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The Barbarian Vs The Monk - Dps


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I don't blame you at all for your posts, In fact I feel they do contribute to the thread nicely.

But this wasn't something that I put up for other people to read and take advice from. It was out of personal interest.
*in anti drug commercial voice* So kids, don't use a barb thinking he is magically better than a monk.


Wait this part confused me. If someone at 1000 stats came up to you and asked which dps character they should us to be most effective in any situation. Which would you say?

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^ Now that's going to have very opinionated answers. I would actually answer Jester wielding bow + sword to function as both decent DPS + block bosses + move towers when sharken'd + repair all towers + buff allies. I'm not trying to convince anyone with this answer either, but just my opinion.

EDIT: Probably off-topic, so we move on. :)

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Wait this part confused me. If someone at 1000 stats came up to you and asked which dps character they should us to be most effective in any situation. Which would you say?


I would tell them whichever they liked the play-style more on?
This thread was for my satisfaction, I prefer to use a character on tougher missions who has been proven more effective in one way or another.
Whether I like that class or not.

I mean if this was the kind of game where you could pick and choose who the best class was for a situation just because you liked them you wouldn't need 3 different builders for one mission to succeed.

So sure some people may choose a monk solely because of the play-style, but from my experiences the barb does more dps and has more survivability not only in normal gameplay but in certain situations I put myself in to test aspects of each character in separate ways.

I'm not biased in any way, due to the fact that I've been playing a monk much longer than a barb (almost since day one on my first account) and didn't even start to play a barb after I was well into my second.
So I enjoy the monk thoroughly infact the ensnare aura is my favorite tower in the entire game.

But my findings show the barb to be a better pure dps.

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^ Now that's going to have very opinionated answers. I would actually answer Jester wielding bow + sword to function as both decent DPS + block bosses + move towers when sharken'd + buff allies. I'm not trying to convince anyone with this answer either, but just my opinion.

EDIT: Probably off-topic, so we move on. :)


I can't sign off on Jester as first dps character. Unless you have a really good pawn shooter and a cat, in which case that is pretty sweet. But for a good first dps I love the monk and how his boost can help hide weaknesses. And I love using jester to move towers closer then you can normally build. IDK if it's a bug or what, but you can really stack towers close to each other with her. But I only use her during build phase to tune up my build.

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Seahorse, end of discussion.
The only thing left to discuss is what is the best DPS pet a monk can use.

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http://i.imgur.com/i3lG5.jpg
^ That is my dps on an nm dummy.
So were in a whole different ball park when were talking a highly geared barb compared to a 3100 barb.
The seahorse doesn't even come close.


It seems to take ~3 seconds from stopping attacking and using hawk stance before being able to attack again, so this screenshot shows a DPS over that time of around 9m, right? The 18.6m is not really a meaningful number.

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You speak of wow , in wow there is no pure dps char , they all bring beneficts to the raid , either by buffs or debuffs.


Bwahah xD... Bwhaahahahahahah!!!! A rogue can buff? No no sir a rogue cannot buff in anyway.
What a rogue can do that involves team work is damage mitigation such as moves like sap, which isn't considered a buff.
Guess what? A barbarian has a move like sap, it's his shock stance.
Except he doesn't need to be stealthed to do it.

It seems to take ~3 seconds from stopping attacking and using hawk stance before being able to attack again, so this screenshot shows a DPS over that time of around 9m, right? The 18.6m is not really a meaningful number.


I'm sorry have you used a barbarian? If you attack and then use hawk
A. It takes about 1-2 seconds tops.
B. With the kind of dps a good barb has nothing is standing in his way after hawk, so the recovery time doesn't even factor in.

So basically your prolonging your movement to another group of spawns for one teeny animation to finish.
Which guess what? Means yes, yes that number does mean something.

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Tricks of the trade is a rogue "buff", also quite a few talents add damage not only to yourself but to other players. WoW hasn't had "pure" dps since BC. Everyone brings some sort of buff/debuff synergy to the table.

For a realistic comparison, maybe try your same gear on your monk with a good seahorse, using boost vs barb with prop cat? If the stand alone thing is still important to you. Also today I saw a barb do a Hawk strike of two hits of 380m in the tavern, it showed 486m dps, but he was getting a prop cat + 1600 hero boost.

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At 1. Eternian Greatswords anybody?

