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Lianad

We all know RNG is 100% broken, so why not rant about it?

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There have been countless posts/threads about this, but I just wanted to post my own to vent my frustration. The RNG is 100% broken, and I seriously hope the programmer who created it has left Trendy.

I've been playing for a long time now, all characters over 2.5k stats, some over 3k stats. The RNG is 100% fundamentally broken. I'm not talking about the *******ized, hilarious "green what is considered upgrade" loot (seriosuly, did a programmer straight from college write that code?), I'm talking about the RNG in general. I could be wrong, but it seems each time they added a new level of loot, the RNG progressively broke even more. It has become especially apparent since Shards 4, or Sky City and the ultimate loot class.

Based on my experience, in over 75+ Aqua NMHC survival runs to wave 30, here are my findings.


  • You have a better chance at good loot at lower levels. I have found the best loot from waves 16-22.
  • The higher waves you go, the more chance at 1/1 loot (over 75% 1/1 loot in NMHCMM later waves)
  • Ultimates/Supremes... If playing with a non summoner character, on a wave 16-30 run, you will average 12+ trans (75/25 weapon/armor), 0 supremes (1 every other run, still = 0 average, 95% of time the one you receive is weapon), and 4 ultimates (weapons only)
  • With Summoner (I duo 2 summoners for only armor).. You average 6-7 trans... 0 supremes, 0 ultimates... Why is it that ultimate weapons drop regularly per run, but armor is non-existant?
  • Of those trans armors... 95% are worse than myths, and some even worse than godlys. Hell, you can't even give them away. In over 30 runs since Sky City, the only ultimate armor I received was from a chest, and it was worse than a myth I was wearing.
  • 75% of all armor drops are 1/1 or < 30 upgrades. I'm sorry. That is a problem. GODLY'S are dropping that have 300+ stats and 200 ups... Yet 75% of the myths are 1/1 or < 20 with mostly negative and a few 100ish stats?
  • Why are supremes non-existent? I have more luck finding a supreme in my tavern shop after a run than during the run.
  • When I was playing with a non-summoner, the ultimate weapons were regular. Yet I still only saw a once in a blue moon supreme. Why is supreme almost non-existatnt, and with summoner and armor only, basically a < 1% chance?
  • I've found better seahorses on insane HC survival than in NMHC survival. Seriously... Of the 4 seahorses used by current characters, all have come from Insane HC survival. Why is it we see searhorses with all negative stats, or with 10 ups etc, on NMHC?
  • I've done Aqua NMHCMM multiple times to 30. Every time I've run it, the loot has been far worse. I would say 70% is 1/1 or < 20 upgrades...



After all this venting, the point is, the rollover loot bug is ridiculous and needs to be fixed. It's not fun to run survival over and over and never even see one upgrade. My stats are not elite. I would consider them mid-range. I think before the addition of Sky City, it was much easier to get sup/trans good loot. Now it seems like a complete waste and impossible if not for a 1 in a million chance with the rollover bug. I know Trendy doesn't care about DD anymore since they are now on to future projects, but some of us love this game and use to find a lot of enjoyment in it. I can only say, FIX THE PROBLEMS. I don't care about new content so much. I just want the documented bugs, and programming issues to be fixed. You can look through the forums and find dozens of threads about broken/unbalanced things. We aren't making it up, it exists.

Anyhow, flame me if you will for being a newb. Tell me you get ultimate armor every day and 5 per run. I will call BS and simply state either you're lying, or this game is so horribly broken that only a few select accounts receive decent loot.

Edit: Just wanted to point out, I have 11 active characters.. 3 have a little over 3k stats in some of the key areas. The rest are in the 2k range varying from low 2k to high 2k... It is extremely sad to complete dozens, and dozens of runs on the previous (pre-shard 4) hardest map in the game on NMHC to wave 30, and not find ONE upgrade for any of your 11 chars.

