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Been Playing a Week. Fun to Frustrating. My thoughts.


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Possible long read. Maybe this will turn into a rambling post.

Bought the Game a week ago. First couple days was a lot of fun learning the ins and outs and now i'm finally getting into the higher level play. However as I'm finally transitioning from noob status to intermediate some aspects about this game kinda ruin the experience for me.

First is the incredible fast way to level with no effort. One day while I was still learning I did a "quick match" and got put into a nightmare game. After one wave I jumped from 33-70 and I was like "holy ****". So I switched to my other heroes and in about 10-20 minutes I had 3 level 73s. All that earlier leveling I did playing through the campaign kinda seems like a waste now.



The other problem I have is this game being a one man show. Now that im in the higher levels. It seems like the team strategy has been thrown out the window. I've noticed if you dont have good enough gear to really solo you're forced to join someone games who needs upgrade/repair slaves. So you have one player do all the work while the others just run around collecting mana and upgrading. Then when that's all done you just have to sit there most of the time.


This seems to be a problem with allowing players to switch heroes during games. This makes it so you can have one player do all the building/work and takes away the "team" aspect of this game. I feel like if this was not allowed it would bring more team strategy to the game as 4 players would have to work together and have to decide whos "dps" and whos "builder" and get everyone involved.


Which brings me to another problem. Now that i have "ok" gear but nothing special I now seem stuck. I currently do not have good enough gear to solo the higher levels or maps to get better gear. If I play on the lower difficulties I will not get sufficient mana to be it worth my time. So I ask high level players how to get better gear and the usual replies are "shops" and "find it".

However this leaves me in a bind. Ok so people say get items from shops. And the only way for me to gain enough mana to buy gear from these shops is to become an upgrade slave for hosts. But this leads you to another problem. Mana has almost no value. A player even gave me 1b mana for free because he had so much he didn't care lol. So I hop in shops to upgrade my gear but all they want for actually good stat items is coal. And I'm not good enough to clear that map to get coal. and i never see those games hosted. So what do I do lol?

Now that shops are out of the picture some players also say to find better stuff. Currently Im not good enough to solo on the maps that will drop better gear. And at this point the maps where the host can do all the work (the ones im actually not kicked in) doesn't drop good enough gear. So why not wait until someone hosts a good one and join in? well i do, the rare times i see them on the list, but i almost get instantly kicked having my gear not good enough to help them out. So how do I "find" better gear when I'm unable to play on the maps to get better gear?





Conclusion:
After 7-8 days of this I've taken breath and stepped back and really evaluated if this game is worth the grind. And to be honest it doesn't seem like it. I'm not having fun just being an upgrade slaves which is really not getting me anywhere anyone as I pointed out earlier.

I had to ask myself. Why were levels 1-30 a lot more fun then these higher levels. It seems like the higher level I get the more this game turned into a "hey one man build stuff the rest of you run around and and click attack for 25 waves. What happened to the team strategy?

At this point I've decided to play for fun trying the challenges on insane. Doing some tower wars, stuff like that.



And I actually decided to play a game with friends and we all started at 0 from the beginning, the rule is you cant switch heroes. And this seemed to have brought back the "team strategy aspect" that the higher levels seems to be missing.



Just wondering what are your thoughts on this? If anyone actually took the time to read this lol

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The problem is you joined a NM game...Now you sky rocketed your level to higher levels with the gear not to match. So now that you are there what you want to do is give us a little more info. Are you in Godly gear or Myth gear? What level are you trying to farm and on what difficulty? What classes do you have?

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"And I actually decided to play a game with friends and we all started at 0 from the beginning, the rule is you cant switch heroes. And this seemed to have brought back the "team strategy aspect" that the higher levels seems to be missing."

This is what you really should of done from the start, if you have friends on the same level just try to avoid online completely until you have finished the NM campaign and at least the insane shards campaign.

Ad for progression past 74 it is not the greatest system in the world but it is by no means impossible to do solo.

endless spires wave 1 >> Magnus quarter >> ramparts >> misty mire

Or some variation on that.

