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There are always the same defenses seen in games.

often:
Apprentice:Fireball
Squire: Harpoon
Monk: strength, ensare, electric
Huntress: gas
EV: Buff Beam, Reflection


sometimes:
Apprentice: Magic Missile
Squire: Wall, Bouncer
Monk: heal
Huntress: inferno, proxy
EV: wall, proton

so lets talk about the others:
Apprentice: Blockade, LT, DST
Squire: Bowling, Slicer
Monk: enrage
Huntress: darkness
EV: shock

LT, DST, Bowling, Slicer seem to use up too many DUs, or dont make enough damage for their cost.
It seems Fireball and Harpoons are overpowered compared to them.
Monk auras seem to be so effective that you cant go without them on nm, or at least have a good advantage.

I know this is not realistic, but i would like to see all towers being usable for nm survival.

Question:
At what DU cost would you favor Bowling over Harpoon?
Or a Lightning Tower instead of Lightning Aura?

Atm it seems to often to be a no brainer, you put up a wall of Minions, Strength Aura, Ensare and/or Gas, some Harpoons and or Fireball, many or all on a Buff Beam, some Reflections. Would be cool if a Bouncer or Slicer would be a viable choice as a wall, or some app towers beside Fireball.
And a squire Wall could make enough damage so it would be worth to put it in the normal direction and not reversed. Or recompile the aggro numbers.

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to expensiv, to weak, other classes do have better alternates

its a little bit like evolution

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i use shock beams over EV walls and protons anyday, i stack them with auras and put them in front of minion walls, it's usually enough to kill strugglers.

Protons are only effective if the enemy stops on top of them, but it really only adds damage in the end, while shock provides damage and stun.


EDIT: Oh and, lightning towers are probably more usefull than MM, more dps, massive range, chain effect, slows down enemies.

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I use a Darkness + Inferno trap combo for everything instead of gas. Gas is a crutch for the weak I avoid as soon as my stats allow me to.

Every video game has weapons/towers/etc that people dont use. This doesnt bother me in the least.

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I'm afraid no amount of buffs would help Bowling Ball Turrets, Bouncer Blockades, Spike Blockades or Slice 'n Dice Blockades much at this point. The reason is simple, currently the most powerful threats in the game - Copters and Djinns - come from above. Harpoons, Fireballs and Archer Minions can damage enemies both on the ground and in the air, Bowling Balls and the remaining Squire towers are limited to those on the ground. To give those towers a new life, either Copters and Djinns would have to be nerfed into non-existence, or a new ground-based enemy would have to be introduced that would be more powerful than both aerial Shards monsters combined.

The sad thing is, Bowling Balls are actually pretty amazing. In the right circumstances, they are capable of creating a sea of iron where nothing that walks on legs can survive. I used to use those towers almost exclusively until, well, Djinns came out, but the ability to reach around corners and down slopes would still warrant their use in many cases if it weren't for the reasons mentioned above. I'd say lowering the DU to 6 or 5 would make it way easier to work them into many setups, though likely still none where you are actually limited by DU or time (such as Crystalline Dimension).

As for Spike Blockades and Slice n' Dice Blockades, they are flawed by design. As an offensive tower they require an enemy to be within melee range to deal mediocre damage (which makes them useless against Sharkens), and as walls they are nowhere as DU-efficient as EV beams. To warrant their use, they should be given completely new roles and effects, or be replaced by different towers altogether.

The Bouncer Blockade is interesting because it's like an actual GOOD version of Spike/Slice. I could see it theoretically being used anywhere that a 4 DU Physical Beam is used... except that's still not a whole lot of places. And the Bouncer's awesome DPS is overshadowed by the fact it isn't applied until the enemy is in melee range - by which time they are already webbed, snared, drained, and getting destroyed by concentrated fire from Harpoons, Fireballs and/or Archers. Like Bowling Balls, Bouncer is a good tower that was cast into oblivion by new Nightmare mechanics.

Lightning Towers are also very close to being awesome in my opinion. What they have going for them is that they're essentially an Electric Aura with nearly unlimited range and higher damage; what they have against them is cooldown, the slight randomness of effect, and the fact that while being a physical (and therefore breakable/pushable) tower they lack the sheer damage output of other physical towers. I'd like to see a slight buff here, like slightly improved damage, decreased DU cost, or reduced cooldown.

I wouldn't agree that Darkness Trap is useless. Unless you have godly aura radius, it can cover more enemies than a Strength Drain Aura in many cases. The fact that it's limited to ground only is not relevant in this case because Djinns and Copters lack elemental immunities.

As for Enrage Aura and Ethereal Spike Trap, they just do absolutely nothing that isn't achieved by Gas Traps and Proximity Traps more efficiently. Ethereal Spike desperately lacks damage output and coverage for a highest-tier tower with an elemental affinity, and the cost and decreased radius of Enrage means that Gas Traps are almost always a better use of DU. Similarly to Spike and Slice blockades, I'd like to see completely new roles and effects on these towers.