When I see people with over 3k stats on multiple chars, I always ask "how"... They always respond, I got all my gear months ago. I highly doubt anyone but a very select few will ever get multiple chars over 4k let alone 3k since they broke everythinh.

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Fun fact: Clearing City in the Cliffs on Hard gives you four mythical items while clearing it on Insane gives you Godly.

So yeah, it's BS. I stopped FINDING armor once I graduated from Godly. What I find is terrible. Really, truly terrible. It's basically impossible to find armor that gives you 2k stats. If you didn't get it before the RNG broke, you don't get it at all.

It blew my mind when I saw veteran players with defensive stats on all their armor pieces at 23%. I thought "that's like 45 upgrades per defensive stat per armor!" Then I realized Blessed and Lucky armor isn't supposed to have -15 in all the damage stats.

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Yeah, I know the feeling, I have started collecting that amazing godly armor to see if I can put together a set on par with mythical stuff I find. It gives me something to do to keep from losing my mind. I've found I think 3 pieces of supreme armor, one of which was usable, and even in the high 2k, low 3k stat range my characters are still wearing the majority mythical items, which I dont see changing any time soon.

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[QUOTE]It blew my mind when I saw veteran players with defensive stats on all their armor pieces at 23%. I thought "that's like 45 upgrades per defensive stat per armor!" Then I realized Blessed and Lucky armor isn't supposed to have -15 in all the damage stats.[/QUOTE]

This... I didn't know things were even suppose to be that way until reading the forums. I think in all of my runs, I've found maybe only a dozen or so myth/trans that have all positive resists. On the large majority of armor (for my dps chars), I end up spending most, if not all of my upgrades on the resists. Again, I don't believe things use to be this way. I think something fundamental broke with one of the patches and the new loot levels and no one bother to give a crap, or fix the problem. They'd rather just move on to new projects and write off existing players who use to love this game.

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[QUOTE]Yeah, I know the feeling, I have started collecting that amazing godly armor to see if I can put together a set on par with mythical stuff I find.[/QUOTE]

If this was facebook and I could like that I would. I've thought the same thing.

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I concur! Fix the loot! A game where 90% of the game is loot for you to be able to play isn't a good thing when it doesn't give anything.

This.

Atleast add some code to stop loot constantly ending up at 1/1.

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Anyhow, flame me if you will for being a newb. Tell me you get ultimate armor every day and 5 per run. I will call BS and simply state either you're lying, or this game is so horribly broken that only a few select accounts receive decent loot.


No, actually you have quite a few points there:

*It's actually easier to find a ultimate weapon than a supreme one
*Almost feels like the game is based on denying you quality armor
*When you happen to find a sup or an ult, you realize it's worse than a good mythical, what's up with that logic?

As I've said in other threads, I don't have a problem with having sups and ults being nearly impossible to find, yes, including weapons, but for ****s sake when they drop make them end game already, the prospect of spending hundreds of hours farming for an end game ultimate set is bad enough already for most, but spending hundreds upon hundreds of hours to find...that the *only* option is to trade?? An option increasingly become out of reach for most??

After all this time I still shake my head at trying to understand what is the logic of making things this way.

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A system taken beyond it's original design parameters demonstrates odd behaviour shocker.

Someone contact Fox News.

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A system taken beyond it's original design parameters demonstrates odd behaviour shocker.

Someone contact Fox News.

Doesn't mean it shouldn't be fixed.

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Agree... I was so excited a few min ago when i got my first supreme armor from a chest nmhc aqua, to bad its not as good as the myth im wearing >.

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Yeah... agreed.

I get that the the "random" in "RNG" means business... but I still think a lower limit needs to be put in place.

When we're in wave 25-30 of Nightmare Survival... can we stop getting godly armor?

Can the "reward" pets actually be good? I'm sick of getting "rewards" that are absolute trash. Like a Seahorse worth 53 mana. Or how about ALL the rewards? Can there be a way to ensure that the "reward" items actually REWARD people for what they've done instead of just spawning a dropped item straight to your item box? Or that at the very least they only suck just a little?

