So Trendy Entertainment seems to be a terrible place to work.

This won't help Trendy employees. They need support, not rejection.

No need for us to make harsh comments or take definitive decisions today. See how Trendy react. Most of us were not planning to spend money in the moba part of the game, this won't change. The coop isn't due in the next 6 months, maybe more. We'll see then if the game is any good and if the people at Trendy are working as a team again.

No need to act like the thousands of people who boycott Electronic Arts except when they fancy one of their games.

Yes, it will help Trendy employees. Something has to give if an effective boycott is cutting into business, and given the current situation, the obvious thing to give would be one single job. Consumers have only ONE way of effecting change in the companies that patronize, and this is it. If you don't speak with your wallet, you don't speak at all. If you don't speak at all about this, then you're giving Stieglitz the ok to keep abusing employees, all in the name of helping them keep an abusive job. If you DO speak, you might effect change, and make it so they aren't working under such horrible conditions that they can't pay their respects to a dead relative. Complacent attitudes get nothing done, unless you count a building in India collapsing on a bunch of employees getting something done. Those people lost their jobs too, you know; and more.

There is absolutely no excuse for what Stieglitz has done to his talented employees. From what I've read, he treats them more like slaves though.

I posted this thread with the hope of making the DD community aware of the way Stieglitz is treating the DD staff / IP. With almost 6,666 views on this thread, and 52 upvotes in 24 hours alone, I think i've made a small dent. Word of mouth will spread the story and eventually pressure will (Hopefully) force Stieglitz to resign.

So maybe one day Trendy can get the boss they deserve, and not have to put up with this.

Well, I hope the article is not true, because it does sound bad. But as outsiders trying to look in... It's hard to tell. Based on the interaction on the forums by the employees, the company seems to be in good shape.

Now, in the case the article is true, I am no in no way defending the informal policies. In fact, if true, there is nothing to defend except for a law suite in a court.


Having said all that, and me being an 'old' person here. Not every thing is peachy and golden in the business world, especially in running a small start up company. Jeremy looks like a young guy, and to run a 45+ employee company at his age is a huge accomplishment. It is also very stressful. I ran a couple businesses myself, and there's a lot of aspects that non-proprietors will understand.

For instance, let's talk about profits. Let's cut the costs down to the obvious basics. First and foremost, salaries. To keep it simple, let's say everyone in the company made 50k a year. I am sure some make 20k, and some make way over 50k depending on the skill sets and responsibilities. At 50k a year with 40 employees, you have a personnel budget of 2,000,000$ a year. Throw in bonuses and what not, it goes higher. So, just to cover 2mil a year... How many copies do you have to sell? Well the price on the game changes from sale to sale, so let's just say it averages 20$ per game (with DLC's).

You will have to 100,000 copies of the game just to cover the personnel budget. But, wait. That if Trendy collects all 20$ from the sale. Steam takes a cut as well.

Personnel is not the only expenses. There is the cost of... leasing an office, running the servers, unreal engine licensing, dev computers, utilities, taxes, workers comp, unemployment, advertising, plane tickets to pax east, free prizes, and the list goes on.

I have no idea how many copies of the game is sold. A lot of them on sale for like 5 bucks. As a boss, trying to take that 5 dollars, and feeding 45 mouths... on a slow month can start to have a stressful effect on you.

That 18mil investment is probably enough to cover 2~3 years of operating expenses...


Having said all that, as a proprietor, you must keep a straight head and push through the tough times and come out on top. That makes the difference between a success story or a failure story.


Personally, I don't really care about the MOBA business. While I hope it succeeds, it's not the reason why I played DD1, and I hope I am not forced to play it to get some achievements for the coop aspects of DD2. DD1 had been one of my favorite games of all time due to it's awesome mix of tower defense and FPS. If indeed there are internal problems (and there always will be to a certain degree at any given company), I hope that Trendy as a whole can push through the rough times.

Peace.


(Now release that new DLC...)

Well, I hope the article is not true, because it does sound bad. But as outsiders trying to look in... It's hard to tell. Based on the interaction on the forums by the employees, the company seems to be in good shape.

