Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Odinwolfe

Eternal Limbo.

Recommended Posts

Posting a cleaner version of my latest post now, my apologies to whichever mod felt my post was too inappropriate to leave on the forums.

Yes, it was advertised as both. Not as one, not as the other. Saying either one doesn't mean 100% of the game is playable one way or the other.


Actually, it kinda does. If the game says it has solo gameplay, and the co-op campaign is the same as the original levels, with only a few tweaks in regards to balancing it to be more difficult to compensate for more players, then I as a consumer should reasonably expect to be able to complete all of the said game's content with or without other people.

Its false advertising otherwise- If Trendy didn't say that the DLC was completable without other players, its their responsibility for making DLC that falsely advertised content, and it is their obligation to fix it.

Multiplayer players are just as entitled as single player players, but for some reason every solo player feels more entitled and thinks the game should cater to them over everyone else.


We really don't want special treatment. We just want to be able to complete the DLC the same way we beat the rest of the game- and Trendy never told us we had to pair up. I really don't understand how equal treatment=entitlement.

We bought the game as it was advertised as being solo. Granted, not all of us bought it for solo play, and some of us even bought it exclusively for multiplayer, but some people bought it because there was an option for solo play. We just want the same opportunities that everybody else has gotten. We all bought the game, didn't we? Just because we don't want to play with others doesn't mean we should have a harder time because of it.

We solo players don't want to be treated better than people who play multiplayer, we just want an equal playing field.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[QUOTE]Its false advertising otherwise[/QUOTE]It's not false advertising. The game has single player gameplay in it. Nowhere does the phrase "single player" imply that 100% of all bits of the game content are completable in single player. In fact, this is rarely the case in games unless they are ONLY single player. Of course, I can redact this statement if you can show me that all the other games on steam that list both single player and multi-player have every single piece of game content playable solo.

The "single player" label on the Steam product page is not quantitative statement of the amount of single player play available.

I'm sorry that we're in disagreement here, but neither you or I is likely to convince the other of anything at this point. I'd appreciate it at this point if you'd stick to the current discussion at hand (See rest of posts on this page).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Here is what I don't understand, they said they can't fix the RNG. That it is too deep into the coding of the game or some bs. I won't even begin to act like I know anything about coding. However, it seems that there was a quick patch when King's game came out because it was dropping good gear. How come they can't easily reverse this to allow some to drop again. As stated, they aren't going to actively support the game beyond the end of this year. Why not tweak the rewards for all maps like they did for King's game when they debuffed them? I switched over from PS3 just under two months ago. I have crashed head long into a ceiling that I can't pass anymore. I spend 4-6 hours a night playing survival on Aqua and Misty and MAYBE, find one piece or armor I can use every 4 - 5 days.


The quality of gear for the King's game map never went under any serious alterations, according to the patch notes. What the King's Game map changed was the enemy difficulty, because the scaling was apparently bugged- allowing people to complete the map rather easily. As far as I'm aware the loot hasn't undergone any specific changes (except for a slight buff in the gear to compensate for the patch that increased the level's difficulty).

It's not false advertising. The game has single player gameplay in it. Nowhere does the phrase "single player" imply that 100% of all bits of the game content are completable in single player. In fact, this is rarely the case in games unless they are ONLY single player. Of course, I can redact this statement if you can show me that all the other games on steam that list both single player and multi-player have every single piece of game content playable solo.

The "single player" label on the Steam product page is not quantitative statement of the amount of single player play available.

I'm sorry that we're in disagreement here, but neither you or I is likely to convince the other of anything at this point. I'd appreciate it at this point if you'd stick to the current discussion at hand (See rest of posts on this page).


Of course this isn't the case for most games, but in a game that allows you to play on such maps without other people, one would have to imagine that such maps wouldn't have been added if Trendy's intention was to only make them beatable with other people, or why they would bother to change hp values for enemies in solo play in the first place on Nightmare. Either way, if it was practically a requirement for people to play multiplayer to beat this DLC there should have made mention to it at least in the DLC section of the steam page. Plus, like I said before, the only changes to these maps from single to multiplayer are differences in enemy HP values and spawn numbers, so one can reasonably argue that these maps should be beatable without the help of other people.

And I don't think this discussion is necessarily off-topic, seeing as it was brought up as recently as the second out of the 3 pages in this thread. The whole thread is about the apparent lack of updates for the game as of late, and people have been filling it with complaints concerning balance and the like. My post is related to balance, so why is it really off topic?

