Jump to content

So you want to break into Nightmare...


Recommended Posts

Hello everyone, I'm Sumnus, and I will be your guide for this seemingly endless, and sometimes futile journey into Nightmare.

I will warn you now, most of the things I will tell you, you have probably heard already. This will be the case, because I have been where you are now, browsing forum after forum; google search after google search; youtube video after youtube video; all in the name of trying to figure out how exactly you are expected to bridge the vast chasm between Insane difficulty, and Nightmare.

A little about my play experience thus far:

I have done all of the reading up on the game, from the Wikipedia, to these forums, to youtube, and everywhere in between, and I have found that nearly all of the information available, can be as much as two years out of date. Most of the players who are already in end game, have been there for about that long, and therefore they are not the most up to date on how to beat certain maps with lower stats of someone who hasn't been there already. That being said, I can not stress enough how important it is that you seek the guidance of these players when it's available. But more importantly, do so in a way that does not make you an annoyance. Most are willing to help, but joining their game and spamming questions in chat is not the way to go about it. Many of the end-game players are the ones making the youtube videos, and providing the builds for maps.

A little about my characters:

These are my current characters that are relevant to any of the information I provide:

Summoner:
Tower stats: 683/571/688/639
This builder is in low value Mythic gear, with the set bonus.

Series EV:
Tower stats: 605/386/328/284
This builder is still in nothing above Godly in terms of gear.

Squire:
Tower stats: 502/1035/396/981
This builder in low value Mythic gear, with the set bonus.

Apprentice:
Tower stats: 729/518/424/879
This builder is in low value Mythic gear, with the set bonus.

Monk:
Tower Stats: 295/899/500/623
This builder is in low value Mythic gear, with the set bonus.










All of my characters, with the exception of a few that i'm still power leveling to just experiment with things, or to change something up (for instance, i'm power leveling an Adept to switch over from my Apprentice for the extra movement speed building, since i was unaware of the difference between the two back when I first started playing the game), are level 74 or 75. I'll go into how i got there quickly, since most of the posts on this subject are still accurate today.

First and foremost, just play through the game. Watch the cut scenes at the start the levels, and just enjoy the play-through first. It's a good game, and once you finish your first play-through, the MMO aspect of the game really starts to shine when you have to grind up for mana and gear, so enjoy the gameplay as your first run through. On easy or medium, and even hard, your builds are a lot less important than on Nightmare (and to a less extent, Insane).


Now, for farming levels, the methods all vary, and all have their pros and cons depending on which heroes you have been leveling, and what their stats are. At the start of the game, always focus on tower stats, as they are the most important for power leveling additional characters for yourself later on. Personall, I rushed a squire, as his towers were amusing to me, and a lot of the guides back when I first started several months ago, were Squire-focused. In hindsight, I wish i had started with the Countess, since he was the primary builder, but he has worked out just fine.

Some things you should know for leveling:
Hardcore = more exp.
More players = more items allowed to stay on the ground, which means more mana per wave, but slightly more difficult waves.

Now, the route that I had used for leveling was playing through the normal game (I think i just ran though on medium difficulty all the way through at the start, if i recall correctly). Afterwards, when I was starting to want to focus on leveling, I ran the Ramparts on Insane all of the way until level 70, and then I ran Glitterhelm Caverns on Insane up until 74. Once you have one builder who can do this successfully, you can power level the rest of your characters for the rest of the game as often as necessary.

Now, once you've got a decent builder or two, you might be wanting to get some Mythic gear. If you are someone who doesn't want to buy gear at all from other players, and you purely want to get things on your own, the best advice I have for you is to run Survival mode non-stop on Insane. The mythics that drop in the late waves are not as good as what you could buy for a few million mana each, but they will be acquired with "real" gameplay, as opposed to just shopping around. I spent a few hours last night testing different maps on survival, and each of the first three maps are capable of dropping mythics on Nightmare, Survival mode, even deeper well. A good portion of the maps will drop Mythics in the later waves on Insane, also. While their quality leaves something to be desired, they are mythics. You will also be farming some decent(ish) pets by doing this, and finishing a map on Survival gives you a good pet at the end, especially if you have just been playing through like normal, and haven't purchased one.

