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Huntress DPS Theorycrafting and Guide -- need community help as well!


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So i tried to use excel to calculate what I'll be getting for grading a weapon and it just doesn't seem to wanna add up.

So i have a have a weapon that had 43 base damage at lvl 1. At lvl 10 it came out to be 145, but excel is showing me 143 with what i assumed was being rounded down. So i changed to to have everything rounded normally but i get 150 instead. Returning it to rounding down, i decide to change the lvl base damage from 43 to 44 and i end up getting 147.

For now i will continue to round down for now since its better to hit higher then calculated, but it would be nice to always be on spot.

Can anyone help?


I wrote a .Net app to do the same. Level 10 is 9 upgrades right? When I run those number, rounding to the nearest integer, I get 150. Lemme change it to always round dowm....brb...

Edit: Rounding down, I get 143 as well. Who knows what they are doing?

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I wrote a .Net app to do the same. Level 10 is 9 upgrades right? When I run those number, rounding to the nearest integer, I get 150. Lemma change it to always round dowm....brb...


It seems like the game rounds the number shown to the player, but keeps the decimals for further calculations. It's likely, as the in game result in this case lies between the rounded down version and the rounded up one.

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It seems like the game rounds the number shown to the player, but keeps the decimals for further calculations. It's likely, as the in game result in this case lies between the rounded down version and the rounded up one.


Yup, which I said. (like 7 posts back)

Edit: it's likely that the situations above are starting with an even base damage number, when it is conceivable that even the initial base damage has a decimal that you can't see, to further complicate your assumptions on what it will eventually upgrade to. My advice is to simply add 15% or +80, whichever is lower, and to not be angry when you're off by a couple points due to the unpredictable initial decimal or the rounding.

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any idea what the formula is for projectile speed upgrades?

currently farming for a dancing cavalier and debating what good minimum base stats would be.

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any idea what the formula is for projectile speed upgrades?

currently farming for a dancing cavalier and debating what good minimum base stats would be.


Not 100% sure, but I think it just adds +250 speed per upgrade level? I've only ever seemed to upgrade it from 500ish to 750ish to 1000ish, but it's quite possible at lower starting values you don't get +250 yet.

The stats you're looking for on a decent Dancing Cavalier are approx 120+ base damage, 3+ attack speed, reasonable clip size and reload bonus (imo if it doesn't have a reload bonus it's a junker), 500+ projectile speed, and as many upgrade levels as possible, 24+. Expect to spend ~4 levels not on base damage.

To do the super cheesy Assault Insane strat you need approx 1000 projectile speed, or 750 if you can do a sick bouncing shot from the front of the third crystal like I can. (to my knowledge I invented that shot)

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It seems like the game rounds the number shown to the player, but keeps the decimals for further calculations. It's likely, as the in game result in this case lies between the rounded down version and the rounded up one.


I tried that as well, keeping the entire thing floating point until it had 9 upgrades then rounding the final result. This comes out at 151, so it isn't that either.

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i've noticed varying increases on proj speed depending on the base type of weapon. I figured it may have been similar to other formulas with a (base+% if < x) approach.

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(Does projectile speed increase the total range of any weapon type excluding grenade launcher?)


It does, at least on the negative side. Easy way to confirm is just find a weapon with a very negative weapon speed (-500 or more) and fire it, the projectiles will only make it a few yards in front of you before they expire. Not sure if this holds true for positive values, but I would imagine so.

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Just noticed you have suggested the Bone Bow has max 6 SpS. Mine has 7. I am on XBox however, could be different I guess.
It is 7, the op is wrong.

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Just noticed you have suggested the Bone Bow has max 6 SpS. Mine has 7. I am on XBox however, could be different I guess.


Fixed.

I have a couple questions about upgrading Attack Speed -- if you "miss" the opportunity to upgrade it at a specific level, will you still have the chance to on the following upgrade? Also, if your weapon starts with a relatively low amount of Attack Speed, let's say a 3 or 4 Attack Speed on a Bone Bow, I don't think you have a chance to upgrade it all the way to 7. Any confirmation about these things?

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Fixed.

I have a couple questions about upgrading Attack Speed -- if you "miss" the opportunity to upgrade it at a specific level, will you still have the chance to on the following upgrade? Also, if your weapon starts with a relatively low amount of Attack Speed, let's say a 3 or 4 Attack Speed on a Bone Bow, I don't think you have a chance to upgrade it all the way to 7. Any confirmation about these things?
You will always have another chance, if you have enough upgrades. Same goes with only 3-4 speed. Just gotta get lucky with it.