Just because we're unlikely to convince each other of our viewpoints doesn't mean that logical, meaningful conversation can't be carried out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Here is what I don't understand, they said they can't fix the RNG. That it is too deep into the coding of the game or some bs. I won't even begin to act like I know anything about coding. However, it seems that there was a quick patch when King's game came out because it was dropping good gear. How come they can't easily reverse this to allow some to drop again. As stated, they aren't going to actively support the game beyond the end of this year. Why not tweak the rewards for all maps like they did for King's game when they debuffed them? I switched over from PS3 just under two months ago. I have crashed head long into a ceiling that I can't pass anymore. I spend 4-6 hours a night playing survival on Aqua and Misty and MAYBE, find one piece or armor I can use every 4 - 5 days.


i must agree. the broken RNG needs fixed if they never fix anything else. im sick of running 60-70 hours of NMHCMM sky city all the way to wave 30 and seeing ONE ultimate armor piece, and THEN that one piece is utter trash junk **** that isnt even better than mythicals roflmfao.

unless the RNG rollover issue is addressed in SOME WAY, i wont be playing anymore until they make a DD2. there's no point in farming, it's literally impossible to obtain loot legitametely. ive run roughly 4-500 hours of shards survival maps to maximum waves and ive looted 4 pieces of supreme or ultimate armor that were actually better than trans counterparts rofl. so after all that time farming suvival my 5 builders and 2 dps heros are still 24/28 armor pieces transcendant. i dont expect the game to be easy but 4-500 hours of farming the HIGHEST survival loot maps to get 4 pieces of upgrade armor is beyond absurd. getting a full set is quite frankly impossible hehe. those 4 pieces are all different types btw so those 4 pieces are mixed with 3 trans each.

that many hours is not "bad luck", it's proof that there is a problem, and it's proof that anybody with full sets of ult gear either hack or got it from a hacker xD and i dont mean full sets of ult gear that are worse than mythical, i mean those guys that seem to have found ult armor with 3-4 max stats. that stuff dont exist w/o hacks sorry to burst yer bubble. whether you paid for it or traded high value items like cubes, it is hacked gear.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Changing some drop locations would actually go a long way on specific maps. On aquanos in particular, I would agree that the west copter spawn in particular is hard to stop, even if you have someone there waiting to shoot the copters. This is actually counter to what copters were originally described to do, which is drop enemies behind your defenses. The copters from that spot in Aquanos don't go anywhere near your defenses before dropping the ogre. This is also part of why I proposed dropping copter HP as well as the threshold for dropping. If you're paying attention to them, you should be able to stop them. They should only threaten players who are not aware of or trying to stop them. I'd liken this to the ghost in starcraft. You gotta kill him before the nuke blows up your base. That's essentially what copters are doing, dropping nukes. But the difference is, a ghost in starcraft is a squishy unit that is easily stopped. Copters are actually pretty beefy, so they don't really have a hard time getting away with their "nuclear launch." I feel that if the copter is going to drop such a dangerous thing (That part is fine with me) then it needs to be easily stoppable.


I have found out that copters are very manageable for ranged DPS characters in Mistymire Forest. They come only from two directions, they are predictable; and most importantly, they can be shot down more or less comfortably from within the safety of the defenses and forced to drop their ogres into the abyss, allowing a single dedicated hero to eliminate their threat completely, given enough attention. Like it was supposedly intended to be.

Aquanos is indeed an entirely different story. The ogres are dropped around the corner from two of the crystals, where defenses are hardly likely to cover, shooting them all down is implausible, and shooting them down at a point where the ogres would drop to their death seems nigh impossible as it would require the (squishy) ranged hero to venture into an area that is already swarming with enemy units. King's Game is a similar case; the ogres are dropped behind the large chess piece on the upper layer, where the copters are concealed from the defenses and the heroes.

Now Sky City at least gives you a clear shot at the incoming copters, although given the size, structure and difficulty of the map, actually keeping all of them at bay doesn't seem possible unless you can afford to have three dedicated ranged heroes to perform only that task. And from my experience, most of the time the players are too busy dealing with the regular and already dropped ogres to think about the incoming ones.

To be honest, considering the long history of pathing problems in DD, I doubt all the issues of copter missile range, ogre landing zones, and the hero manageability of either could ever be plausibly ironed out. I think I understand what Trendy wanted to achieve with copters and I appreciate the intent, but like you have pointed out, it simply doesn't seem to be working out in the majority of the maps; there is just too many of them, they come from too many or inconvenient directions, and most of the time you are too busy attending other threats to devote your attention to copters. So I think alternative solutions will be necessary.

