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Anyone else not thrilled by DD2?


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I know that the first people to jump onto these thread are most likely going to be the rabbid fanboys found in abundance on about every single last forum that will defend games they like to the knife but let me explain.

When I first heard there would be an Dungeon Defenders 2 I was thrilled, till I got around to actually read about it. I've been an first hour Dungeon Defenders player and have sunken hundreds of hours into the original game.
Yet when I came to the forum and read about the Moba I almost immediatly vomited and was about to leave to never return. From what I've read so far the Moba part is supposed to give people something to do between them adding new maps and so on and keep them interesting during the developement phase of dlc.
I'm actually convinced that's a blatant lie meant to not alienate those parts of the community who do not enjoy Mobas at all.

So far ALL I've seen about Dungeon Defenders 2 is about the Moba part, every single last article or post focuses on it and it seems to get an over proportionaly large ammount of time in the limelight compared to the real Dungeon Defender game that is supposed to still be part of it.
Three heroes have been revealed so far, all of them were only shown for the Moba part in fact even after the introduction of the third hero the tower defense part of the heroes is still grey and not available.

Anyone telling me that the Moba doesn't seem to suck up the mayority of the spotlight and most likely developement time is most likely lying to himself. The focus on the Moba WILL end up hurting the original game and makes me question why the game is called Dungeon Defenders 2 since it seems to have fairly little to do with the predecessor.


That being said, the game going for free and the Moba part is sure to attract a lot of new players many of whom aren't going to be the nicest lot around. The Dungeon Defenders community already has a lot of bad apples, but that is nothing compared to the Moba scene, that is universaly seen as the worst in all online communities.
Sure Trendy is going to profit from having them around but is the current community going to? Personaly I think that's highly questionable and further puts me off from actually playing the game.


I really can't understand the hype, since DD2 merely seems to be a completly different game that has hardly anything to do with DD and being stripped of all the things that made DD fun for the sake of cashing in on the growing Moba community.

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Trendy said they'll make the moba first, the coop later. Most forumers are not more thrilled by the moba or the 'free to play' direction, but there's no need to worry yet. Trendy is doing what they said they would, there's no reasons to doubt the cooperative mode of DD2 yet. No rabbid fanboys should have to defend the game, as almost nothing is known about it.

Seriously, as I said somewhere else, if Trendy doesn't talk about the coop part of DD3, that doesn't mean it will suck. That means they don't have much to say yet.
Wait for them to announce something before complaining.

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wow are you kidding me they havent been talking about the coop part because it is coming out after the moba not because its being neglected why would a company not focus on there huge succses in what world would a company do that find out more next time before you go out complaining about something your not even sure about

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Two thing: One, there has already been a thread like this, and two, we have little to no information. And you know you'll blow 500 hours on it.

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Trendy is releasing the two game modes independently. They chose to release the MOBA first. Because of that, they are releasing information on the MOBA first. When the MOBA is released, the spotlight will probably start shifting over to the traditional campaign mode. So far, we have no reason to believe that Trendy has lied or been dishonest about anything.

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We're releasing information about the competitive mode as that will be coming out first. We'll have more news on the cooperative mode later this year.

Dungeon Defenders II is a direct sequel to the first game. The cooperative mode will be the same tower defense/action-RPG cooperative game that you loved to play in Dungeon Defenders.

Think of the MOBA like this: The MOBA will be your launching point for the cooperative mode. The loot, stats and heroes you earn in the MOBA will transfer to the cooperative mode. If you don't like MOBAs, you can think of the game as a minigame helping you get ready for the tower defense mode.

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wow are you kidding me they havent been talking about the coop part because it is coming out after the moba not because its being neglected why would a company not focus on there huge succses in what world would a company do that find out more next time before you go out complaining about something your not even sure about

Because some (many) companies usually think they can cash in even more if they were to just expand their focus a bit further. Often this ends up spectacularly backfiring and only ends up killing a franchise for good.

Two thing: One, there has already been a thread like this, and two, we have little to no information. And you know you'll blow 500 hours on it.

We have little to no informations, which is exactly what I am worrying about since it only shows that the Moba is their clear focus with the campaign being tacked onto it at some point running on the engine they developed for the Moba and not the other way around.
For all purposes this makes it a mini game of the Moba, not the other way around and you can be sure as hell that I wont spend even a single minute on the Moba.

We're releasing information about the competitive mode as that will be coming out first. We'll have more news on the cooperative mode later this year.