At 2 and 3. So what your telling me is that something is considered a better dps because of it's support?
I'm sorry but I was really into wow for years and we didn't recruit a dps for any reasons of the sort.

Dps is dps, it has to do with damage mitigation and a few other off roles. And as for survivability? Dps barb, siphon stance, and a genie.
Nothing can survive longer than that.


PRIOR to hero boost. monk does SIMILAR damage as barb. Add in hero boost and you get 2-3x SUSTAINED ranged damage. Safer, Stronger, Stronger?

That's NOT including the extra tower damage from tower boost.

Like you said, dps is dps right?

And you mention WoW, I find it funny you can't see the benefit of aoe 2-3x dmg boost + healing for both towers and heroes.

I end gamed raided through BC and I can say, we in fact DID recruit because of support (More chain heals, namely) we made it to KJ PRE the huge nerfbat, can't recall patch number i want to say 3.0?
Not many can say the same

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Every single person comes in here claiming, "Oh the monk does just as much as the barbarian" yet I see absolutely no one with pictures? It's just a random claim based on you playing on and probably not testing it at all.
Which is why you continue to suggest I test it even though I HAVE.

And haws, you are correct I've forgotten about ONE single "buff" added to the rogue since world of warcraft was released.
Excuse me for quitting after two 85's on cataclysm and not giving a **** about the game anymore since it's gone to all hell and become something a little kid can handle.

I'm sorry Gungniir but if your trying to throw out your wow experiences as some kind of intimidation factor it isn't working.

I ran Eye of C pre nerf with my guild back in the day with the bugs and did fairly well compared to most other guilds, and conquered him shortly after he was fixed.
Not many can say they even had hope of beating him pre nerf.
Hell not many even know about the eye of C and his pre nerf condition.

Nonetheless I'm also comparing this using the supreme legendary monk skin when it comes to the static dps.
And the barbarian is still coming out on top.

And every person also keeps mentioning the monks hero boosts? Yet no one seems to ever remember turtle stance and siphon stance.
What in the hell does tower damage have to do with your dps? You completely just unvalidated every half decent point you made by even mentioning that.

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If you're only concerned with a big number on the dummies, then sure, you can probably do it better with a barbarian because of the burst damage with a timed hawk before just before the DPS calculation.

Doesn't imply the value is practical for play.

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*Puts barb dps set, eternian spear, and 20k damage seahorse with 289 ups.. Does 45m dps on a dummy* :'(
*Puts barb dps set, eternian spear, and propeller kitty.. Does 81m dps on a dummy* (both with boost aura on)

Wow? I'm taking pet advice from people who obviously don't even know the class they are trying to sell me. *Gasp*
If I ran with a trans seahorse on I'd be doing just as much as a barb when using my hero boost..
If I run it with a prop cat? I get slighly more dummy dps than my barb but that isn't factoring in hawk stance I can use every 1 second.

All the while this is using the super legendary skin which is giving me around a 20% damage boost and a 50% or so hp boost.
So I wouldn't even waste my time comparing it to the monk without said skin.

Oh and what is this? Even with the 50% hp boost and my dps armor on my monk still has 1k hp less than my barb with nothing besides his swords?
Talk about that good ol' survivable monk ;)!

Sorry but unless any of you can show me some pictures of an actually well geared monk against a well geared barb actually doing better consistent dps I'm going to stick with what I've actually TESTED.

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*Puts barb dps set, eternian spear, and 20k damage seahorse with 289 ups.. Does 45m dps on a dummy* :'(
*Puts barb dps set, eternian spear, and propeller kitty.. Does 81m dps on a dummy* (both with boost aura on)

Wow? I'm taking pet advice from people who obviously don't even know the class they are trying to sell me. *Gasp*
If I ran with a trans seahorse on I'd be doing just as much as a barb when using my hero boost..
If I run it with a prop cat? I get slighly more dummy dps than my barb but that isn't factoring in hawk stance I can use every 1 second.

All the while this is using the super legendary skin which is giving me around a 20% damage boost and a 50% or so hp boost.
So I wouldn't even waste my time comparing it to the monk without said skin.

Oh and what is this? Even with the 50% hp boost and my dps armor on my monk still has 1k hp less than my barb with nothing besides his swords?
Talk about that good ol' survivable monk ;)!

Sorry but unless any of you can show me some pictures of an actually well geared monk against a well geared barb actually doing better consistent dps I'm going to stick with what I've actually TESTED.