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My advice is to simply add 15% or +80, whichever is lower, and to not be angry when you're off by a couple points due to the unpredictable initial decimal or the rounding.


Yeah its off by, like what? 3 and under after 10 levels?

We're not angry! we just want it... PERFECT! lol

Well its always nice to see something go above expectations! So that's gotta be better then the perfection we seek!

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Fixed.

I have a couple questions about upgrading Attack Speed -- if you "miss" the opportunity to upgrade it at a specific level, will you still have the chance to on the following upgrade? Also, if your weapon starts with a relatively low amount of Attack Speed, let's say a 3 or 4 Attack Speed on a Bone Bow, I don't think you have a chance to upgrade it all the way to 7. Any confirmation about these things?


I think if you miss the chance it is gone forever. So for example if you were going to get that chance hitting level 4, 9 and 15 (as mine was) and you miss it at 4, you will still get 9 and 15, but you will only get 2 upgrades total in the end, when you could have had 3. Of course I can't prove this. I guess it's easy to test with a trash weapon, since so far it seems that the 3 -> 4 upgrade always lets you increase SpS. So get a trash bow and deliberately miss the chance at 4 and see if you get a second chance at 5.

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I think if you miss the chance it is gone forever. So for example if you were going to get that chance hitting level 4, 9 and 15 (as mine was) and you miss it at 4, you will still get 9 and 15, but you will only get 2 upgrades total in the end, when you could have had 3. Of course I can't prove this. I guess it's easy to test with a trash weapon, since so far it seems that the 3 -> 4 upgrade always lets you increase SpS. So get a trash bow and deliberately miss the chance at 4 and see if you get a second chance at 5.


Yup, I have a whole list of things to test, and then this guide will be much more fleshed out. Just need to find some time (when I'm not at work).

EDIT: I figure I might as well list some of them out, in case others are bored and have mana to burn testing things...

a) Attack speed -- if you skip upgrading it at level 4, can you still get that upgrade to attack speed at level 5, or is it completely missed? What about for # of projectiles, or a situation where you can upgrade EITHER # of projectiles or Attack Speed?

b) Is the actual % resistance for your character actually the sum of the % resistance on your armor pieces times 75%?

c) What is the curve that describes the diminishing returns on stats -- most interested in Hero Attack and Piercing Shot, though Health should also be easy to determine.

d) do weapon types have hidden base stats that the game does not list? Is there a difference between a "heavy crossbow" and an "arcubalista" if all of the stats were identical? Easiest to test at first by getting two different weapons (though fairly similar) with same Attack Speed stat, and parsing what their attack speed actually is, to see if it's different.

e) Does Attack Speed stat act linearly -- does a 2 Attack Speed weapon shoot half as fast as that same weapon at 4 Attack Speed? Need to parse. Similar question for Reload Bonus -- 50% reduction in reload time if you double the Reload Bonus?

f) If you have a weapon of a certain type with no Reload Bonus, how does it compare with an identical weapon with +1 Reload Bonus?

f) Specific formula for upgrading Projectile Speed/Range?

g) Does negative projectile speed lower the weapons range? (it certainly does for grenade launchers) What about the reverse -- increasing projectile speed adds range?

h) What happens if you were to upgrade the Reload Bonus on a weapon with -1 Reload Bonus? Does the stat read +0, or go straight to +1? Does it disappear?

i) Tough question: do the hidden base attack rates vary for weapons of the same type? Can two different "simple shooters" or whatever, with the same Attack Speed stat, fire at different rates? If they do not vary, and are identical, then what is the base rate of fire for each weapon type (their shots per second if their Attack Speed stat was 1)?

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Yup, I have a whole list of things to test, and then this guide will be much more fleshed out. Just need to find some time (when I'm not at work).

EDIT: I figure I might as well list some of them out, in case others are bored and have mana to burn testing things...

a) Attack speed -- if you skip upgrading it at level 4, can you still get that upgrade to attack speed at level 5, or is it completely missed? What about for # of projectiles, or a situation where you can upgrade EITHER # of projectiles or Attack Speed?

b) Is the actual % resistance for your character actually the sum of the % resistance on your armor pieces times 75%?

c) What is the curve that describes the diminishing returns on stats -- most interested in Hero Attack and Piercing Shot, though Health should also be easy to determine.

d) do weapon types have hidden base stats that the game does not list? Is there a difference between a "heavy crossbow" and an "arcubalista" if all of the stats were identical? Easiest to test at first by getting two different weapons (though fairly similar) with same Attack Speed stat, and parsing what their attack speed actually is, to see if it's different.