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...

Add that SnD & Lightning towers have no rate scaling, so while they absolutely destroy early on in the game, their damage becomes more and more mediocre as other towers attack faster.

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so lets talk about the others:
Apprentice: Blockade, LT, DST
Squire: Bowling, Slicer
Monk: enrage
Huntress: darkness
EV: shock


Rather than just be about damage output, I'd like to see the following effects added:
Blockade - make wider
LT - stun
DST - piercing, always favor flyers, small damage increase
Bowling - always firing (not just when enemies are in range). That way, I could get really creative in bouncing it off walls.
Slice and Dice - can build towers on it. build on the blades to have towers whirling around (proton beams would work well). I'm sure this is too complicated, and they'll never do anything like this.

Enrage auras are actually very good at clogging, and those with lower stats or doing the RTS achievement should appreciate them. You can actually beat Aquanos nm survival with very low stat if you use them. Making them do more damage actually makes them worse.

Darkness traps are fine. They use less du than Strength Drain if you are just trying to strip one lane. I use them on Tavern Defense NHMCMM survival.

Shock beams can shock flyers I hear. This makes them useful for empty crystal builds, like Sky City, when the builder is lacking stats to kill gold flyers with just auras and traps.

For Summoner, I never use orcs or dews.

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There are always the same defenses seen in games.

sometimes:
Apprentice: Magic Missile
Squire: Wall, Bouncer
Monk: heal
Huntress: inferno, proxy
EV: wall, proton

so lets talk about the others:
Apprentice: Blockade, LT, DST
Squire: Bowling, Slicer
Monk: enrage
Huntress: darkness
EV: shock

Question:
At what DU cost would you favor Bowling over Harpoon?
Or a Lightning Tower instead of Lightning Aura?

Before you get into high end NM, all towers can be built for fun and still win.
A: harpoons shoot air, BB do not. unless they were 2DU, I wouldn't pick them over harpoons just for the DU.
A2: Lighting tower can't be an alternative to lighting aura unless they massively improve how many targets it hits and how often it adds new targets.

As for magic missile, the only reason it's ever used is when you have < 5 DU for building a tower (not a trap).
Bouncers are fun and can still be used, but they are not ranged, so they really are situational and vs ogres end up needing too many repairs. The wall??? lolz too much DU for a wall (and yes, DU is too low)
Bowling is fun, but doesn't hit air and without piercing, the DU/DPS just doesn't work for most maps. Slice n' dice... lol.... lol...
Enrage can still be used if you don't upgrade it, but it basically became useless with djinn introduced to the game as it can't be upgraded as you must build it outside of the majority of your tower dps.
Darkness is useful for removing elemental immunity for less DU than strength drain, but the range is much lower and it does not reduce damage, so it's not that useful where ogres smash your wall (and range can hurt it a lot).
Shock beam has such tiny range... grrr... I only use it around cyrstals without towers so they can stun anything that gets past gas traps.

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Add that SnD & Lightning towers have no rate scaling, so while they absolutely destroy early on in the game, their damage becomes more and more mediocre as other towers attack faster.


slice and dice is never good, and is never going to be good just because of its principle of operation. it is either used as a wall or near a wall with the intention of doing damage, which means it will always draw aggro, which means it will always get damaged and more often than not get destroyed (walls period just do not work with the current strengths that ogres and copter ogres reach). and their 8 DU and it is really hard to justify their cost outside of hard mode.

lightning towers though, the attack rate scaling is an important thing to note, but another important thing to note is their target prioritizing and reprioritizing once they have began attacking. if, like what happened to me the other night keeps happening, where a goblin copter came floating through the bridge on glitterhelm and the lightning tower targets the copter and the copter keeps dropping flares and the tower never reprioritizes to hit the ogre 15 feet away and keeps wasting its duration on the flares that the copter **** outs, then thats 7 wasted DU and it makes them useless outside of hard mode.

i think though, more so than saying that the other towers are in need of a boost, i think their prevalence in the current state of the game says more about how the difficulty of the game has evolved in comparison to the effectiveness of towers as a whole. ill be honest, every one of my builds uses the same basic formula, which is SEE combo, 3+ archers, 1 spider, 1-2 mages, buff beam, gas + inferno trap, and 1-2 proton beams depending on ogre traffic at each choke. the effectiveness of this type of system just cannot be matched by combinations of other towers because of the shortcomings that are associated with them.

there are really only 2 mobs that anyone has to be concerned with in the vast majority of the game, and that is ogres and copter ogres. and now that they have 50, 60, 90 million HP, i dont care how many harpoons you have, they are just not going to be effective at taking them out. especially if you dont have a strength drain to rein them in.

combining what Sonos and dhub said, at certain points in almost every game, there are certain options that are no longer viable. it is no different in this game. even playing your basic smart phone tower defense game, there are certain points where using the same building logic will not progress you any further.

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I would like to see slice and dice reflect projectiles in random directions, and have a tiny bit more range so ogres can't out range them

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