Now divide the barbs DPS by 6, multiply the Monks seahorse dmg by 1.4. Factor in the cool-down period of hawk stance, and the monk out dps's almost every time. And to all the previous comments stating that after a hwk stance nothing is left standing, try that against 60mil hp ogres, which to 1 shot means u need a 360mil dmg, hwk stance in tavern without monk boost, which i call bull****.

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I think the comparison was monk + seahorse + boost > monk + boost + prop cat in nightmare games, where the character damage is seriously hindered. Maybe see how much the seahorse does in tavern without then with boost, to get your increase % and then let your seahorse hit the deeper well dummy, and add in the hero boost to that dps. For what its worth I actually have no clue which is actually higher, I am only certain that a barb getting monk boost + prop cat is.. untouchable damage. I saw a guy break 500m dps in the tavern earlier, his hawk hit for over 400m each hit.

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Now divide the barbs DPS by 6, multiply the Monks seahorse dmg by 1.4. Factor in the cool-down period of hawk stance, and the monk out dps's almost every time. And to all the previous comments stating that after a hwk stance nothing is left standing, try that against 60mil hp ogres, which to 1 shot means u need a 360mil dmg, hwk stance in tavern without monk boost, which i call bull****.


You also forgot to divide the monks dps dude, not to mention the ONE SECOND cool down on hawk stance while it's mapped to an extra key on my mouse? Yeah so far and few between dude.

Let me ask everyone this, what level are your barbs? And what gear do you have on your barbs?
If it's not 90 & Supreme or up your wasting my time even giving an opinion on end game dps.

Your basing it off of "I saw this guy do this and this in a tavern once" isn't cutting it.

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I'm amazed that the squire is not included in this discussion. Squires these days are pretty beastly, same goes for a properly geared EV. Monks are the safe play, but the introduction of the steam saw has significantly boosted the abilities of the squire and the barbarian in a very meaningful way. People are also seemingly sleeping on the powers of a properly geared EV. Monks do not get the extra stat points the extra offhand wpn provides.

The usefulness of the DPS also depends on the stage being played. For a stage like King's a Barb with a cat is probably the better play while a stage like Sky City the Monk excels. Just some information from my testing. Feel free to agree or disagree.

Protip: You guys need to start checking values on the dummies in deeper well. Too much obsession about current dummy damage in tavern. Those values are pretty irrelevant since Nightmare is the norm these days.
I think the comparison was monk + seahorse + boost > monk + boost + prop cat in nightmare games, where the character damage is seriously hindered. Maybe see how much the seahorse does in tavern without then with boost, to get your increase % and then let your seahorse hit the deeper well dummy, and add in the hero boost to that dps. For what its worth I actually have no clue which is actually higher, I am only certain that a barb getting monk boost + prop cat is.. untouchable damage. I saw a guy break 500m dps in the tavern earlier, his hawk hit for over 400m each hit.

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I'm amazed that the squire is not included in this discussion. Squires these days are pretty beastly, same goes for a properly geared EV. Monks are the safe play, but the introduction of the steam saw has significantly boosted the abilities of the squire and the barbarian in a very meaningful way. People are also seemingly sleeping on the powers of a properly geared EV. Monks do not get the extra stat points the extra offhand wpn provides.

The usefulness of the DPS also depends on the stage being played. For a stage like King's a Barb with a cat is probably the better play while a stage like Sky City the Monk excels. Just some information from my testing. Feel free to agree or disagree.

Protip: You guys need to start checking values on the dummies in deeper well. Too much obsession about current dummy damage in tavern. Those values are pretty irrelevant since Nightmare is the norm these days.


The dummy is relevant, it's a simple division to know what your going to be hitting on nightmare.
And I posted a picture of me hitting on nightmare with hawkstance, which I don't think everyone here seems to understand you can use that once per second.
Which definitely allows the barb to outclass the monk.

I will give the only solid point anyone made to them and that is that you can't do ranged damage on a barb.
Unless of course you have eternian greatswords. But they don't hit for all that much ranged tbh.

So to end the damn debate I will give the monk better ranged dps.
If that will keep the obvious fanboys happy.

But there is no way IN HELL the monk is passing the barb up for melee dps.
I'm done here no one is giving any actual reasoning behind their claims, just using speculation.

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