I would tend to believe the article is more accurate that not. For one they had direct quotes and specific instances and everything, so if Kotaku falsified anything then they're in for one hell of a lawsuit. Second, none of the employees who have forum accounts have posted in this topic to defend Stieglitz. There's a difference between simply being a tough boss and a tyrant, and if it were the former I would have expected to see at least one Trendy employee step in and say that the story is not true or at least wildly exaggerated.

Trendy, why so serious?

This is what happens when you give us a mode we never asked for.

If I wanted to play a MOBA I will play League of Legends. Not some half *** clone of it.

Focus on the co-op section of the game, if there is even to be a game now. DD2 co-op has my interest not some wanna be MOBA.

All up that's pretty disgusting to read those things. I'm glad I quit DD awhile back.

You could not not have phrased that more accurately. These are my exact feelings toward this.

I'm not sure which to be sickened by more, the way Stieglitz has been running Trendy, or the people in here who are automatically apologizing on his behalf, and rationalizing why this type of behavior might have been excusable. You're making up excuses and placing undue virtue on someone you don't know because you enjoy the product that the company he's running created, all so you can continue to get your tower defense on without feeling guilty. Well you should feel guilty if you're going to willfully ignore this and continue to give this company money while Stieglitz is still a part of it. No product is that good. You should also feel thoroughly ashamed if you sat in here and said anything like "Well the women must not have been as qualified.", or "I'm gonna pretend I didn't see this." I didn't like the news when I heard it either, and I dreaded the idea of not being able to buy new packs or DD2 (which I now don't care about anyway since I'm a DD fan, and not a LoL fan), but I'm not going to create a narrative of fantasies to replace the one that makes me uncomfortable. At the end of the day, there are plenty of other games to play.

The only thing worse than the cause, is the silence.

Tribilism. I've noticed anyone in the beta who was granted the title of Tester now shares those exact tribalistic tendencies you just described. It's sad, but it happens in all facets of society. I've only noticed maybe one person from that community speak out about this so far.

Almost all of them are silent. Shameful.

If this is true then i hope Jeremy is so embarrassed that he'll call in sick for a month, On the other hand, I think the root of all of this is that he has lost his spark, He's under a lot of pressure caused by financial bogus and thus has become depressed, And to add salt to the wound; He doesn't have the necessary leader skills or know-how for such a large group and naturally goes into kim-jong-un-mode.

A loss of an employee in a manufacturing/producing industry is more than just that: "losing an employee". You're losing time, money, knowledge, respect and trust from those who are still with you; The more you lose the more will follow. I hope to see an official statement from Jeremy about this matter and if it's true then i'd also like to know how he's going to change these working conditions. After all; If the producers aren't feeling good, Then the product they are creating won't be good.


@The rest of Trendy, I hope this gets solved as soon as possible.

The only thing worse than the cause, is the silence.

Tribilism. I've noticed anyone in the beta who was granted the title of Tester now shares those exact tribalistic tendencies you just described. It's sad, but it happens in all facets of society. I've only noticed maybe one person from that community speak out about this so far.

Almost all of them are silent. Shameful.

Actually, I think the best thing to do, is to talk to the investors. I'm sending an email to Insight Venture and letting them know my thoughts on the matter, and explaining to them that if they don't investigate this matter and take action on it, then Trendy has lost me as a customer and consequently their investment is worth less. It could make a difference if enough people send them emails.

I don't think it's all true. The article sounds like angry x employees and a bored kotaku sensationalist writer... Even Jeremy's wife made a comment.

Did it occur to anyone that the investors may have told Mr. Stieglitz he isn't allowed to respond? Also he's not even the CEO... doesn't the CEO make hiring decision and salary decisions? If anyone is sexist it's not the head programmer/technical director... it's the business people like the ceo and the investors This other guy is the CEO.

He's under a lot of pressure caused by financial bogus

Maybe the huge number of posts complaining about bugs/hackers/unbalanced DLCs/lack of console port/lack of support for the game/The RNG/other random stuff is adding to the pressure. Not a surprise someone so young can't stand it. A couple of month off should really be the solution in that case. That would mean he understands what he has done and try to improve in the future.

If he's really a bad guy, he'll just try to know who spoke to kotaku and sack them/make them leave. We'll see.