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This is pretty much my story when i first started! Got a 87 monk, 85 monk, 83 summoner, 78 squire, 85 jester, 76 EV, 83 apprentice, 80 traptress and i still cant farm coal :) im in a similiar situation just a little further into the game. All you need to do is find out which map is best for dropping the next armour you need then farm that for new gear. Try different building methods because the same tactic doesnt work on every map which you will find out later. Ramparts is a good map once you have done it a few times and find yourself a good setup. Once you get to 74, you can buy some semi-decent mythical gear for around 50-100mill a piece. If you get 600mill from each game you play then you have plenty of mana to buy gear, thats assuming you cant reach a high enough wave to find good gear. Im pretty sure ramparts wave 20+ on NMHCMM gives transcendent too so it should also give high end mythical gear which if you make a set, you can auction it off on the forums. People generally pay a LOT more for a set than individual pieces. Find the hardest map you can get to wave 20+ on because thats where the gear gets a nice stat boost. If you can do NMHC then even better. NMHCMM is a bit of a pain on some maps. if you're gonna do insane then i think you have to do it on HC mode and nothing useful will drop until wave 20. It may be in your interest to power level and DPS character up because they are surprisingly useful. Need them for killing bosses on the shards maps and many challenges for nice rewards.

Keep us updated :)

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Many shops would sell trans armors or good myths for under 100M
You don't need really good gear. Beat all the maps and challenges in NMHC to get a mk2 and a cube, then you'll get better gear.

But really, just playing with your friend is the way to go. Plenty of challenges to beat and achievement to get. I got my cube after more than 300 hours of playtime (and I didn't sell it) . Getting it much more quickly is possible, but you're not in a hurry, are you?

After a week, I was still struggling to beat some levels on insane difficulty...
Nightmare was much later.

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As asked before, what is your stats on what characters?

If you give us a list of all your characters and what stats they are at, we can help you a lot better.

There are sites such as ddplanner that will give a layout of a map and tell what towers to put where so you can try a map for yourself with a good build.

As far as your coal problem, try maps like Kings Game on NMHC (whether its your game or you join anothers) because if you get a good Pawn Shot (the reward on the map for the Huntress - just switch to the Huntress/Ranger on final wave to get it), you can hold an auction for it to get mana/coal/cubes/etc.

Thats how I got started in the trading game and getting the items needed to get the "better" gear. I got lucky and got an Ult++ with like 450 ups and sold it off and went from there.

You can also participate in Events and you will receive a special item for free that can only be obtained by doing it and can sell them for 4 to 5 cubes (going rate for event items lately).

With those 4 or 5 cubes, you can buy armor, weps pets or whatever to make your characters better and do the better maps.

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First is the incredible fast way to level with no effort. All that earlier leveling I did playing through the campaign kinda seems like a waste now.

Coming from a noob point of view, this may seem excessive, but it actually becomes VERY slow to hit the level cap of 100. None of your time was wasted as you got to enjoy/learn the game! :D The big problem is the gap between insane and nightmare.


The other problem I have is this game being a one man show. So you have one player do all the work while the others just run around collecting mana and upgrading.

True and not true. The problem with Nightmare is that you have to build VERY optimized if you don't have uber stats, so you can't afford to have someone build stuff in the wrong place. You can only really share building duties if you plan this out so they build the same build you do or if you both have stupidly high stats. You can still DPS and there are some maps where the builder doesn't have powerful enough towers to beat the map without a good team upgrading and killing ogres. Many games you can sit akf more or less but that is either because the map is too easy for the builder stats or the enemies are too powerful for you to dps.


This seems to be a problem with allowing players to switch heroes during games.
I spent my first 1000 hours in the game without a dedicated DPS. I upgraded resistances on my squire builder and gave it a weapon with damage upgraded so I could DPS. I AM SO HAPPY to be able to make dedicated DPS and swap heroes all the time... plus, until you get super high level, you need to build on at least 4 characters, so who would dps if everyone had to be different builder?


