Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Of course, the random number generator we all know and love.
When I mean "Better" RNG, I don't mean "UB3R 1337 L337 G34R", I mean actual good items that live up to their name.

I've seen Ultimates with the quality of a Trans/Myth. I'll just say, make the item live up to their name. Make Ultimates good more of the time, not the quality of a Trans.

Campaign Map Rewards.. lol. I'll just take a Pawn Shot, 9 times out of 10 you'll probably end up getting a Pawn Shot with about 60^, 80% negative stats, and -100 Reload stat. With this, we should have a limit of 2-4 stats that end up with negatives, not almost every single one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I would assume that the RNG is fixed.


I would hope so. I'm not even to the point most people are at in DD1 farming gear, and it's already annoying.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Most of the problem with the RNG comes from it being extended far beyond what it was meant to be. I wasn't around at the start, but from what I hear back in the days when 74 was top level (or even 60) RNG worked fine and was annoying, but not broken.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
All the items should follow normal distribution for a given difficulty and wave. No rollovers and behind-the-scenes fixes, as they give bizarre and totaly abnormal results.
The simplest algorithm:

- Calculate min-max range based on wave and difficulty
- For each parameter, draw random number from range (min, max). You can use other distribution than uniform distribution to fine-tune item rarity.
- Calculate mana value as-it-is
- Set quality label based on its value
- You may want to saturate parameters that exceed quality threshold, buit this is already superflouos.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Most of the problem with the RNG comes from it being extended far beyond what it was meant to be. I wasn't around at the start, but from what I hear back in the days when 74 was top level (or even 60) RNG worked fine and was annoying, but not broken.


Very accurate.

Now my preference would be that Trendy goes with a method by which an item spawn is initiated, specific item type is randomly selected (hero restricted as required for weapons), then based in difficulty options / wave / map / etc. you randomly select the items quality, once quality is selected, then you have a range of stats and values for that selected quality. No negatives. Period. So map x on wave y on difficulty z equals a .001% chance of uber elite colossal godlike armor. Said armor stat range is 250 to 450 base, resists are 10 to 24, and ups are 300 to 600. Such a find would be worthy of it's label. Of course the percent chances of such good drops would have to be play tested to prevent munchkinism, but hey even godlies would be godly when they have no negs.

Stats would range higher, but attitudes toward drops wouldn't be bad since you would never get a bad ultimate or whatever the label was. And higher stats are ok when the game is designed for them from the beginning.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think a good way if they have item tiers again is to have the ranges for each tier make sense. A trans items min value should never be below a myths max value. It makes no sense to see a higher tier item and it being worse in every way than the item from previous tier.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Also if Trendy is using the same Unreal engine or even the latest version of it; please don't rely on the built in random functions ( i.e. rand() and frand() ). With the random number generation being a critical part of the game, using the basic function provides a very weak distribution. A better implementation would be a custom function to generate the random values with a seed based on something better than seconds after midnight.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I cannot believe this is here already!


Why not, It is one of the most obvious problems with the original game. As much as I enjoy trendy, and the support they put into their game, Their Rng in the nicest term I can use SUCKED. I am, however, hopeful that they will get it right this time and willing to give them a chance to do it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
-snip-

great points. but... those myths and godlies with like 300's or 400's on a single stat with the rest being negatives (man, godlies with 300 hero damage, and ~200 ^'s, with decent resists? the other negs, whatever, OP as hell haha)are so awesome, hehe. nobody would actually use them but you could in theory get one or two stats to ~1500 with godlies.

at the end of the day though i think i'd just rather have an RNG work properly. rather than making those totally silly items. they're only novelty, and aren't really usable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Most of the problem with the RNG comes from it being extended far beyond what it was meant to be. I wasn't around at the start, but from what I hear back in the days when 74 was top level (or even 60) RNG worked fine and was annoying, but not broken.


That has always been my impression of the RNG issues. Prior to Super Loot everything, in my opinion, was great. You found good loot and bad, farmed for the good gear and could get perfect items without worry of negatives or backfires.

Simply cannot wait for DD2.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
When talking to the devs at PAX, they told me that they were aware of the RNG issues in DD1, and that the DD2 RNG would be much better. Additionally, they said they had plans to ease the pain of grinding mindlessly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm sure RNG will be working properly. Go play the original dungeon defenders without the nightmare DLC. You will possibly rage at the RNG sometimes of course, but you could eventually get what you were looking for. The problem was the huge success of DD1 and the release of nightmare mode. The engine was unable to handle higher numbers properly and items started "rolling over" as a result. It was an issue that Trendy could not fix even if they had wanted to, and they told us that on a few occassions on the original forums.

Personally i look at the RNG they had setup that was ABLE to function as intended, and it worked very well. It definetely was not ez mode, but at the same time you didnt get godly items that rolled with "shining" stats. Even mythical items rolled fairly well, not many rollovers, although rollovers started happening sometimes with mythical after the lost eternia shards DLC.

All in all, I believe nobody should worry about this issue. It only existed because they *couldnt* fix it in dd1 =)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...
if they dont fix the RNG i dont think i will even bother playing the game

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...
The RNG has been completely reworked for DD2. We'll have more details on the RNG as we get closer to the co-op beta.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The RNG has been completely reworked for DD2. We'll have more details on the RNG as we get closer to the co-op beta.


Awesome! Thanks for the info.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...
The RNG has been completely reworked for DD2. We'll have more details on the RNG as we get closer to the co-op beta.


That makes me very happy! :D I am looking forward to seeing the details on the reworked RNG.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...
The RNG has been completely reworked for DD2. We'll have more details on the RNG as we get closer to the co-op beta.


<3 Happy Days!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...