its unfair based on your odds. :p

1/330= 0.30303030%
28/330= 8.48484848%

So every tickets has 8.78787878% chance of winning imo? Or 91.21212121% chance of losing?

I don't see how you find that fair or how you get that 92% return ratio... 92% return ratio is only possible if everyday, ppl buy 1 of each of the 330 combinations available(not more then one of each combinations & also not missing any). The moment 2 tickets with the same # is made or if you dont have a full 330 tickets day, the 92% long term return doesn't apply anymore.


For your statistics, I read them wrong i guess.
on 195 tickets, 22 tickets won(?? normal prize, ??jackpot) the 172 losing tickets make the jackpot raise by 17(I tho 17 on 22 winning tickets had the jackpot #).

odds of winning showed here...

22/195= 11.28205128%
(assuming its all normal wins)22*7(coal)=154 coal+(17 bonus coal)
total coal given=171(17 bonus coal will be added/given to the next jackpot winner)
coal given/taken=171/195
87.69230769% is your long term return in this situation. (not 92%)

Finally, for your lottery to be fair imo, you would need to make a few changes.

-everyday, create a limited # of tickets.
-everyday, determine a 1st & 2nd place within the sold tickets. (prize could vary depending on the # of sold tickets/ this is to balance your long term return)

-I would also remove the 92% long term return since its theoretically incorrect.
-Atm, the lottery is more about making a LOT of loser & 1(maybe) very lucky big winner. Don't get me wrong, winning 77 times & 7 times your bet is pretty cool but seems too high imo. Usually, the higher the base rewards are, the lower the odds of winning.



Tell me if I'm mistaking in any ways.

In the end, its gonna come down to you to know if its fair/unfair.

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To say that live streaming the draw of numbers is a more untrusted system than us just giving you trust based on your word is complete hypocrisy and cements my view that something smells here.

Ok, lets imagine that i have live stream everyday at exact time.
Then i will create same contest to beat that "live ICL".
Then some smart guy will come and ask:
1, how can i proof that stream what is in the live stream is not faked live stream?
2, how can i proof that if nobody watched my stream then the recored numbers are not faked?
3, What happened when no internet connection was available during time of drawing?

Your math is good, but you seem to want to stick to your pre-determined list of numbers that you made up. This just isn't fair in my books and I guess a lot of others too.

If you want more people to play you need to understand your customers wants. Simple business.


Please tell me why my numbers is not fair? What is wrong with them?
Now we know:
- I can't change them. It is secured by control sum, and control sum is published when lottery started and it is digitally signed that it was created before 15th of may 2013.
- if numbers are not from any pseudo random generator, or numbers would have not good statistical values, then is advantage of players. We minimized this issue by creating good statistical winning numbers, check web site for past drawings.
- It doesn't matter if i process winning numbers minute after new betting day started, or one week. Principe is same and i can't change who wont and who lost.

There is a lot of customers. Me or you can't make product what will be liked by all humans (100%).
It doesn't mean that if you don't like it then all need to not like it.
I think that you are in 10% group who don't like me, our lottery, everything what is different...

When we will finish this contest, you will increase second group from 90% to 95% :-D

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TBH here its really hard to have a contest based on beating someone's opinion. I am basing this from what I have read thus far and all I see is players and the OP's bickering back and forth about who's opinion is right regardless of whatever evidence either side brings to the table. At this point it seems more of a stalemate and I personally do not see this coming to any conclusion. Its awesome that the OP's are trying something new and with starting something new you will always have trials and errors before something concrete works best for both parties. Good luck to the OP's and hope that you guys can figure out a way to improve on your lottery because tbh you guys still have many things to work out, mainly providing a better solution to ease the minds of the community.

/Closed

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