Another interesting side note: In the DDDK, there exist copters that drop most of the different enemies in the game. Super goblins and DEMs and such wouldn't have been a bad idea, so I don't know why we only got ogres.


I also think that would be interesting. A friend of mine has suggested a similar thing in another thread, copters randomly dropping ogres, DEW squads, spider swarms etc. instead of only ogres. If copters dropped an ogre only occasionally as opposed to spamming them for the entire duration of the wave, I'd be fine with those copter ogres being buffed even further.

edit: one thing I've never had copters move so directly above my defenses that reflect beams were useless. Not saying it can't happen, but it hasn't happened to me.


Happens to me all the time in KG. When my character is standing on the lower level, the copters from the higher level keep shooting me from above, requiring me to place additional reflection beams and yet sometimes managing to bypass even those extra beams.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It's not false advertising. The game has single player gameplay in it. Nowhere does the phrase "single player" imply that 100% of all bits of the game content are completable in single player. In fact, this is rarely the case in games unless they are ONLY single player. Of course, I can redact this statement if you can show me that all the other games on steam that list both single player and multi-player have every single piece of game content playable solo.

The "single player" label on the Steam product page is not quantitative statement of the amount of single player play available.

I'm sorry that we're in disagreement here, but neither you or I is likely to convince the other of anything at this point. I'd appreciate it at this point if you'd stick to the current discussion at hand (See rest of posts on this page).


Implying that either should not be upset about the bias nature of the game is about as stupid as it gets. You seem to think that after people buy a game, they should just accept that SOLO comes with a giant brick wall, to which you need rappel gear to get over. Thats not the way consumerism works, ESPECIALLY when said wall was created post launch, and obviously not advertised. They did a bad job of creating a handicap difficulty for the AI, stop trying to cover that up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[QUOTE]That's false. I cleared easy~insane, broke into NM, and cleared every campaign map up until CD without ever buying a single item from a shop, as did my friends (not always playing together). Yes, I did some survival runs, but I didn't spam them for days/weeks on end, and I don't feel that what I did was "unreasonable."
[/QUOTE]

Yea I have to agree. I play mostly solo and with one buddy, we never buy/sell/trade gear, even betweent he two of us as we think it's all about getting yoru own stuff.
I play(ed) maybe 3 or 4x as much as he does, and we eventually beat most things. on NM, excepting Palantir, Boss Rush, CD, Sky City NM, and a number of challenges. We used to routinely run Aquanos NMHC to completion for farming.
I think the game is fairly well balanced for multi and solo play, all except the large maps need more build time for solo players, so not really feeling that sense of entitlement. :)

I agree chopper ogres could still use tweaking, but I guess the one thing that bugs me most and I THINK it's what this thread (and many others) is all about, is the end game, RNG, and Loot.
As a comparison, Diablo 3 was it that everyone eagerly anticipated then had an incredibly bad ending, so bad it made the non gaming news. DDef is similar IMO except that it took over 6 months for me to reach the point of disappointment. I guess you could say I got my money's worth with all that playing, but it's still incredibly disappointing to get near the end and hitting a wall that Trendy knows is there, admitted has problems, and won't fix.

Claiming I won't buy DD2 is a lame attempt at influencing Trendy, and to be honest. I think that they will not make the same mistake twice. I am betting DD2 will be more satisfying at the end game after all of this hubbub about how poorly DD ended.

I know it's been stated nothing will be done, but I will keep suggesting.
How about a 2nd RNG for certain maps/settings to help the end game along, or has been suggested, minumum levels for gear?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yea I have to agree. I play mostly solo and with one buddy, we never buy/sell/trade gear, even betweent he two of us as we think it's all about getting yoru own stuff.
I play(ed) maybe 3 or 4x as much as he does, and we eventually beat most things. on NM, excepting Palantir, Boss Rush, CD, Sky City NM, and a number of challenges. We used to routinely run Aquanos NMHC to completion for farming.
I think the game is fairly well balanced for multi and solo play, all except the large maps need more build time for solo players, so not really feeling that sense of entitlement. :)

I agree chopper ogres could still use tweaking, but I guess the one thing that bugs me most and I THINK it's what this thread (and many others) is all about, is the end game, RNG, and Loot.
As a comparison, Diablo 3 was it that everyone eagerly anticipated then had an incredibly bad ending, so bad it made the non gaming news. DDef is similar IMO except that it took over 6 months for me to reach the point of disappointment. I guess you could say I got my money's worth with all that playing, but it's still incredibly disappointing to get near the end and hitting a wall that Trendy knows is there, admitted has problems, and won't fix.