(I don't mean any of this is the fault of the community, I mean that the high expectations of a huge community are putting pressure on people as much as financial issues. Not every videogame company manager is a tyrant, nor called a tyrant by its employees)

I don't think it's all true

We will never know what is really true in all this. All that is certain is that a number of employees are complaining. You're right, we'll see what the CEO says.

I don't think it's all true. The article sounds like angry x employees and a bored kotaku sensationalist writer...

[quote]If anyone is sexist it's not the head programmer/technical director... it's the business people like the ceo and the investors This other guy is the CEO.[/QUOTE]

Right, so you're somehow able to judge that the stories of several employees which appear to be consistent with each other aren't true, and then you pass the blame onto "business people" like the CEO whose name had not come up once in any of the grievances.

And CEO's do delegate responsibilities such as hiring, so nothing you say has any merit.

You're right CEO's do delegate responsibilities... but what proof is there that is was to Mr. Stieglitz? Or that the complaints of these several employees in the article were not made up by the author? Just saying that something doesn't smell right. No names, no facts in the article.

I understand why no current employees who spoke with the author would give their name, but what about the former Trendy employees? If these things were true they would be taking legal action against Trendy, and could certainly give their name and previous title at the company to Kotaku. Not like they have to worry about being fired... they don't work at Trendy anymore. And an NDA wouldn't be relevant as an NDA wouldn't cover anything concerning gender prejudice in the workplace. An NDA would only cover information pertaining to what they worked on.

I'm not saying Mr. Stieglitz is not guilty of anything, but all of this just doesn't add up. You could easily insert the name of any studio director or other management person from another company into the article and it would work just like a mad lib game. There is nothing to show that any of it is true. So yea I stand neutral about this guy and his office practices.

The game on the other hand... that is another story entirely.

You're right CEO's do delegate responsibilities... but what proof is there that is was to Mr. Stieglitz? Or that the complaints of these several employees in the article were not made up by the author? Just saying that something doesn't smell right. No names, no facts in the article.

I understand why no current employees who spoke with the author would give their name, but what about the former Trendy employees? If these things were true they would be taking legal action against Trendy, and could certainly give their name and previous title at the company to Kotaku. Not like they have to worry about being fired... they don't work at Trendy anymore. And an NDA wouldn't be relevant as an NDA wouldn't cover anything concerning gender prejudice in the workplace. An NDA would only cover information pertaining to what they worked on.

I'm not saying Mr. Stieglitz is not guilty of anything, but all of this just doesn't add up. You could easily insert the name of any studio director or other management person from another company into the article and it would work just like a mad lib game. There is nothing to show that any of it is true. So yea I stand neutral about this guy and his office practices.

The game on the other hand... that is another story entirely.

They have direct quotes and testimony from several sources. To make up something like that is a huge deal, and Kotaku can get into serious trouble if it is. I give the author credit enough for not blatantly lying like that to bring a huge lawsuit onto his company. These are very serious allegations and there seems to be enough there to make them worth investigating.

but what proof is there that is was to Mr. Stieglitz?
I understand why no current employees who spoke with the author would give their name, but what about the former Trendy employees?

Kotaku is an established website and has everything to lose in such a thing. Their journalist must be convinced he is right.
The employees don't want to give their name because that might compromise they career. Even if they have left Trendy already. They don't want their name on the internet linked to a story complaining about their boss, or their former boss.
Also, they may not be 100% objective, but they have no reasons to be lying. They actually had every reasons to stay silent, so if they speak, the core of the accusations must be partly true (for the least).

So what is exactly hell on earth?

Some would say it is working in construction pouring cement - lifting heavy forms, pounding 2 1/2 pound sledge harmmers for hours at time into stakes. Lifting, moving, removing, heavy forms again for hours at a time.

Some would say it is being the garbage man sitting in a truck all day running robotics picking up 600 - 800 cans of trash every day.

Some would say it is being a nurse in a nursing home dealing with old people who can't control the simpliest of life's daily stresses the body can no longer hold or maintain.

Some would say it is working at a young start up company making video games. Not every job or career is meant for some people.

I know people from all the walks of the life listed above and they all love what they do. Not every moment of every day but overall it is what it is and they love it.

Regarding the sexiest factor that the article is playing up - Think about this would Abe Lincoln even be considered today for a presidential position today. Look at the music industry during the 50-60's it wasn't how you looked it was if you had talent. Today for a break in the music industry you must have the looks first and talent secondary.

