We all know RNG is 100% broken, so why not rant about it?

Fixed the quotes up for you dingle :)

I just wanted to express my gratitude to everyone who has added to this thread - a lot of fascinating information and, perhaps most importantly, real numbers.

I'd be amiss not specifically mentioning Dingle - thank you. But to everyone really, good answers first require good questions.

I hope Trendy takes notice and understands that this current loot system is turning off the majority of its fan base and paying customers. This is not an issue of crybabies wanting it easy. There's a huge middle ground between easy and the current mechanics.

I just wanted to express my gratitude to everyone who has added to this thread - a lot of fascinating information and, perhaps most importantly, real numbers. I'd be amiss not specifically mentioning Dingle - thank you. But to everyone really, good answers first require good questions.

I hope Trendy takes notice and understands that this current loot system is turning off the majority of its fan base and paying customers. This is not an issue of crybabies wanting it easy. There's a huge middle ground between easy and the current mechanics.

Very well stated, and very productive thread. Like you said: this isn't people crying to have everything handed to them. It's people showing, through both personal experience and hard numbers, that the loot generation system has not kept up with the more recent changes to the game. Even the coding inserted specifically for Nightmare mode was designed to work with stat thresholds that existed at much lower levels (back when NM was introduced, a completely different world from today.)

There's no reason on earth the calculations couldn't be mildly adjusted to go along with the current game's higher numbers being in play. As you said, there's a huge field of possibility that lies between the two extremes of "good loot being nearly impossible to get" and "good loot being too easy to get." Sensible players don't want either of those extremes; they want a proper balance. The current state of loot generation in the game falls too close to the prior extreme.

I think the best upshot of this kind of exposure to the actual mechanisms rolling up the gear is that people can't just turn around and go 'RNG is RNG'- That presupposes the RNG is well put-together, which is exactly what needs to be called into question.

So to sum it up...

We see so many Ultimate weapons (and some pets) because they are the only thing working 'as expected' - higher missions give you a better chance of high base damage and therefore a progressively better chance of turning Ultimate.

But in the case of armor, the effects of playing high end content are almost nullified by the negative stat check, and therefore instead of progressively more probable, Ultimates just become slightly 'less impossible.'

Am I getting this right?

as far as weapons go, yes, thats pretty much true.

for armor, its not that it is nullified, it is just more of a crap shoot. there are 8 possible stats that can roll above 150, which means there are 8 possible checks that can trigger, all of which will happen at a 50% chance of being multiplied by -0.35. which itself is the entire problem here, because 50% is an EXTREMELY high frequency for something like that to happen (honestly, at that value, it is damn near a 90% chance that it will happen), hence, all the horribad armor that drops.

So to sum it up...

We see so many Ultimate weapons (and some pets) because they are the only thing working 'as expected' - higher missions give you a better chance of high base damage and therefore a progressively better chance of turning Ultimate.

But in the case of armor, the effects of playing high end content are almost nullified by the negative stat check, and therefore instead of progressively more probable, Ultimates just become slightly 'less impossible.'

Am I getting this right?

More or less.

The chances of high stats go up, but at the same time that's also increasing the chances of negatives, and the value of the negatives.

So you get slightly more Ultimate/Supreme armor, in exchange for slightly more unusable armor.

I used to think I just had really bad luck or something when I wasn't getting any really good armor, but now after reading this I know RNG is just stupid. Reading about how the item generation actually works was just flat out depressing. I linked this thread to my good friend that I play DD with, and we both decided that this, honestly, unacceptable and we refuse to play again until RNG is revised/fixed. Sadly, I don't see Trendy actually doing something about the RNG any time soon, or ever for that matter, which is even more depressing. I tell you what though, if they did "fix" RNG, I not only would return to playing and finish the game then afterwards, oh man, I'd start a whole slew of new characters and start from scratch, it'd be a blast, and I wouldn't have to worry about the endless end game grind because it wouldn't be near as bad. Gosh, I can't help but rant on when I say anything about RNG, it just irritates me too much that it's being ignored and nothing is being done about it when there is clearly a problem and people here have plainly laid out the facts of the matter with the numbers and the code knowledge to back it all up.

their are two ways to get a obstinate company to pay attention bad press and loss of revenue
so don't just post/say it here spread the word and boycott their products current and future if your not willing to do this then they already own you and can do what ever how ever they want

What about the real rollover bugs? Weapons have confirmed bugs where the stats CHANGE when you pick them up, going negative and turning half the Huntress weapon drops totally useless, like -120 reload with 100 ups. Squire block does the same thing to give another example. This has been broken a long time and doesn't ever seem to be addressed.

their are two ways to get a obstinate company to pay attention bad press and loss of revenue
so don't just post/say it here spread the word and boycott their products current and future if your not willing to do this then they already own you and can do what ever how ever they want

That's one thing we do have an abundance of ideas and options. :)

their are two ways to get a obstinate company to pay attention bad press and loss of revenue
so don't just post/say it here spread the word and boycott their products current and future if your not willing to do this then they already own you and can do what ever how ever they want

Protip: They already have your money, they really don't care. Even though I like Trendy for doing what they do, at the end of the day that is the pure existence of a company: Make money. Now, I figure that if every person on this forum boycotted Trendy's next game, but the rest of the player base of DD bought it, they would still make an absolute killing. Not much of a point in boycotting, just don't buy anything from Trendy ever again if your so butt-hurt.