Most of the guides I have read recently (though they seem to be from 2012, some even older), have said to run the first wave of Endless Spires on Nightmare to acquire your first Mythics. While this works even on the current patch with the Sharkens, and Ogre on wave 1, It is a little tricky if you're not running it with at least one other person, due to the low mana you start the map with. Another player helps a great deal. If you're like me, however, you are trying to do this alone (at least most of the time), and for me, that is where Survival came in.

This is mostly a lot of generic thoughts, I will edit this to make it more user-friendly over time, I just wanted somewhere to start taking notes as I play, to help players who are striving to go through the same thing I am, on a more recent patch than what seemed to be available for the most part.

Please note: I am not trying to replace the existing guides, as they have helped me more than I can go into in this post, but I am trying to help you interpret their advice, for a more up-to-date patch.

Since this post will be an on-going work in progress, and since I am (at least as of now) advocating the use of Survival, over spamming wave 1 of a map on Nightmare as your first method of acquiring Mythics, I'll end the post (temporarily) with the list of Survival Rewards that you will be able to acquire, along with the Mana and Exp from the farming process:

http://dungeondefenders.wikia.com/wiki/Survival_Rewards


*Any players who are willing/able to assist in a more up-to-date post like this, feel free to post in the thread, I would love to have an updated collaboration of information.


(Please note before proceeding: I have little to no intention of posting builds for maps. There's a plethora of builds from people far better at building than I am for these maps, my intention is to try to provide up to date information as to where those of us in the awkward middle ground can acquire Mythic gear, or enough mana to purchase Mythic gear from player shops.)


Insane Hardcore Survival Maps (For purpose of this guide, I will not use a controller to add a second character (though I do when I'm farming for non-guide purposes), with hopes of providing a slightly more accurate mana count at the end for people who do not split-screen in other characters.):

The Deeper Well:
If farming this map on Insane/Hardcore/Survival, I have found that After wave 10, Godly gear begins to drop (albeit not frequently at first), but am yet to see it any earlier than this. The quality is not very high, as one might expect, and naturally, as you progress, the gear gets a little better, and godly drops more frequently.
At wave 15, you receive the Familiar reward, as you will in each map (see the link above for Survival Rewards), and Godly gear becomes very noticeably more popular. This is also the first wave I have had the chests drop Godly gear, although that could just be from variance, and not necessarily a rule. Monsters have been dropping it periodically since wave 10.
After wave 25, you will receive your Giraffe on Treadmill. An example of one you may receive would be like this (one I received from this map specifically). http://imgur.com/INQluMG
**If you are having difficulties with the Dark Elf Warriors (Ninja/Assassin type guys), my advice would be ensnare auras and DPS towers, since they'll jump over your walls, which can cause headaches at lower stats.
Approximate mana earned: 4 mil

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Transcendent :

My first Transcendent piece dropped for me during wave 22 of Alchemical Labs. To give people an idea of the stats you can expect from gear dropped here, i'll post a picture of it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nightmare

Alchemical Labs:
For me at least, building this in non-survival was tricky for the first few runs. Not because of clearing the waves, but because of the boss. For myself, the solution to my troubles was using a huntress Ethreal Spike on the point where the boss first lands, and then one on each of the transformers in the corners of the "pit" near the crystal. Aside from those, I ran with four lowish towers for tanking the chokes, and then nothing but harpoons. The build for survival was drastically different. From my personal experience, harpoons were far more effective than the Apprentice towers for this map, due to the Djinns being much easier to deal with.

Survival
For survival specifically, I haven't run it solo just yet, but I thought i'd post what I have anyway. On a run with two players, upgrading everything to 3 stars, making it through wave 25 of survival, and keeping a small number of the drops that were upgrades; both players were awarded approximately 417 million mana.