Now that i have "ok" gear but nothing special I now seem stuck. I currently do not have good enough gear to solo the higher levels or maps to get better gear.
There are MANY resources in the guides section of the forum that will help you with this. It takes time and work and sometimes you get lucky and get some free gear or find stuff in AFK shops that is not over-priced. This is a gear grinding game if you want to play NM mode :)

So I hop in shops to upgrade my gear but all they want for actually good stat items is coal. And I'm not good enough to clear that map to get coal. and i never see those games hosted. So what do I do lol?
you want to find shops that sell good stuff in the afk section where max price is 600m. It takes time to find the good shops, but it is worth it if you do.


Currently Im not good enough to solo on the maps that will drop better gear. And at this point the maps where the host can do all the work (the ones im actually not kicked in) doesn't drop good enough gear.
You need a bit of luck to join games where you can get decent/good gear without being kicked. A lot of hosts will let you join survival games if you have a summoner as most people build survival to afk with summoners (so doesn't require good dps characters) for armour only drops. You can solo the entire game up to high stats if you are willing to put in a bit extra time. With smart building and smart DPS, you can go super far. You can always have public members join you to help out, but just remember that maps have WAY less enemies (especially ogres) when playing solo and therefore it's way easier if you rely on towers only.


Conclusion:
.
.
.
Not everyone is willing to put in the time and grinding required to play NM, which is fine. You can still get a few hundred hours of fun without ever doing NM level games. But the challenge of NM is really exciting, especially as a tower builder. There is no way around the gear grinding in NM as that is a core feature of the game. I spent many weeks frustrated at NM because things were impossibly hard and then I got some good armour from a few runs and it made it all worth it and I'd be rolling again for a few weeks and then hit another block, etc... I still enjoyed it all, even the frustrating (at times) grind for gear/mana, but I've always hosted my own games (95% of the time), so I don't have to deal with the BS of only finding crappy maps being hosted.

The only thing that would have been better if I had know the places to farm because I spent many hours farming maps that didn't have the best work/reward ratio and that meant I took a lot longer to get my stats up. Still, I've had a blast with this game and the challenge is VERY rewarding when you finally get something amazing.

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The problem is you joined a NM game...Now you sky rocketed your level to higher levels with the gear not to match. So now that you are there what you want to do is give us a little more info. Are you in Godly gear or Myth gear? What level are you trying to farm and on what difficulty? What classes do you have?


Here's a Rundown of my current heroes

These are all builders I have no dps currently.

Monk (86) 1490, 2300, 1200, 1600

Squire (78) 304, 1600, 672, 1450

Summoner (80) 700, 1630, 1440, 1600

Ev (78) 1500, 1520, 0, 1020

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"And I actually decided to play a game with friends and we all started at 0 from the beginning, the rule is you cant switch heroes. And this seemed to have brought back the "team strategy aspect" that the higher levels seems to be missing."

This is what you really should of done from the start, if you have friends on the same level just try to avoid online completely until you have finished the NM campaign and at least the insane shards campaign.

Ad for progression past 74 it is not the greatest system in the world but it is by no means impossible to do solo.

endless spires wave 1 >> Magnus quarter >> ramparts >> misty mire

Or some variation on that.


i think im good enough to solo magnus quarter, however it never dropped any gear i needed, not once. even past wave 20. So im led to believe it would be waste of time farming on that map.

Never tried ramparts.

Cant do Misty Mire.

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This is pretty much my story when i first started! Got a 87 monk, 85 monk, 83 summoner, 78 squire, 85 jester, 76 EV, 83 apprentice, 80 traptress and i still cant farm coal :) im in a similiar situation just a little further into the game. All you need to do is find out which map is best for dropping the next armour you need then farm that for new gear. Try different building methods because the same tactic doesnt work on every map which you will find out later. Ramparts is a good map once you have done it a few times and find yourself a good setup. Once you get to 74, you can buy some semi-decent mythical gear for around 50-100mill a piece. If you get 600mill from each game you play then you have plenty of mana to buy gear, thats assuming you cant reach a high enough wave to find good gear. Im pretty sure ramparts wave 20+ on NMHCMM gives transcendent too so it should also give high end mythical gear which if you make a set, you can auction it off on the forums. People generally pay a LOT more for a set than individual pieces. Find the hardest map you can get to wave 20+ on because thats where the gear gets a nice stat boost. If you can do NMHC then even better. NMHCMM is a bit of a pain on some maps. if you're gonna do insane then i think you have to do it on HC mode and nothing useful will drop until wave 20. It may be in your interest to power level and DPS character up because they are surprisingly useful. Need them for killing bosses on the shards maps and many challenges for nice rewards.