Claiming I won't buy DD2 is a lame attempt at influencing Trendy, and to be honest. I think that they will not make the same mistake twice. I am betting DD2 will be more satisfying at the end game after all of this hubbub about how poorly DD ended.

I know it's been stated nothing will be done, but I will keep suggesting.
How about a 2nd RNG for certain maps/settings to help the end game along, or has been suggested, minumum levels for gear?


In a business like the game industry, not buying future products from a game company is one of the few ways people can get game companies to notice something's wrong. When the money stops flowing in, people tend to be a little more responsive to complaints about their game. Not that its the only way, of course- these forums are living proof of that- but we rarely get contact from the developers anymore, the only patch on the horizon can only be seen as containing a buff to Super Legendary costume speeds which would probably affect less than 10% of the PC playerbase (because lets face it, those maps are freakin' brutal) Deciding to boycott future products is one of the few effective ways we have a voice (if it actually works of course- see L4D2 and CoD:MW2 boycotts).

If Trendy doesn't want to fix the problems with the current game now, it doesn't send a great vibe that there next product will be quality-line content. They may not make the same mistakes twice, but when you see a company like this unwilling to fix its game's problems because they're either working on a new game (or claiming stuff like the RNG is beyond fixing now), it doesn't exactly give confidence that their next game's endgame will be bug-free.

I won't be buying Trendy's next product until I'm darn well sure that its balanced equally for solo and multiplayer play, doesn't have grinding to ludicrous levels, and actually can be fun to advance in.

And as for the solo comment, you haven't played it all solo (your friend played with you some of the time), so while you know that some of the content can be completed without the help of another player, you don't know that it all can. We solo players, however, have seen the effects firsthand, at one point or another.

All solo players want is to be able to get through content without relying on help or getting carried by others. Thats it. Equality is not the same word as entitlement.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
To be honest, all I am hoping for at this point is ONE last big update. As I see it, it should contain at least 2 things:

1) Balance hero DPS so that all classes except Summoner, when using gear of comparable quality (CD/Sky City loot, Classic's Eagle, Pawn Shot), are capable of dealing out DPS within an ACCEPTABLE MARGIN of each other. A difference of 10-20% is within an acceptable margin, a difference of 100-300% is not. That basically means buffing Huntress, Apprentice, and all of the genderswapped classes.

Also, currently the tankiest classes are also the heaviest hitters. That needs to be changed.

2) Since the RNG will not be changing, give us some other significant means of customizing our characters that will not be reliant on the RNG. Buffing the hero skill points like I have suggested is one possible solution, Halagren's suggestion of armor tokens is another.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
for some reason every solo player feels more entitled and thinks the game should cater to them over everyone else.


With all due respect, Alhanalem, that's a rather ridiculous assertion. Given that the game scales based upon the number of players, expecting the single player scaling to be more reasonable for solo play (and actually rewarding for the time and effort put into it) is not the product of a sense of entitlement, nor does it take away from multiplayer play. I'm not sure where your head was at with that post, but it's nowhere near the realm of reality, in my opinion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think what's worse than the game being balanced more towards multiplayer is that it that the shards were balanced around DLC characters.

If you bought the complete shards DLC pack, you needed to buy future DLC that wasn't released yet to be bale to get the most out of it. Now, a lot of us here bought all the DLC so we take it for granted and don't really think about it. But I could see how some people would get upset that they now need the EV which came out after Misty, and how Sky City survival was balanced with the summoner in mind. Simply put, you cannot complete content that you paid for unless you bought additional content that came out a later date. I wonder how many people just felt completely frustrated and just quit and didn't even bother to make a post on the forums because of this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Wonder how many people actually believe they would dare make DD2 their next project at this point.

I don't even think Trendy is dumb enough to make that mistake so soon. I do think that they eventually will if they remain as the same team for a couple years and enjoy some success, but if they treat their next game like this one, then I will not be getting my hopes up for a high quality game as their third release.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[QUOTE]I think what's worse than the game being balanced more towards multiplayer is that it that the shards were balanced around DLC characters.[/QUOTE]As stated in this weeks digest, this is actually not true in regards to shards and DLC characters., even though I actually had that impression myself (and that's kinda what ended up happening despite the intended balance). Of course, this does mean that some adjustments should be made, because while I do see it as possible, it's more difficult that it perhaps should be.