Dungeon Defenders II is a direct sequel to the first game. The cooperative mode will be the same tower defense/action-RPG cooperative game that you loved to play in Dungeon Defenders.

Think of the MOBA like this: The MOBA will be your launching point for the cooperative mode. The loot, stats and heroes you earn in the MOBA will transfer to the cooperative mode. If you don't like MOBAs, you can think of the game as a minigame helping you get ready for the tower defense mode.

I don't like Moba, I hate Moba both for the community and the play style itself. In all honesty your post does little to alleviate my worries about the current direction the game takes. In fact it is all but admitting that the game is primarely developed as an Moba.
You yourself said that the Moba is the first one to be released and so apparently the one you're currently working on. This means the "classic" part of the game will run on the Mobas foundation and not the other way around.

In all honesty, pretty much saying that you have to participate in the Moba or are expected to do so (since that seems to be what you are doing) before jumping into the tower defense mode only brings up the concern for me that it will be balanced around participating in both parts of the game and carrying over rewards.

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Because some (many) companies usually think they can cash in even more if they were to just expand their focus a bit further. Often this ends up spectacularly backfiring and only ends up killing a franchise for good.


We have little to no informations, which is exactly what I am worrying about since it only shows that the Moba is their clear focus with the campaign being tacked onto it at some point running on the engine they developed for the Moba and not the other way around.
For all purposes this makes it a mini game of the Moba, not the other way around and you can be sure as hell that I wont spend even a single minute on the Moba.


I don't like Moba, I hate Moba both for the community and the play style itself. In all honesty your post does little to alleviate my worries about the current direction the game takes. In fact it is all but admitting that the game is primarely developed as an Moba.
You yourself said that the Moba is the first one to be released and so apparently the one you're currently working on. This means the "classic" part of the game will run on the Mobas foundation and not the other way around.

In all honesty, pretty much saying that you have to participate in the Moba or are expected to do so (since that seems to be what you are doing) before jumping into the tower defense mode only brings up the concern for me that it will be balanced around participating in both parts of the game and carrying over rewards.


DD2 is not being developed primarily as a MOBA. Both modes are being developed equally. One mode is releasing before the other. One does not have to play the competitive mode to play the cooperative mode, nor is it required. We are rewarding players who choose to do so, but those rewards are not being developed as exclusive to the MOBA. It's an extra incentive to play the mode and to help connect the mode to the Dungeon Defenders experience.

I understand your concerns with the community. It's something that we're focusing on. We found that MOBAs work best when:

A) You play with friends or people you know, and
B) You are being positively reinforced.

Both of these points are being considered when developing the game.

The engine for the game is the same engine that we used for Dungeon Defenders. The engine is incredibly flexible, as seen from the amazing fan-made creations on the Steam Workshop like Tower Wars.

The foundation of the cooperative mode is Dungeon Defenders. We're taking what worked from the first game and fixing what didn't work, while adding in some new things that help keep the game fresh. We honestly cannot wait to start showing off the cooperative mode, but everything has its right time.

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I'm thrilled about the Coop DD2, but I'm not thrilled that I have to just get fed info about the MOBA for like 4+ months while craving to know more about the tower defense. But meh, I've learned to just go on with my life and know I'll have to do more waiting for the part that I REALLY want.

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OP, it seems you have judged the game without giving it a go first.

Now I don't want to tell you how to do what you do, but why not just give it a try when it launches? I don't particularly like MOBAs either, but am willing to see the direction Trendy takes it.

I can see how you think that the MOBA is getting all of the spotlight, but we must remember that the MOBA part is in Beta now, and the coop is yet to hit Beta. I'm sure Trendy have learnt from a lot of their mistakes in DD including launching content that just isn't ready. I'm glad they are taking their time, we all should be.

Just give it a chance mate :)

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MOBA , from my exp has a horrible community. I have rank lv 30 in LOL and I can honestly say you can't go one match without people being horrible to each other why does Dungeon Defenders want to target this fan base, for money. Why would they launch Moab first over the classic tower defense co-op that we all know and love .... No clue but IMO some one is making a huge mistake. Most of us don't care for Moba that are reading and responding to these forums IMO it should be a complete after thought and not the first thing launched it makes no good sense. Why lead with a game version your fan base is not thrilled about? The thing that worries me most is that we'll get the fan base of LOL and the total lack of people respecting each other that comes along with them. If you have to play the MOBA version to get BETTER items to become more powerful in the co-op version I'm gonna be very VERY disappointed cuz honestly I don't wanna deal with the attitudes that come with the MOBA communities.