The builders for completing this map on NM were rather low stat, but it was close. We had a Jester spinning the wheel to heal, and a summoner cycling through each choke point healing the "wall" (used minion walls with the tower buff beam from an EV). The stats on each builder are as follows, for some ballpark estimations. My hunch is this could be completed somewhat lower still.

Summoner: Tower stats: 683/571/688/639 These don't need to be anywhere near this high. Focus on tower health and damage I actually made it to wave 21 with the summoner and series ev both in godly gear, until the jester missed a heal on the wheel twice in a row, and 60 seconds of no heals screwed up the build with low stats.

Series EV: Tower stats: 605/386/328/284 This builder is still in nothing above Godly in terms of gear.

Squire: Tower stats: 502/1035/396/981 This builder in low value Mythic gear, with the set bonus.

Apprentice: Tower stats: 729/518/424/879 This builder is in low value Mythic gear, with the set bonus. Completely not necessary for this map at all, but I had a spare 5 DU at the end of my actual build, and decided to use it on an arbitrary fireball tower.

Monk: Tower Stats: 295/899/500/623 This builder was the most important part of my build by far. As you can see, rather low stats, especially considering these are in low-level mythic gear with a set bonus, and a random Giraffe on Treadmill that's not mythic.

*Edit: With the above stats running the map solo on Survival, I was able to get to wave 20 entirely alone. I'm 95% sure I would have finished, except I made a mistake and got killed, so I wasn't alive to repair, and ogres overran everything once the strength drain auras died. 261 million mana was earned just up to wave 20, and that was with keeping a good portion for an AFK shop. If i didn't keep anything, I would have broken 300 million mana easily without even finishing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
FYI, campaign rewards = easiest way to progress at certain points in the game (provided the player owns the DLC). Survival is good for farming lots of gear, but campaigns can be done with much lower stats.

Also, deeper well is not a good map for farming at ANY point in the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Also, deeper well is not a good map for farming at ANY point in the game.


Yeah, I know. I'm only doing it for completion of the guide, to give people an idea of the mana from each map.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also, deeper well is not a good map for farming at ANY point in the game.



Um, I remeber doing it like 2 times on insaneHC when I was restarting...(of course, I already played the game before, with restarting I mean to say that I played it all again because my saves whipped lol)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I guess I'm one of the oldies that have been in nm for awhile, but I recently did a test to try to find the bridge myself.

my conclusion: city in the cliffs.
with ****ty gear (100-200) I was able to beat hard hc repeatedly. getting lots of xp and mythical gear from the rewards.
As soon as you hit 74, all those pieces you accumulated let you go into lower level NM. which you can gear up and push further, allowing insane rewards to bolster you further. and then nm rewards.

not sure if you found that. I am super tired and only glazed your post :P my bad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I agree entirely. That's what I did for mad XP and amazing myth/trans pets that can get pretty great builder stats. CitC is a god-send to end-insane players.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I guess I'm one of the oldies that have been in nm for awhile, but I recently did a test to try to find the bridge myself.

my conclusion: city in the cliffs.
with ****ty gear (100-200) I was able to beat hard hc repeatedly. getting lots of xp and mythical gear from the rewards.
As soon as you hit 74, all those pieces you accumulated let you go into lower level NM. which you can gear up and push further, allowing insane rewards to bolster you further. and then nm rewards.

not sure if you found that. I am super tired and only glazed your post :P my bad.


I will try this also, but since you have tried it, do you have any information about when the Mythics started dropping, or a rough estimate on how much mana you earned? I'd love to just quote someone for information about each map to gather it all in one place.


I agree entirely. That's what I did for mad XP and amazing myth/trans pets that can get pretty great builder stats. CitC is a god-send to end-insane players.


Was this referencing City in the Cliffs? If you're getting myth/trans pets, you were probably already on the NM difficulty?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...