DD and life can both be a grind when you push to hard to meet some imaginary goal that you want to meet at all costs by some set time. This is when you take a step back decide weither you want to enjoy the ride and take some time view some the beutiful scenery in life, or keep grinding all the while being miserable in the process. Happiness is a choice.

Trendy still rocks in my humble opionion - Thanks for a great game.

I don't think it's all true. The article sounds like angry x employees and a bored kotaku sensationalist writer... Even Jeremy's wife made a comment.

Did it occur to anyone that the investors may have told Mr. Stieglitz he isn't allowed to respond? Also he's not even the CEO... doesn't the CEO make hiring decision and salary decisions? If anyone is sexist it's not the head programmer/technical director... it's the business people like the ceo and the investors This other guy is the CEO.

Someone in a position of authority needs to respond publicly to these allegations. Soon.

Your post count isn't helping your credibility.

So what is exactly hell on earth?

Some would say it is working in construction pouring cement - lifting heavy forms, pounding 2 1/2 pound sledge harmmers for hours at time into stakes. Lifting, moving, removing, heavy forms again for hours at a time.

Some would say it is being the garbage man sitting in a truck all day running robotics picking up 600 - 800 cans of trash every day.

Some would say it is being a nurse in a nursing home dealing with old people who can't control the simpliest of life's daily stresses the body can no longer hold or maintain.

Some would say it is working at a young start up company making video games. Not every job or career is meant for some people.

I know people from all the walks of the life listed above and they all love what they do. Not every moment of every day but overall it is what it is and they love it.

Regarding the sexiest factor that the article is playing up - Think about this would Abe Lincoln even be considered today for a presidential position today. Look at the music industry during the 50-60's it wasn't how you looked it was if you had talent. Today for a break in the music industry you must have the looks first and talent secondary.

DD and life can both be a grind when you push to hard to meet some imaginary goal that you want to meet at all costs by some set time. This is when you take a step back decide weither you want to enjoy the ride and take some time view some the beutiful scenery in life, or keep grinding all the while being miserable in the process. Happiness is a choice.

Trendy still rocks in my humble opionion - Thanks for a great game.

I don't understand exactly what point, if any, you were trying to make with that. A job that is physically demanding like construction, or emotionally demanding like being a nurse is not the same thing as a hostile work environment.

So what is exactly hell on earth?

Working full days, 6-7 days a week, without getting paid would be up there for me. I'm not sure why people continue to think of Trendy as a "start up company" still when they employ nearly 50 people and have big time investors; they're no EA but they're also not some small indie firm, making games in their basement. I've always been a little puzzled by the constant stream of "Trendy fanboys" on here - I can understand having loyalty to a company but come on. If what is being said about the company, more specifically the actions of Jeremy Stieglitz, is true then there are no excuses.

As a woman who has been gaming for 20+ years, and as a mother to daughters, I'm pretty annoyed with the fact that Stieglitz instructed his artists and developers to work on making people "uncomfortable" with sexualizing an underage character. The fact that the female employees are also working with the same experience and at the same difficulty level as the men but for less pay is just the cherry on top. This fact alone has me ready to boycott the game, as well as the beta and any future products, until some sort of apology or explanation is issued from Trendy. As a consumer, I may not be able to stay away from every company who promotes beliefs that I don't agree with but when it comes to blatant sexism and the sexualization of children, well - that's just a whole other level of ick.

Considering all the buzz this article has generated and the utter silence from Trendy, it's hard to not think that most of what has been said is accurate. Even our beloved Hitmonchan has been MIA. As a note to those who are leery of discussing this on the official forum, there's a thread going in the Reddit group [link] on this article where you might feel more comfortable.

Also he's not even the CEO... doesn't the CEO make hiring decision and salary decisions?

No.

/5char

Trendy, why so serious?

This is what happens when you give us a mode we never asked for.

If I wanted to play a MOBA I will play League of Legends. Not some half *** clone of it.

Focus on the co-op section of the game, if there is even to be a game now. DD2 co-op has my interest not some wanna be MOBA.

All up that's pretty disgusting to read those things. I'm glad I quit DD awhile back.