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All legitimate complaints. They have truly forsaken us and don't ever seem to address this issue. If they do I believe the logic is that 'it's not broken', but I can't confirm that as I am newish to the forums. I've said before if they fix this system this will be a classic game that people will play for years to come as well as get people excited about DD2.

I guess while the system is broken you just gotta decide whether the dirge is worth it.

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You could have got your point across without insulting the programmers. I'd like to see you do a better job.
Also, it's not "100%" broken. If that were the case it would not spawn armour at all. It's just random chance. Sure, it needs to be fixed a little to make certain qualities a little less rare, but they are meant to be rare so obviously it's going to be hard to get them.

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I'd first like to say it's not our responsibility to 'do a better job'. It is our right/obligation as paying consumers to voice our concerns. Everybody knows there are major flaws with the system and there have been for awhile. If a moderator came on and offered an insightful explanation as to why the system is not broken I think although people would have problems with it, this topic might get put to sleep. Or at least new posts would be referred to an official sticky.

People are getting a little restless hence the 'insults' which I wouldn't even classify as such; harsh criticisms, perhaps. This RNG has people simply not finding the grind worth their time, and I don't blame them. I much prefer the forums to the actual game at this point.

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If it only were godly that annoyed me on W20-W30. I am regularly finding epic / amazing, dropped from ogres / chests...
Once I saw a frost blade drop right at the beginning of a wave. Checked it, Epic, well ****. Funny thing: at the end of the wave, it was still there, which means that most of the dropped loot during the rest of the wave must have been even worse.
I get that it is supposed to be random but I think it really needs boundaries below which a specific kind / type of armor CANNOT drop. I think you should be guaranteed a certain quality when you find a transcendent piece of armor, even more so for supreme and ultimate. It's just a shame that after over 600 hrs of DD not one of my builders is wearing a full transcendent set just because certain mythical pieces are better than the transcendent items / supreme items I find. I have found about 10 supreme armor pieces, and only 2 of those actually made it into a set of mine. The others were mostly superceeded by my myths.

I would really like trendy officially commenting on this subject. It's come up again and again. They don't have to "fix" it if they don't want to, but an official statement would be in place.

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If you play DD On console, you will find that it is nearly impossible to get good loot on insane on any maps. I mostly rely on maps that reward you with weapons and armors when you defeat the boss. You'll have a better chance of getting good armors that way on console but the loot that the mobs drop are the worst loots you could imagine.

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there is nothink wrong with the loot,why do you think because you an do a surv that you should get the best loot every time?

all you guys want is the rare loot to be so easy so every one can have it, then what? there nothing to do once you get it, all this will just put every one on the same level, it will be over farmed, and worthless.

.its rare,
.its more rewarding when you find a good one
.they have said its not broke 100 times so stop saying it is.

start working for you loot instead of expecting to get all your characters decked out in 5 min jeez... it takes time getting ult armor is not a 5 min job

end of.

you want to hit 3k easy?

do kings game nmhcmm with summoner. easy you WILL get lots of trans armors and you WILL get a few sup and ults hear and there stop saying good armor is hard to find when its not.

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.... it takes time getting ult armor is not a 5 min job



Sorry to bring you the news but, it's not a job, it's a game.

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i am just going to pretend you did not just say that...


Yeah, the problem is, it's the truth, even if you don't like it, it's not a job, it's a game, not a chore, not a job, and I don't want to feel like if I'm earning at a game, even if you could earn something in DD, which is the problem, the amount of grind is insane for the quality of the rewards. I can fully understand Trendy to be wanting for their game to last long enough, the game itself is awesome to the point of having content worth of at least a good 500 hours, which is way more than 90% of the games out there, but forcing people to play for another 500 for a nil chance of reaching the so called end game is just illogical.

