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Suggestion: Turn these loopholes into features


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For the purposes of transparency and equal opportunities, I suggest adding the following two options to the Mission Setup screen:

1. Monster Count & Boss HP Slider

Many players are aware that Dungeon Defenders has an option of splitscreen multiplayer mode using the keyboard and one or more XBox controllers. While it was intended to allow two or more players to play on the same computer using a shared account (and many players use it as such), it is no secret that the mode is commonly used by advanced players to speed up mana and item farming - joining with one or more additional heroes to draw in extra mana and map victory rewards.

As such, players who do not possess an XBox controller and lack the technical knowledge to simulate one using the keyboard or a generic controller - two factors that have nothing to do with their gaming skills or the core concepts of DD - are put at a disadvantage. At the same time, it is impossible for a computer program to know if a connected controller is held by a living person or used merely for farming. For that reason alone, eliminating the loophole is out of question.

As a solution to this troubling and unfair situation, I suggest adding a slider to the Mission Setup screen. It should allow the selection of a value ranging from 1 (default) to the maximum number of heroes allowed for the map. If at any time the number of heroes present is smaller than the selected number, the wave monster count, mana yield, and the health of the boss (if one is present) should still scale as if the number of heroes present was equal to the selected number.

If a map or mode offers victory rewards, those should scale up with the slider as well. For the sake of fair play, if the rewards cannot be divided equally between the heroes actually present, the rewards should be rounded down. (For example, if the slider is set to 4 but 3 heroes are present, each should receive one reward; however, if only 2 heroes are present, each should receive a double reward.)

2. Disable Weapon Drops Checkbox

As the Summoner class does not have any weapon type associated with it, if only Summoners are present on the map during a combat phase, no weapons will drop during that combat phase. However, if even one non-Summoner hero is present, they will cause their own weapon types to drop and the weapon:armor drop ratio will revert to normal (that is, strongly in favor of weapons).

As many advanced players value armor drops much higher than weapon drops, they choose to have only Summoners out in combat if possible. This allows them to farm armor at a much faster rate than players who are not able or willing to have only Summoners out in combat, putting the latter group at a severe disadvantage.

This issue could be solved by adding a simple checkbox to the Mission Setup screen. The checkbox would allow the host to completely disable weapon drops from monsters in the map, regardless of the hero classes present.

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I seriously agree with that.


4-player splitscreen is very hardcore for a CPU and I had some serious lags, you know, those who make you miss all your hawk stances ...
but nevermind, I still agree :p

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i agree also. The only catch is that it still won't allow those without technical knowledge/xbox controllers to level multiple characters at one time.

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Like the Pokefarm. You register your character for the map, but don't have splitscreen. Enemies are as 4 players are ingame. You will get the tower boost and everything. When the chars have a pet that could be able to help your build. You should have a special event to place them all over the map. Repair pets can get nearby mana. Somehow it seems a bit like Trendy lost interest on DD.

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i agree also. The only catch is that it still won't allow those without technical knowledge/xbox controllers to level multiple characters at one time.


That's what he was getting at.

You only have 1 player on the screen (your chosen character) but a "slider", in this case, is what determines how much mana/loot is dropped during the round It also affects the Bosses/Enemies health and amount of them total for the level.

My only concern (or question for this) would be the first suggestion. Would this mean that if a person was playing Alchemical Laboratory, would said person get 4 rewards for the character he was using? This could be a problem with the balance of the game.

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My only concern (or question for this) would be the first suggestion. Would this mean that if a person was playing Alchemical Laboratory, would said person get 4 rewards for the character he was using? This could be a problem with the balance of the game.


This is exactly what already happens now when someone connects 3 controllers. A friend of mine farms Steam Saws with 2 AFK controller chars. I can imagine someone with a highest end PC setting up a 4 monitor setup so they don't even suffer from the reduced FoV of splitscreen mode.

My suggestion is that everyone should be allowed to do the same without the hassle or the technical barriers.

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I can imagine someone with a highest end PC setting up a 4 monitor setup so they don't even suffer from the reduced FoV of splitscreen mode.


A little off topic here, but if there is multi-monitor support in this game, I would dearly love to find out about it. Split-screen is so 1990's.

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A little off topic here, but if there is multi-monitor support in this game, I would dearly love to find out about it. Split-screen is so 1990's.
I think the built in support is limited to the custom resolution option in the config menu. For example, using 2 1080p monitors, setting custom resolution to 3840 x 1080 and using vertical split screen will give you two characters each with a full 1920 x1080 view.

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I think option 1 should scale more than just select 1 to 4 players for a map.

The amount of enemies was reduced for people who have less time to play, which is a great idea. But for those of us who want to spend more time without restarting, or increasing the challenge. We should have an option to increase the enemies above where they are now, so we can increase our challenge.

Maybe call the mode: Extended Play, with option to increase 2x, 3x, 4x and even 5x the amount of current enemies per wave.

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I think option 1 should scale more than just select 1 to 4 players for a map.

The amount of enemies was reduced for people who have less time to play, which is a great idea. But for those of us who want to spend more time without restarting, or increasing the challenge. We should have an option to increase the enemies above where they are now, so we can increase our challenge.