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MOBA , from my exp has a horrible community. I have rank lv 30 in LOL and I can honestly say you can't go one match without people being horrible to each other why does Dungeon Defenders want to target this fan base, for money. Why would they launch Moab first over the classic tower defense co-op that we all know and love .... No clue but IMO some one is making a huge mistake. Most of us don't care for Moba that are reading and responding to these forums IMO it should be a complete after thought and not the first thing launched it makes no good sense. Why lead with a game version your fan base is not thrilled about? The thing that worries me most is that we'll get the fan base of LOL and the total lack of people respecting each other that comes along with them. If you have to play the MOBA version to get BETTER items to become more powerful in the co-op version I'm gonna be very VERY disappointed cuz honestly I don't wanna deal with the attitudes that come with the MOBA communities.


Because MOBA can be played over and over again without really getting bored while the DD action RPG tower defense gets boring after you reach the end so you have something to do while stuff gets developed.

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Its a big marketting error by trendy to release the moba thing seperatly. Just adds confusion as to what the core game actually is. Dont call both Dun def 2. They are 2 totally different games. One of which i am not interested in.

I think thats the issue most people are unhappy about.

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Honestly DD2 can avoid the awful community by not being a competitive MOBA. The Dota scene has always been competitive, and many of the mobas inspired by Dota marketed themselves as being competitive. Then you get all the competitive people jumping head first into them then complaining when people who aren't as competitive ruin their stats.

If Trendy completely strips away the statistic side of the moba, then the moba ceases to be competitive. There's no more lasting penalty to winning or losing. There's no reason to go pro. There is no pro. There's just the game, which is meant to be fun, and nothing more.

You play a game and lose. Who cares? You get a little something for PvE (hopefully). You win, you get a little something more, maybe an item that looks even shinier than the one you get by losing. Then everybody wins to some extent. make it an 'everybody wins' game and nobody will care about losing. 'Everybody wins' is a root fundamental of casual PvP gaming.

This is so much better than games like HoN where one loss means your chances of being kicked from a game increases by a multiplier of ten. Or League where people send hate messages because you're kicking their ranking in the shin through losing.

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Another thing that makes most communities in MOBA's terrible is that a game lasts a minimum of 20 minutes, usually more. That means that when someone messes up the game early, you'll be forced to play with him for another long time.
If trendy kicks down the average match to last about 10 to 15 minutes or less, it would probably a lot more friendly.

I'm personally not so excited by the MOBA part though, but I'll definitely try it out. Mainly looking forward to the coop.

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Having never played a moba style game before, i am somewhat interested in the competitive mode and seeing what its all about. That being said, I'm much more interested and excited about the traditional dungeon defenders style gameplay. Im not ready to write off the moba as being terrible or not being "dungeon defenders" until i actually play it

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Having never played a moba style game before, i am somewhat interested in the competitive mode and seeing what its all about. That being said, I'm much more interested and excited about the traditional dungeon defenders style gameplay. Im not ready to write off the moba as being terrible or not being "dungeon defenders" until i actually play it

Try it. It's a completly different kind of game that has nothing, nothing whatsoever in common with the Dungeon Defenders we currently have. It's like having an an RTS and as successor the studio in question releases a first person shooter.


On Topic, a big problem here might be perceiption. If the old Dungeon Defenders really is what the focus lies on and the Moba is merely meant to bridge the gaps in between new addions then:

- Why is the Moba developed first?
- Why is the Moba all we've heard about so far?
- Why aren't there any information on the new Co-Op and the changes made to it?
- Why are the heroes build around the Moba with loads of classes that most likely will serve no purpose in Co-Op?
- Why will the Moba be released first and the Defense part only come later?
- Why are people going to profit from playing the Moba for the Defense part but not the other way around? What mind boggling reason can possible to exist to give Moba players a head start and advantage over players who do not want to play the Moba for the defense mode?

Its a big marketting error by trendy to release the moba thing seperatly. Just adds confusion as to what the core game actually is. Dont call both Dun def 2. They are 2 totally different games. One of which i am not interested in.

I think thats the issue most people are unhappy about.

I agree, they are completly different games and there isn't any kind of real reason to link them. It feels to me that they're merely trying to run their Moba with an etablished name since it will be hard to get a foot into the Moba scene with the etablished games already being around.

And I don't actually think there should be any confusion on what exactly is going to be the core game. So far ALL we've heared is solely about one part, all developement goes into on side of the game, one side will be released way earlier, you profit from playing one side when jumping into the other but not the other way around and so on and on and on.