The game is not balanced "for" multiplayer any more than it is balanced for single player. In fact it was features like Hero Swapping that were specifically created to close the gap in natural advantage of having multiple bodies- That's not an advantage you can eliminate completely, however. But the only thing you can really do, which is not realistic from a design/development standpoint, is scale the levels down so that the extra traversal time a single player needs doesn't hinder their ability to play alone. The only reason multiplayer is truly easier is the only thing that cannot be changed about it: having multiple players. Only level design or artificial single player advantages (run faster/build faster/more time/whatever) can compensate for this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
As stated in this weeks digest, this is actually not true in regards to shards and DLC characters., even though I actually had that impression myself (and that's kinda what ended up happening despite the intended balance). .


I don't see any feasible way to complete survival on Karathiki, Aqua or Sky City NMHCMM with out the EV (and the summoner for Sky City). And with all the new changes I don't see it being done on Moraggo or Misty either.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
As stated in this weeks digest, this is actually not true in regards to shards and DLC characters., even though I actually had that impression myself (and that's kinda what ended up happening despite the intended balance). Of course, this does mean that some adjustments should be made, because while I do see it as possible, it's more difficult that it perhaps should be.

The game is not balanced "for" multiplayer any more than it is balanced for single player. In fact it was features like Hero Swapping that were specifically created to close the gap in natural advantage of having multiple bodies- That's not an advantage you can eliminate completely, however. But the only thing you can really do, which is not realistic from a design/development standpoint, is scale the levels down so that the extra traversal time a single player needs doesn't hinder their ability to play alone. The only reason multiplayer is truly easier is the only thing that cannot be changed about it: having multiple players. Only level design or artificial single player advantages (run faster/build faster/more time/whatever) can compensate for this.


Not quite. What Jeremy said was, "It's balanced around any combination of 4 heroes (definitely not meant to be taken on be a lone player). Certain missions can be somewhat easier with the DLC heroes in the mix, but it has been designed to be beatable by any combo."

1. Nightmare was never made for solo-play
1b. Karathiki....
2. "Any combination of 4 players" never specified that nightmare is possible without EV/Summoner. They just said it was easier.
2b. Never said they didn't use dlc characters in every combination.
2c. Due to hero-swapping, never stated they balanced on active hero or every hero used.
2d. Dps monks (need I say more....)
3. Never specified between regular and survival.

Although this is overly-critical, you have to admit that answer is incredibly ambiguous.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The biggest problem with trendy is there lack of anticipation on about everything.
I started playing on console, we had the dun_def spider problem that poped up on my first mystmire game, then morraggo freezes then aquanos's broken loot.
At this point i played on pc somewhere around april... i was so pleased until NM. it was long, boring to get loot just to survive a few waves and start again, but however i manadeg to go through.
Then came the flying ogras... what a mess, at least 5 patches to get something barely playable, no DU scaling on any maps, ogras stucked on different old maps... I'm forgetting some other problems but my point is that Trendy doesn't test any of their products.
All of these problems were so obvious they could have all been foreseen. Sending patches, DLC, at your face this way is not what consummers deserve, even in an indie company.
A simple 10 min test of all of these problems would have avoid all this mess, for instance, it has been allmost 6 month that the freezes started, it's really a shame.
Will Trendy games be able to anticipate obvious problems in the future ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[QUOTE]I think what's worse than the game being balanced more towards multiplayer is that it that the shards were balanced around DLC characters.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE]As stated in this weeks digest, this is actually not true in regards to shards and DLC characters., even though I actually had that impression myself (and that's kinda what ended up happening despite the intended balance). [/QUOTE]

Right. The game may not have been intentionally balanced around DLCs but it is.

"In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[QUOTE]2. "Any combination of 4 players" never specified that nightmare is possible without EV/Summoner. They just said it was easier.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE] Certain missions can be somewhat easier with the DLC heroes in the mix, but it has been designed to be beatable by any combo."[/QUOTE]Specifically states that it's easier with DLC characters but intended to be beatable by any characters. It would be wrong to say "easier w/ dlc *BUT* beatable by any if the "any" always included a DLC character, because that would negate the first statement- "easier with" doesn't mean "impossible without."

