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Making the cooperative pay to play

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This was just an idea that sprouted in my mind, but I was thinking that the cooperative part of DD2 should be pay to play, maybe a low price of $5-$15.

Since DD2 is going to be free to play, I can imagine the game will be attracting a ton of players, including the not so kind ones. This could lead to cooperative games where there are people trying to "troll" by ruining games, and people leeching to get better gear and characters.

If the cooperative part was pay to play however, it would cut the player list down to people who are actually interested enough into the game to put their money into it, thus vastly lowering the amount of people ruining cooperative games.

What do you guys think of this suggestion? It'd be great to hear other people's opinions and criticism on this idea.

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The idea of preventing people from just making new free accounts is a valid idea. There are many games that are F2P where people just smurf all the time or try to hack and just make new accounts.

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The idea of preventing people from just making new free accounts is a valid idea. There are many games that are F2P where people just smurf all the time or try to hack and just make new accounts.


That would be pretty logical. I think the makers of tf2 also had the same idea when they made their game f2p. To avoid people farming extra items with their alt accounts, they made you have to pay to trade items and have a higher drop rate.

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I would much rather pay for a game then pay for any kind of leveling / characters etc.

F2P has me concerned a little.

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I would also very much just buy the game and play it, I hate free to play.
And the idea of the opener seems sensible. I'd like to hear why those who disagree do so.

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I would also very much just buy the game and play it, I hate free to play.
And the idea of the opener seems sensible. I'd like to hear why those who disagree do so.




14. Why free-to-play?


Two of the main problems we wanted to solve with Dungeon Defenders II were: How do we get more people to play with each other? How do we always have people for new players to play with? Creating 24-player overworlds and adding in a 5v5 competitive mode was our answer to the first problem and free-to-play solved the second. The constant stream of new players entering the game would mean there was always enough people for low-level players to play with, and eventually even more higher-level players to play with the vets.


That.
Free to play will be always attracting new people, and we will always have new players to play with :) and the community can grow bigger and bigger. Also easier to convince friends to join.

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Game should be free in my opinion.Think of dota2 and team fortress2 they are f2p.Reason?They have in game items for players to buy or get drop of it.Also i can say 1 more thing about dota2.Yes it is free but still not finished and it is developing.Still some heroes missing etc.However; i remember that when international 2012 was running there were almost 1 million ppl online on dota2 to play or watch.And now what?I see any time in day 200,000 ppl max(ı am not saying all of them players,of course there are huge number of trades to make cash with ingame items).And many ppl have dota2 invite in their steam account at number of 10 more or less but still they have less ppl playing.Thinking of dd2 will be pay to play?To be honest only members of that forum will buy it and few new players of course.

And when co-op part revealed they will make dlc and heroes to pay and get with no doubt.

Maybe you are wanting to say that tran the community of dd2 should be peaceful and honest place with a little charge.So that only dd lovers will be there.I can respect that idea but these days any game like dota2 or others(everyone can make a huge list if search web) is free.

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Only thing that bug me in a free to play game is that in most of them, if you want all of the content available or most of it, you will probably pay WAY more then any pay to play games.

I personally don't mind, I never spent any money on LoL & I've been playing it for over 3 years.


DD2 will be the first F2P game that I will spend money on(I like Trendy enough to promise this :)). I will probably buy all the extra content they release & compare the final cost to Dungeon Defenders(1) & its dlc's.

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Only thing that bug me in a free to play game is that in most of them, if you want all of the content available or most of it, you will probably pay WAY more then any pay to play games.

I personally don't mind, I never spent any money on LoL & I've been playing it for over 3 years.


DD2 will be the first F2P game that I will spend money on(I like Trendy enough to promise this :)). I will probably buy all the extra content they release & compare the final cost to Dungeon Defenders(1) & its dlc's.


Well, they said we'll be able to buy pretty much all of the content (Except some cosmetics) with in-game currency... And considering the amount of time I spent on DD1 I would probably be able to buy everything just by playing, sooner or later.

But I love this game so much that I will probably end up throwing lots of money at them.

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But I love this game so much that I will probably end up throwing lots of money at them.


This image represent how I felt toward DD1 so well. :p

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funnily enough, everything that people are complaining about FTP will bring to DD2 is already rampant and accounted for in DD1.

trolls ruining builds? check
hackers? check
idiots? check
people with poor attitudes? check
pay to win? check (i dont care what you say, summoner and ev were requirements to play the game, and having them made the game so easy its not even funny)

making the game subscription based (as was what i inferred from the OP) really just means you have less people willing to play your game, which is worse for you in the long run. it also means that as the game gets older, your community dwindles because people are much less likely to invest time in, because they dont see the continued justification of even as little as 5 dollars.

free to play is the way to go for this game because the add-on content is generally pretty cheap. id much rather pay 2 dollars each time i wanted to unlock a specific character or map rather than 5 dollars every month for as long as i play the game.

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Sorry if i wasn't clear enough, but I meant that it'd be like a one-time purchase, not a subscription fee.