Maybe call the mode: Extended Play, with option to increase 2x, 3x, 4x and even 5x the amount of current enemies per wave.


Or you could set how much HP/Damage they have/do. This would not affect rewards for stronger enemies, but you would forfeit your reward with weaker enemies.

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I would really like some kind of an official comment on the issues I presented and what will be done to address them, especially the second one.

Considering that with the latest DLCs and their reward weapons the value of most core weapon drops has dropped more or less to zero (thanks, Trendy), the Summoner simply has way too much of an advantage over other classes.

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I would really like some kind of an official comment on the issues I presented and what will be done to address them, especially the second one.


[quote]the Summoner simply has way too much of an advantage over other classes.[/QUOTE]

It's been brought up before. I made a suggestion to change the drop ratio of weapons:armor back in January (http://forums.trendyent.com/showthread.php?39636-A-different-drop-suggestion). I'm sure I wasn't the first. At this point, I've come to the conclusion that Trendy either doesn't see a problem or thinks the solution is having to buy a DLC in order to get armor drops. Either way, I don't see it changing, unfortunately.

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  • 3 weeks later...
The ratio of weapons:armor will not be tweaked.


What about the Summoner's ability to cause the spawning of only armor drops?

If the weapon:armor drop ratio for the remaining 11 classes is working as intended, then doesn't it mean the lack of weapon drops for Summoner is game-breaking?

Will it be tweaked, or will a similar option be given to other classes as well?

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It's not in a sense game breaking mainly because most players don't use the drops of weapons or armor on the ground anyway. It just gives you a bit better chance to get some better armor at the expense of greatly increased difficulty to the players. When you play with pure summoners you have to rely on your defenses as while two pets is nice, it isn't like a player with a weapon. A monk with hero boost can make a wave extremely easy vs a summoner with pets. It wouldn't make sense to reward that kind of play as no one would ever play with weapon drops once they got a decent weapon. Also most awesome weapon drops come from challenge maps rewards where the armor is usually terrible. This would mean any campaign map/survival run players would always have armor drops only selected. You kind of need to choose, do you want a better chance at armor in exchange for increased difficulty or play it safe and less of a chance for good armor drop?

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It's not in a sense game breaking mainly because most players don't use the drops of weapons or armor on the ground anyway.


Excuse me? Where do 'most players' get their armor from then? Selling their cubes? And even if they did that, where did that armor come from in the first place?

Why would you run Survival if not for the drops? For the worthless mana?

It just gives you a bit better chance to get some better armor at the expense of greatly increased difficulty to the players. When you play with pure summoners you have to rely on your defenses as while two pets is nice, it isn't like a player with a weapon. A monk with hero boost can make a wave extremely easy vs a summoner with pets. It wouldn't make sense to reward that kind of play as no one would ever play with weapon drops once they got a decent weapon. Also most awesome weapon drops come from challenge maps rewards where the armor is usually terrible. This would mean any campaign map/survival run players would always have armor drops only selected. You kind of need to choose, do you want a better chance at armor in exchange for increased difficulty or play it safe and less of a chance for good armor drop?


Thank you for pointing out that Survival weapon drops are worthless to an advanced player 90% of the time, and that some classes are considerably more potent than others; it is very telling that you chose to bring up the example of Monk and not, say, Huntress or Apprentice. Those are other two problems that could use some attention.

As it stands, beyond a certain stat threshold and with a good enough build, it is always 'safe' to go for the better chance of armor, and like you have admitted yourself, it is foolish to give up on that opportunity. At that point it is disputable whether staying on Summoner or any other class makes any sort of a difference in regards to difficulty as all you need to do is repair from time to time, and in fact the Summoner is better at that than most other classes.

So the players who already have good tower stats, the ones who need the increased armor drops THE LEAST, always have 'armor drops only selected' so that they can sell the excess armor to the less advanced players and make even more profit.

But since you have gone out of your way to defend the current state of the matters, please explain to me, if one player completes a Survival run as a Summoner, and another completes the same run, with the exact same difficulty settings, as any other one of the 12 classes, why should the first player be rewarded more?

Shouldn't it be every player's freedom to choose what class they want to play, and to be rewarded fairly regardless of their choice?

And how does it make sense that it is more profitable to complete an easier map with Summoner than a harder map with another class?

And where is the 'action' part in playing only as Summoner? Last time I checked, Dungeon Defenders deemed itself a Tower Defense Action RPG. Weren't Goblin Copters introduced exactly to give DPS players more work? Then what's the point in penalizing players for doing exactly that, and rewarding players for doing the exact opposite?

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Winterbraid've got a good point here, but mana is not completely worthless in Survival.

But I totally agree with this.

And where is the 'action' part in playing only as Summoner? Last time I checked, Dungeon Defenders deemed itself a Tower Defense Action RPG. Weren't Goblin Copters introduced exactly to give DPS players more work? Then what's the point in penalizing players for doing exactly that, and rewarding players for doing the exact opposite?


Flash-healing doesn't count as action, does it?

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