[QUOTE]I don't see any feasible way to complete survival on Karathiki, Aqua or Sky City NMHCMM with out the EV (and the summoner for Sky City).[/QUOTE]I'm sure it can be done if your stats are high enough (e.g. as good as you can get). Also, Karathiki is a "Bonus" mission, and is not required as part of beating the game. Unless it's required for Trancendent Survivalist (Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure it's not), you don't even have to play karathiki to get all the achievements.

-edit- OK, wrong, no karathiki means no Monsters in my Pocket and by extension no ultimate defender. Still. Achievements are optional extras, and are not a requirement of completing the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I thought Karathiki was included with the shards pack though.

You would need perfect fully upgraded ultimate gear on every character to have even of prayer of chance at making it to the later waves Sky City survival without the Summoner or EV.

I know what was said in the digest, but it is simply unrealistic. If anyone disagrees with me and thinks it's feasible to beat the shards map survival without the EV and summoner, I would like hear your strategies because you'll definitely have some build ideas that everyone on the forum could greatly benefit from.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[QUOTE]I thought Karathiki was included with the shards pack though. [/QUOTE]It is, but it's not required for completion. That is, you don't have to beat it to go to Crystalline Dimension and beat the final boss and the game.

Also, when it is said "beat the game", that means the campaign missions (original and shards) and crystalline dimension. It doesn't mean any map tagged as a bonus map, and it doesn't mean survival. Yes, you might (ok- not just "might") need to do play survival to get good enough gear, but actually *beating* survival (originally thought to be endless before people discovered it actually wasnt) is not a required component of beating the game. Remember that "beat the game" and "Completed everything there is to complete" are not the same thing. The game has to be beatable by everyone, but 100% completion of all maps on all modes doesn't have to be (doesn't mean you can't try of course).

Terrorhedron 3-D Tower Defense, for instance, has a "Mathematically Impossible" difficulty setting. I never saw anyone complain that they couldn't complete it. Yes, not a great comparison, but it's not necessarily a crime to have something unfeasible to beat in a game, as long as it's not the core game that you need to play through to consider it "beat" and see the credits and stuff. That's just how I feel though, and I respect your opinion if you disagree with this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Claiming I won't buy DD2 is a lame attempt at influencing Trendy, and to be honest. I think that they will not make the same mistake twice. I am betting DD2 will be more satisfying at the end game after all of this hubbub about how poorly DD ended.


To be honest, I won't be buying DD2 (if it ever comes out). And I won't let my friends either (they probably wouldn't anyway since they are as frustrated as me). The reasons have been posted a thousand times on the forums and Trendy's indifference about it has turned my love for DD into frustration.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[QUOTE]To be honest, I won't be buying DD2 (if it ever comes out). And I won't let my friends either (they probably wouldn't anyway since they are as frustrated as me). The reasons have been posted a thousand times on the forums and Trendy's indifference about it has turned my love for DD into frustration. [/QUOTE]That's more than a little spiteful. So you think there's no chance in hell a developer could learn from its mistakes in developing one software title on its next one? And you would go so far as to "not let" your friends buy a game from that developer? Can't they make their own decisions?

I wouldn't even say trendy has been "indifferent." If they were, they would not have answered any of those questions on the digest, they would have never interacted with the community at all, and they would have just released a game, popped out a few DLCs, and never take any feed back from the community (they've taken a LOT, more than you likely think). They have also interacted with the community a lot more than most developers, even hosting live streams and inviting regular people to play with them.

As I've mentioned before, I've played a number of games that had tons more bugs left in them than Dungeon Defenders, and I've never held a grudge like that. Bethesda's Elder Scrolls Oblivion has to be one of the buggiest games in existence, but I didn't refuse to buy one of their games on that sole fact. Indeed, Skyrim has proven just as popular and still has gobs of bugs in it too. Trendy has certainly made some mistakes along the way- but they still made a great game, in spite of some of the problems it may have.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I understand what you're saying, but I don't view them as the same situation. Making 100% completion difficult in content because it requires a ton of skill or precision is fine, because then the people that can't do it can't do so because they're simply not putting the required effort into the game. But making it difficult because it relies on additional content that wasn't out at the time is an entirely different situation, people just can't beat it then because they haven't bought additional DLC.

But then this comes right back to the debate of shards survivals being beatable without the EV (and summoner for Sky) which we seem to disagree on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...