That aside though, it's always nice to hear the other side of the argument and other's opinions.

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The idea of preventing people from just making new free accounts is a valid idea. There are many games that are F2P where people just smurf all the time or try to hack and just make new accounts.

absolutely. reducing hackers and trolls by reducing accounts is a big start. DD2 can easily crash on the runway if hackers and trolls get all the leash they want right as the engines start. i feel these must be kept in check if DD2 is to succeed. when your game is F2P, people that have terrible experiences may just delete your game and play something else. it was free after all, no up front investment, no attachment to the game.
(been playing War Thunder a lot lately lol, so many airplane references).

hmm, do those gold farmers count as hackers or trolls? they ruin games pretty well too. even if there wasn't any hacking capability in DD, gold farmers grinding billions and billions of mana all day with AFK bots and selling it would still have blown up the trading and items in general without hacked items at all. it would be nice for DD2 to be the first game to ever combat these problems and stop them before they start. it would really set Trendy Entertainment apart from the corporations that don't care because of 50 million dollar week 1 profits.



F2P has me concerned a little.

i can't see how anyone can disagree. DD seems like an odd concept as a F2P. no offense, but DD feels much higher quality than F2P's generally are. most free games give far less effort in developing because there's always going to be some people willing to pay tons of money for no reason at all. but frankly, those aren't your dedicated fans, and those players will move on quickly if they find a game they like more. the dedicated players will pay less money at one time surely, but will end up with more revenue if they are enjoying themselves and feel okay with spending money because of the good time they're having.

that being the case, DD2 should probably feel like it's still the game we all love, plus more. Dungeon Defenders' success is of many factors, not any single one. changing too many of these factors could totally backfire.

but, we'll see how it goes. i'm still willing to keep an open mind in the hopes it'll still be very enjoyable.

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Sorry if i wasn't clear enough, but I meant that it'd be like a one-time purchase, not a subscription fee.

That aside though, it's always nice to hear the other side of the argument and other's opinions.


gotcha. thats essentially what it boils down to though, honestly. the initial game will be free to download, which for a company that wants massive exposure/saturation, that is the best way to do it. after that it is just paying to unlock heroes and maps, which is functionally the same as your standard subscription model MMO charging for expansions.

everything else just comes with the territory of it being an online game. 10 years ago you didnt have near the amount of people 20 or younger playing online as you do now, so that is why there is such a large complaint from player bases about one type of behavior or another.

if you want to get rid of griefers, the best way to do it is for trendy to make it so that only the builder of a tower can sell a tower, and by that i mean, the player that built the tower, not the character. the other way would just be a migraine for players.

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I think more versatile host options when setting up a game could solve a lot of issues that are being mentioned. Like being able to have only the host build/sell for example. In the end, if you don't like playing in pubs, just don't. DD1 has a fairly nice playerbase from what I have seen though. It would be nice to filter more of who can join the game too, based on different statistics so that only more experienced players can join.

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Have any of you looked at the current market of F2P games? The problem DD2 is going to face is "why play this game over X, when X is free." Look at LoL 12 MILLION daily players. (citation = http://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonevangelho/2012/10/12/league-of-legends-bigger-than-wow-more-daily-players-than-call-of-duty/).
So they have to lure people to play and INVEST in this game, monetarily and time wise. What easier way to do that than give it for free, then charge for hero's like every other moba is doing? Applying a 5-15 dollar price tag is going to make this game get overlooked and quick. Second, you are acting like getting banned is no big deal, while if you haven't spent money on the game there is nothing really to lose, but as soon as you start buying hero's that whole thing changes. That is lost money.

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i would rather see it as free to play if they ACTUALLY make it free to play. for example, in the original dungeon defenders, you could not continue playing the shards expansions without also purchasing the new heros (such as series EV). you literally could not complete content you PAID for without PAYING for something else. My fear with the F2P model is that we will see the same scenario i just outlined. you will literally NEED things they release to complete content within the game. The only F2P games ive ever liked are heroes of newerth and dota2 because you absolutely cannot buy anything other than cosmetic items. nothing you can buy will make you more competitive than another player.

I think the F2P model can easily work for the MOBA part of DD2. However for the coop portion I feel that eventually it will be pay to win. It is almost impossible for them to release new things for coop that people would actually pay for, unless it gives them some type of extremely unique bonus. we saw this in dd1, we literally saw it, there's no denying it. however due to the new things released such as series EV and summoner, ANY new content after that had to be balanced INCLUDING those things or else it would be far too easy for those that purchased them. that meant it became unplayable for those who did not wish to purchase those new heros.

However again i say, I'd love to see the coop be a F2P model if they can find a way to make it work, otherwise itll be an epic fail pay to win.

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That.
Free to play will be always attracting new people, and we will always have new players to play with :) and the community can grow bigger and bigger. Also easier to convince friends to join.


Pretty valid point, but still, the free to play model is a tricky one, I just hope trendy can nail it.

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