Keep us updated :)


Again the maps that drop better gear I cant solo. So how am I supposed to farm that? Usually never can find a hosted game either.

True I get mana. But like I said. Players don't care about mana anymore, I've seen people with trillions. I was given a billion for free lol. All they want is coal.

Yeah i've been thinking about making a dps hero, prob a huntress most likely.

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I bet if you took the time to design a good build (or find one) you could farm Misty for gear *roll eyes* With those stats you can easily do ramparts if you design a good build. You will want to add in gas traps with good ranged (trap damage doesn't matter much at this point since you only really want gas) and try to give your EV some "range" for the buff beam multiplier and a little more HP on the squire.

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Ill offer to build a kings build for anyone that wants to gear up, it drops nearly ~10 trans pieces each wave. All you need to do is upgrade and keep it maintained.

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You're not observing anything that everyone else hasn't.

The game was fine-tuned from Easy to Insane mode. That's where all of the algorithms and drop rates and essentially every foundation of the game makes sense.

Your fun got spoiled once you joined Nightmare and found it to be a complete mess?

What.

A.

Shock.

Did you hear that, Trendy? Someone who was really having a blast BEFORE Nightmare mode now thinks this game needs some serious work? Aren't you amazed? This HAS TO BE the first time this has been brought up, right? RIGHT???

The difficulty that Trendy just tossed on without tuning isn't as much fun or as logical to progress? You're kidding!!!

Sadly Quicktim3, you power-leveled yourself right past the "fun" part. If anyone buys this game and then comes to the forums asking for tips for a newb, I always tell them play until you beat the main campaign on Insane, don't buy the Eternia Shards, and then LEAVE. The rest of the game is a trap. You'll think "Oh man, this was so great, Nightmare is just gonna be the next step up in difficulty." Well, it's not. Nightmare is just that... a nightmare. It's an unfinished, unpolished wreck that Trendy already got paid for, so all us chumps can just go rot.

My friends and I had a BLAST playing a different character each, and then each doing some building and then not switching to a DPS character for the combat. But all that "fun" crap died with Insane mode. In Nightmare, it turns into a stat-driven grind-fest.

So, if you want to bring the "fun" back, you've got the right idea. Play with friends, don't power-level, and STOP WHEN YOU BEAT INSANE GLITTERHELM. There's still a great game buried underneath the garbage that is Nightmare.

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Play with friends, don't buy items from afk-shops. With 1-1.5k stats you already passed Insane-NM gap. But still don't have enough skill to move further.
If you want to tell us how boring dd with 4k stats after 2 weeks of playing - join public aqua+ survivals, ask for help with mk2 and cube and just buy all you want.

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it ii sad if you cant get ult or better trans items without shopping probably hacked items. And he have right about upgrade slaves.. this game is not multi-player friendly, if you can build whole game alone, I hope for some tavern planing options at DD2. Host can make a plan and in game everyone can put his defenses at marked points. And the main problem is loot. everybody want to play alone, because want all good items. I am starting get bored with this game too. Items are so unbalanced at shops so overpriced. How can you buy a good item if it cost 20-50 cubes???? crazy. Normal player dont have a chance to get more than 1 cube, and how can you get better items for trading if you need epic items to get better items? If somebody with epic gear understand this..try to throw all gear away and try get back to top only with farming. No shopping.

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How can you buy a good item if it cost 20-50 cubes???? crazy. Normal player dont have a chance to get more than 1 cube, and how can you get better items for trading if you need epic items to get better items? If somebody with epic gear understand this..try to throw all gear away and try get back to top only with farming. No shopping.