As more as I learn about Dun Def 2 the less I am convinced it actually deserves the name Dun Def and the more agitated I actually become. If it really would be as they told us, there is little to no reason to have such a severe bias in favor of the extra feature of the true game, yet there is.
Hell it shouldn't even be 50/50 developement wise (which I am not convinced it currently is, seeing as how one side is far longer in developement and will be released way earlier).

Releasing the Moba part earlier will only end up hurting the Co-Op community. Dun Def 2 will be perceived as an Moba (which I think is actually intentional on the long run) and people especially new players will assume the Moba is the core game.
When you release the Moba several months earlier it already has time to accumulate a player base, one that is completly uninterested in Co-Op part possibly alienating former players or those who're interested in the Co-Op part.

The best thing is, there aren't even different forums for either part. You will have balance discussions and people screaming at each other (since that is what in PvP usually happens) right next to some discussions about proper set ups for defense and you can be sure as hell that the Moba people don't want to have those in "their" forums.

Try having a PvE discussion on the official Warcraft forums in the PvP section or the other way around.

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[QUOTE]They are 2 totally different games. One of which i am not interested in.[/QUOTE]They're different, but they will be connected in various ways, not the least of which is the same roster of heroes is playable in both modes.

I can understand the MOBA sentiment, personally, but i think some people rag on their communities too hard. If you don't take things too seriously, it's not so bad, and some good positive reinforcement can help create a more friendly environment. LOL has a number of systems to address this issue and it seems to work fairly well for them- their community is better than most of them despite it being the largest one.

Remember, it is just one part of the game- it more or less seems intended to replace the less-than-stellar PvP that existed in DD1, which left a lot to be desired mainly because of the issue of stat discrepancies, and lack of depth.

Try not to be too cynical! :) If you remain such though, I hope you find yourself pleasantly surprised when the time comes, and I thank you for voicing your thoughts in a pleasant manner. :)

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They're different, but they will be connected in various ways, not the least of which is the same roster of heroes is playable in both modes.

I can understand the MOBA sentiment, personally, but i think some people rag on their communities too hard. If you don't take things too seriously, it's not so bad, and some good positive reinforcement can help create a more friendly environment. LOL has a number of systems to address this issue and it seems to work fairly well for them- their community is better than most of them despite it being the largest one.

Remember, it is just one part of the game- it more or less seems intended to replace the less-than-stellar PvP that existed in DD1, which left a lot to be desired mainly because of the issue of stat discrepancies, and lack of depth.

Try not to be too cynical! :) If you remain such though, I hope you find yourself pleasantly surprised when the time comes, and I thank you for voicing your thoughts in a pleasant manner. :)

I'd wish I would be pleasantly suprised but for quite some time that hasn't happened ever since money became the sole most important reason to play games. Maybe I am to cynical but I really can't remember anything similar happening in another game for the last few years that has ever turned out favorable for the old (and often new) players.

It's just sad that it now seems to hit a game of a fairly small developer which I (and some friends whom I introduced to it) really like.

I don't get it if you if you think it sounds dumb don't play it.

Hey a deadbeat argument. Because it's not likely I really liked the first DD and spend hundreds of hours on it and would like a real successor for said game?

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Odds are i probably wont be that into the moba part of the game but im not ready to dismiss it before having even played it. i just hope that they really nail the tower defense part and use the moba part of the game as a diversion or change of pace in between new content for the tower defense portion

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Don't understand why people are whining about something they have very limited knowledge about. Seems to be a common trend in gaming communities...

Have you ever thought of the possibility that development of the co-op requires more time than the competitive? 1 map vs. 15+ (fingers crossed much more) is obviously an example of this (with original layouts too, while the MOBA looks fairly standardised). Development work for the MOBA can only be on the heroes (can't think of anything else to be added over time...), which is also development for the coop, so...

Anyway, we're obviously just playing the waiting game for now. People should stop whining on what is obviously very little information. Later on, when we actually have solid information and not small fragments from a multitude of sources that might not even be correct, complaints will be significantly more valid.

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[QUOTE]I'd wish I would be pleasantly suprised but for quite some time that hasn't happened ever since money became the sole most important reason to play games.[/QUOTE]DD2 will be free to play, so you won't have to give anybody one red cent to try either mode and decide for yourself if it lives up to potential or not. You're kinda jumping to conclusions here. Making games is a business, but that doesn't mean that the people making them don't care about making their product enjoyable.

I'd recommend waiting for closer to the release of the PvP, when there will probably be more real information available, rather than passing judgement now when not much information has been released yet.

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