Anyway, I would play DD more and actually work on my characters with grinding if the RNG wasn't so screwy. I'm still running myth gear on my DPS barb that I got when NM was first released, simply because nothing else was capable of comparing to it. I've slowly gotten better gear, and for the longest time I always thought that my myth was low-tier, but from what I've seen its high-mid tier now. Its kinda sad really, I mean, you hope on a NMHC map, hoping to find something nice, but all that gets dropped is these polished weapons and all the myth is 1/1 and dropped from chests.

Will the RNG ever be reworked? - SirLatency

Jeremy: No. The RNG has issues, but it's too ingrained into its existing balance-ramp to alter at this point.

Well, awesome. Guess I will go back to farming Trans gear that I can trade for rocks that I can trade for cubes that I can trade for actual decent gear from people who obtained it through I don't want to know what means.

Well, awesome. Guess I will go back to farming Trans gear that I can trade for rocks that I can trade for cubes that I can trade for actual decent gear from people who obtained it through I don't want to know what means.

Yes it is quite disappointing that they can't fix any of the problems.

Yes it is quite disappointing that they can't fix any of the problems.

Won't. The word is "won't", not "can't".

"Jeremy: No. The RNG has issues, but it's too ingrained into its existing balance-ramp to alter at this point."

God forbid the balance-ramp get messed up. It's working so well, it'd be a shame to throw it out of whack.

I think I should have asked "I saw my first Ultimate armor drop last night. My game clock says 768 hours, does that seem about right to you, Trendy?"

Won't. The word is "won't", not "can't".



God forbid the balance-ramp get messed up. It's working so well, it'd be a shame to throw it out of whack.

I think I should have asked "I saw my first Ultimate armor drop last night. My game clock says 768 hours, does that seem about right to you, Trendy?"

I'm at 968 hours with one ultimate armor piece... :-(

EDIT: Thought I was at 971 but it is just 968

I'm at 970+ hours with one ultimate armor piece... :-(

reaching 1100, currently trying to trade my only ultimate armor piece because I know I won't see another one any time soon, if ever at all....

reaching 1100, currently trying to trade my only ultimate armor piece because I know I won't see another one any time soon, if ever at all....

Is it even a great armor piece? Mine is an ultimate 'enchanted' mail stomper with a negative generic resist and 251^s that will not even max the tower attack (207 / 251 with 626 currently, so another 43 upgrades + 40% = approx 60 more points for a total of 686 tower attack - better than a trans piece but well short of the max on an ultimate). Dissappointing actually given how long it took to get it.

Won't. The word is "won't", not "can't"

I totally agree, I thought things were on the mend, but alas, it seem's this game is doomed. Trendy got their money, and now they be done with us. So lads and lasses, it is time to move on with the lessons learned. This game almost made it to my "buy my family so we can play together list". I however am just not that cruel to my family >.> Sorry Trendy, i will not be a future customer, hows that saying go...fool me once..

Well we got our answer. All that's left to do is complain until we are blue in the face, deal with it, or quit. I would gladly come back to the game (probably to an unhealthy degree) if the RNG was tweaked, but now I know there's no point. At least now I won't need to obsessively browse the forums searching for any indication that the RNG will be addressed.

Well we got our answer. All that's left to do is complain until we are blue in the face, deal with it, or quit. I would gladly come back to the game (probably to an unhealthy degree) if the RNG was tweaked, but now I know there's no point. At least now I won't need to obsessively browse the forums searching for any indication that the RNG will be addressed.

If you like the game but just don't like the endgame bugs/rng; you can always go play the mod that CrzyRndm has started.

Is it even a great armor piece? .

Well, if you have a leather set, it's nearly end game gear, unfortunately, none of my toons have a leather set and I definitely am not going to hunt for additional pieces.

If you like the game but just don't like the endgame bugs/rng; you can always go play the mod that CrzyRndm has started.

Not a bad idea. I'll look into it.

If you like the game but just don't like the endgame bugs/rng; you can always go play the mod that CrzyRndm has started.

Problem is you'd have to play on open. Really wouldn't be much of a point to play multiplayer anymore, as every piece of equipment floating around is modded or obtained through some loot map.

If you like the game but just don't like the endgame bugs/rng; you can always go play the mod that CrzyRndm has started.

I've passed CrzyRndm's mod/TC along to the team. I don't know if we could implement it, though.