Only "forum trade heroes" buy items for 50 cubes. Because they want to show their 7k stats to everyone. You need ~3-4k stats to beat almost everything in the game.

I use only self-found gear and all my builders have 5k stats. So it's not that hard.

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I use only self-found gear and all my builders have 5k stats. So it's not that hard.


How many hours into the game are you?

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How many hours into the game are you?

900 hours from 0 to 2.5k (one year ago) and 500 hours from 2.5k to 5k (last six months).

Only 2k thp, 2.5k tdmg is required to beat almost the whole game. The latest maps and its survival runs requires more. Just do your progress through the WHOLE game and you will get enough good gear.

Everything = WW with 3 afks and Palantir/Talay/Akatiti/WW survivals.

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900 hours from 0 to 2.5k (one year ago) and 500 hours from 2.5k to 5k (last six months).


Yeah... thought so.

I use only self-found gear and all my builders have 5k stats. So it's not that hard.


I find those two quotes contradictory. Maybe that's just me, though.

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The main issue is, that new player like you are thinking, that they will get better gear ONLY on the hardest map with the hardest difficulty. That's totally wrong!

Actually, he's right about that. I'm by no means a new player, I've been around for quite some time till eternia shards 4 hit. Had about every single last achievment till then and simply stopped caring. Currently back to get the new stuff introduced.
The transition from insane to nightmare is a nasty one. The fun thin about this is that most of nightmare drops items worse then needed to actually beat it. Even survival maps drop "bad" stuff till you hit the higher waves and to reach those you need better gear.

The itemization in Dungeon Defenders is horrible, to get gear to do stuff you have to do even more difficult stuff for which you need even better gear. The only chance to ever get said gear is to get incredible lucky and put hundreds of hours of gameplay in.

One of the reason for this is the extreme RNG, the low drop chances and the stat bloat. Whoever thought about 12 stats were needed of whom all can be negative or a single one can be thus ruining an otherwise decent drop needs to be hit over the head with a paper fan for an entire day.

I especially like my -400 stats giraffe, -400 on every single stat it had. Sadly someone bought it out of my store.

[Quote]Long story short: Try to do as much as possible by yourself. You will learn many things especially if you do the achievement called Transcendent Survivalist. Also Insane HC drops armor with it you can entry NM.[/QUOTE]
Dis be a lie. The only way I found to make the jump myself was by spamming City in the Cliffs and hoping to get rewarded decent mythicals back then. I mostly returned because a friend of mine needed help since she couldn't close the gap herself after she had a blast for level 1-13 on insane she hit the gear wall, hard.
Funny thing though. Just tagging along when I did some of the new maps on nightmare such as tavern defense netted her better items then she ever got herself by doing survival/challenges on insane in a single day then in the entire time she tried to do it herself.

The only halfway decent way to jump over the item gap is to have someone drag you along feeding you items.

900 hours from 0 to 2.5k (one year ago) and 500 hours from 2.5k to 5k (last six months).

1500 hours or 62,5 days of non sto playing. I'm fairly sure you'd beat a lot of WoW players with that number. That being said, I'm fairly sure I was faster to reach 3k where I am currently at after being out since Aquanos.
It's still an insanely high ammount of time for being rewarded very little.

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1500 hours or 62,5 days of non sto playing. I'm fairly sure you'd beat a lot of WoW players with that number. That being said, I'm fairly sure I was faster to reach 3k where I am currently at after being out since Aquanos.
It's still an insanely high ammount of time for being rewarded very little.


1. 900+500=1400
2. Don't forget about afk shops, afk survivals and afk power leveling.
3. You don't need to spend 900 hours to get 2-2.5k stats anymore. Maybe 100-150.

And I can tell you how to get 4-4.5k stats when you already have 2-2.5k. It won't take 500 hours:
NM TD PS (lvl up) -> Insane TD SV (kobolds - optional) -> NM KG SV (trans armor) -> Insane WW SV (skeletons) -> Get Seahorse + Cat + 2 Steam Saws + DPS Barb + Boost Monk -> NM Akatiti Campaign (Obsidians - 4-4.5k) -> NM WW C (Diamonds + accs if you want 5k+) -> Any SkyCity+ NMSV (if you want to spend 1-2k hours trying to get ult sets and 6k stats - optional).