And stop saying there is nothing wrong with the game, you sig says it all :

Thing i do most in dd is trade, its the fastest farm of any item

Fact is, even trading's become nuisance, you yourself have expressed it in the trading forums, no idea why now you are intent in denying the problems in the game, farming is farming and trading is a whole different thing.
So don't think you are helping Trendy by denying the truth, the game has serious issues in the loot system, and the only down to earth way to help Trendy is to be frontal about it.

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The problem with trading is that the hackers know how to change the values to the items so you don't even know if they changed them or not. THe only time you do is when it is obvious, like maxed out hero stats and tower stats over 3000 with full resistances and all ultimates too. So trading can be risky too.

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I have to agree with the original poster. Something does not seem right with the loot system in this game.

Countless times, I have seen items labeled as upgrades turn out to be worse than the equipment that I am currently wearing. I have had godly gear with negative stats show as upgrades over my all-positive stat mythical gear, which does not make sense.

I am not entirely familiar with the rollover bug, but I would bet that it has something to do with this. I get far worse giraffes on NMHC than I do on insane. In fact, every giraffe I get on insane survival has decent positive stats, while giraffes from NMHC are negatives across the board, and pretty bad negatives too.

I know luck plays a major role in the quality of the loot that drops, and I understand that. Not every survival run is going to produce perfect gear that allows everyone to have god-like hero or tower statistics. At the same time, it feels like a major waste of time to get a trashy supreme item near the end of an Aquanos survival run.

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I don't recall anyone ever saying they wanted 2k, 3k, or even 4k stats quickly.

But I can completely understand the frustration if someone farms for gear for 30, or 50, or 100 hours game time and does not find one single piece to replace what they already have. While random is random... weightings in random number generation and roll-over issues can easily skew rarity to be unreachable for all practical purposes.

Unfortunately frustration can easily lead to bitterness. And those kind of feelings easily lead to bad word of mouth about Trendy and their products. Which in turn could hurt their revenue and longevity as a company.

For me it is a catch-22. I have several toons in 3k+ gear (yes 99% of it is not recent and I still have upgrades to make). So I do like how Trendy has catered to the higher stat players. I really do love the game and gameplay, but for Trendy to continue successfully in this business they also have to take care to not alienate the masses. Especially when the majority of those players are newer and probably have friends who are still potential new customers. But bad input from their friends can easily prevent that revenue income. Now you can't please everyone, but to me it makes more sense if everyone could easily see how you get from 0 to 4k. Because if the perception is there that either the RNG is broken or that there is a wall to prevent progession - then that is the reality to most people. And that reality will mean more to potential customers whose friends tell them so, than what is known as true by end game players they don't even know. Especially when a good percent of new players don't even visit the forums.

At some point (i.e. all 90 level toons with 4k+ stats and all achievements) there is nothing left to grind for. You can continue to play but you will not getting an upgrade or even need mana at that point. So what is a fair amount time to get there? 500, or 750, or 1000? Everyone will have a different answer to that question. But for the people that want to get there it shouldn't be so improbable that only luck with RNG or luck with certain patch windows make it possible.

I don't think Trendy has done a bad job or is to blame for anything. I do think though that the game could be improved though. And that improvement would take this really good game to a really great that would continue to draw in new customers down the line (even without steam specials to boost sales volume).

tl;dr: meh DD is good game but still room for improvement. RNG is random. Broken is broken. I saved 15% on my car insuran... (what the...) lol

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I find it weird that so often in this forum people talk of "end of the game" as having every achievement or the best possible loot is that really what keeps you playing a game ? Happily ?
I find that I play games that are fun long or short over and over again I may leave them for awhile but I always return to try something new ,beat a personal goal, or just screw around with but one thing I never do is replay a game with a bad ending or that left me feeling it was just a grind at the end
so for me at least a grind shortens a games life as once I put it down ill never play it again

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