10/10, This is too true. I play League, and the beta. I can't say anything about it due to NDA though.
I will say this, My anti-virus said the DDLauncher was a Virus.

Still haven't seen response from Trendy yet. Very concerning. You have limited time Trendy..

10/10, This is too true. I play League, and the beta. I can't say anything about it due to NDA though.
I will say this, My anti-virus said the DDLauncher was a Virus.

Still haven't seen response from Trendy yet. Very concerning. You have limited time Trendy..

Though there hasn't been anything officially announced, this was posted on Kotaku just recently: http://kotaku.com/shake-up-at-studio-from-hell-512135529

If I link this correctly, one of the comments also sheds some additional light: http://kotaku.com/id-just-like-to-confirm-the-things-that-have-been-said-512139912

Awesome news. Thanks for the link, Rudy. Guys, let's not give up on Trendy just yet.

Though there hasn't been anything officially announced, this was posted on Kotaku just recently: http://kotaku.com/shake-up-at-studio-from-hell-512135529

If I link this correctly, one of the comments also sheds some additional light: http://kotaku.com/id-just-like-to-confirm-the-things-that-have-been-said-512139912

If this is true, this is great. But Stieglitz cannot get far enough away from this company.

We want Dungeon Defenders II, Not another League of Legends ripoff.

I'm sure I can speak of a lot of people when I say I'd be fine if they just scrapped the MOBA altogether and made a true sequel. Starting from scratch wouldn't be an issue for me. I'm completely fine with waiting. Hell, they've already got enough characters for a sequel. You can tell from the blanked out screenshots of the character select menu they've released.

I dunno man, it'd be a pretty drastic PR move to completely scrap something that has already been publicized. Then again, the Kotaku article already ruined Trendy's PR so... yeah.

Anyway, I really wanted to get into LoL and couldn't, so I was hoping that DD2 would be able to bridge that gap for me with familiar characters. Plus, Trendy has already burned a lot of time and resources to get DD2 this far.

What I propose is that they split their efforts into developing the MOBA aspect as-is, and then redouble their efforts to make the co-op segment spectacular.

tl;dr: Make the MOBA aspect a nice add-on, but make the co-op segment the meat and bones of the game.

its all still talk right now.

people seem to be confusing frustration here also. i dont think anyone is frustrated with the developers and want to extend ill will to them. however, as has been said, we as consumers have very limited measures we can take to force changes in a company, and unfortunately, the best way to show intolerance towards a company is to boycott the services of that company. this undoubtedly results in unintended side effects.

however, to make meaning for changes, this is the course of action that has to be taken, because loss of revenue is the only thing that ultimately forces a change. when a company sees this, they immediately look for reasons why that happened. in this case, there is very clear evidence to both trendy, and insight venture (i believe that is the company's name), that unless a change is made, trendy will lose money, and insight venture will lose money. hopefully, and thankfully from the looks of the kotaku update, it will force a change before it is too late.

the article mentions stieglitz is pretty much in solitary confinement now. personally, my opinion is he should be removed from the company altogether, because even if working conditions change, it still creates a stressful work environment for both the employees still there that had to deal with his outbursts, and himself. i think it is a pity move more than anything else because if they let him go now, he would be hard pressed to find another job in this market (gaming industry, not economical). maybe in a different tech sector, but nerds generally stay up to date on other high profile nerds, so, yeah.

the rest of the article, the first one, a lot of it still pisses me off, because i always felt that the character designs for the female characters were oddly inappropriate considering what general age we were lead to believe the original heroes were. reading the things in that article, yeah, it really frustrated me to see what sort of mentality was applied to character designs.

to Ryzours, i dont want a refund because i didnt like the game; i want a refund because my money went to fund a womanizer and abuser (and apparently a sexual predator). as a consumer, i should have the right to express my support or protest to a company in such a manner. when dungeon defenders was originally released, i thoroughly enjoyed the game, enough to buy it on both PS3 and PC, as well as a good portion of the DLC for the PC. the decisions of the development, which not things i agreed with, were inconsequential compared to this, and it wasnt until i read this that i found out what my purchasing contributions supported. this is not something i, or anyone else, could have foreseen.

if changes are made, and if stieglitz is removed from development of dungeon defenders 2, and provided it is an enjoyable game as the first one was, i will gladly show my support for the development team by purchasing.