Sometimes I want to start on a new account to learn more about hard - insane - nm progression. But I heard someone already did it and had no problems at all. So even if it's hard for new players, it's not a reason to skip that part of DD.

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Sometimes I want to start on a new account to learn more about hard - insane - nm progression. But I heard someone already did it and had no problems at all. So even if it's hard for new players, it's not a reason to skip that part of DD.

Try it with only the original characters, then its actually quite challenging and rewarding. Using EV and summoner just makes everything a snoozefest.

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Dis be a lie. The only way I found to make the jump myself was by spamming City in the Cliffs and hoping to get rewarded decent mythicals back then.


You can not expect better gear after 1 or even 3 survival runs. It is a slow progress unless you get carried by someone else. I got many upgrades doing all shard maps on Insane Hardcore. Then I tried Nightmare Non-HC. It was hard and ofcourse I failed several times. The point is you need to learn from that. I've learned many things from it.

Below some examples and I think the most important.

Huntress Tower
  • Gas Traps are the most effective Traps especially for low building stats. They will stop almost the whole mob. This gives you and your defense much time to kill incoming enemies. In additions Djinns will stop to desummon stuff. Therefore a huge range is recommended.
  • Tower stats priority: Range > HP/Rate > Damage
  • Recommended stats: 1500/1000/1000/0
  • Reasonable stats: 2500/2000+/up to you/up to you
    Please keep in mind, I don't say damage is absolutely unimportant but it should not be your focus for low building stats.


Monk Tower
  • An aura stack of Ensnare, Electric and Strength Drain is the most used and also best stack. Try to place auras that way, that you can fight with a DPS char in front of your towers but you are still covered by the auras.
  • The Enrage aura is undervalued. This aura will give you additional time to kill the mob since the enemies fighting each other. This aura is required for doing the achievement called "Mythical Real Time Strategist" if you have low/mid building stats with your Summoner.
  • Tower stats priority: Range > HP/Damage > Rate
  • Recommended stats: 1750/1500/1500/1000
  • Reasonable stats: 2500/2500/up to you/up to you
    Try to upgrade HP and Damage similar. It makes no sense to have 3000 Damage and 1000 HP, you will be in need to repair the aura all the time.


Squire Tower
  • Surprise! The Harpoon is the most effective defense from the Squire. Ensure they are covered from behind, since they shoot only in front of them. An additional Archer or building crossover will be helpful if not covered by the auras.
  • Tower stats priority: HP/Damage > Range/Rate
  • Recommended stats: 1750/1750/1250/1250
  • Reasonable stats: 2500/up to you/up to you/up to you
    Try to upgrade HP and Damage similar. It makes no sense to have 3000 Damage and 1000 HP. Better they do less damage but last longer against ogres.


Series EV Tower
  • Buff Beams have a pretty worst scaling. If you have reach 800 points on each stat then it will be fine for the start. Due to the fact of the worse scaling there is actually no reasonable stats, maybe 1.6k to 2.4k for all stats. Keep better armor for other tower chars.
  • A buff beam multiplies your build by 3 ... if I remember correct. My high end buff beam does 4-4.5 ;)


Summoner Tower
  • You can use minions as a wall, much better than a physical wall from a Series EV. Set a buff, build archers and a mage and you will be fine for the start.
  • If your 'minion' wall gets attacked by ogres then you may summon an additional spider. This minions are pretty decent and twice any damage for a webbed enemy.
  • Tower stats priority: HP/Damage > Range/Rate
  • Recommended stats: 1750/1750/---/---
  • Reasonable stats: 2500/up to you/up to you/up to you
    Try to upgrade HP and Damage similar. It makes no sense to have 3000 Damage and 1000 HP. Better they do less damage but last longer against ogres.


Lol, I didn't want to write that much :D Well maybe it will help others. Feel free to correct me :)

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Lol, I didn't want to write that much :D Well maybe it will help others. Feel free to correct me :)


It helped me. Thank you, yet again.

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