e) Does Attack Speed stat act linearly -- does a 2 Attack Speed weapon shoot half as fast as that same weapon at 4 Attack Speed? Need to parse. Similar question for Reload Bonus -- 50% reduction in reload time if you double the Reload Bonus?

f) If you have a weapon of a certain type with no Reload Bonus, how does it compare with an identical weapon with +1 Reload Bonus?

f) Specific formula for upgrading Projectile Speed/Range?

g) Does negative projectile speed lower the weapons range? (it certainly does for grenade launchers) What about the reverse -- increasing projectile speed adds range?

h) What happens if you were to upgrade the Reload Bonus on a weapon with -1 Reload Bonus? Does the stat read +0, or go straight to +1? Does it disappear?

i) Tough question: do the hidden base attack rates vary for weapons of the same type? Can two different "simple shooters" or whatever, with the same Attack Speed stat, fire at different rates? If they do not vary, and are identical, then what is the base rate of fire for each weapon type (their shots per second if their Attack Speed stat was 1)?


a) Yes, you'll ALWAYS get another chance as long as you have enough upgrades left to make it light up again.

b) They add exactly. So 20% resistance + 20% resistance is 40%. They just have a resistance cap, which I think is 85? or something, I forget. It's to make you not be invincible.

c) (No idea)

d) No, the only differences in weapon types are how the projectiles look/act and the type of damage they inflict.

e) Yes, it does act linearly for attack speed. It's shots per second, so 2 shots per second will be half as good as 4 shots per second. The issue is that it hides decimal places. So 4 on one weapon might not be the same as 4 on another. They might be 4.1 and 4.9.

f) (No idea, need to test)

f2) (No idea, should test)

g) Not in my experience, it simply slows down the projectile rather than speed it up.

h) It goes to 0, and if you CLOSE the window, it'll disappear, so you have to upgrade it AGAIN if you don't want it to disappear. So if it's -1, upgrade it twice and it'll be a +1 and will stay on the weapon.

i) There is no base, all SPS is the same. That being said every weapon is randomized so that two "4" shots per second stats could be two different decimals. So you could have a simple shooter with 4.2 shots per second, and one with 4.8 shots per second. They simply hide the decimal places.

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a) Yes, you'll ALWAYS get another chance as long as you have enough upgrades left to make it light up again.

But you won't be able to on the following level, you'll be able to 3 levels later?

b) They add exactly. So 20% resistance + 20% resistance is 40%. They just have a resistance cap, which I think is 85? or something, I forget. It's to make you not be invincible.

This is not true. Add the % Phys resistance on your armor, and compare it to the % Phys resistance shown at the bottom of your character stats.

I've also read that the cap is 80% or 90%, which is again unconfirmed.

e) Yes, it does act linearly for attack speed. It's shots per second, so 2 shots per second will be half as good as 4 shots per second. The issue is that it hides decimal places. So 4 on one weapon might not be the same as 4 on another. They might be 4.1 and 4.9.

If this is true, it is very interesting. I was much more leaning to the idea that there is a hidden Base Attack Speed based on the weapon type, and this was a multiplier. My only evidence to suggest that was that I had a grenade launcher with 2 speed shoot MUCH slower than a Shotgun with 2 speed, and at the time the difference was so great that I immediately dismissed the possibility of it just being a decimal place difference.

h) It goes to 0, and if you CLOSE the window, it'll disappear, so you have to upgrade it AGAIN if you don't want it to disappear. So if it's -1, upgrade it twice and it'll be a +1 and will stay on the weapon.

Wow! That is very unexpected!

A new question that just occurred to me -- is there a default base reload time, in bullets reloaded per second (because obviously the more bullets you reload, the longer it takes)? I would assume the reload bonus is then a % reduction of that reload time...

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But you won't be able to on the following level, you'll be able to 3 levels later?


This is not true. Add the % Phys resistance on your armor, and compare it to the % Phys resistance shown at the bottom of your character stats.

I've also read that the cap is 80% or 90%, which is again unconfirmed.


If this is true, it is very interesting. I was much more leaning to the idea that there is a hidden Base Attack Speed based on the weapon type, and this was a multiplier. My only evidence to suggest that was that I had a grenade launcher with 2 speed shoot MUCH slower than a Shotgun with 2 speed, and at the time the difference was so great that I immediately dismissed the possibility of it just being a decimal place difference.


Wow! That is very unexpected!

A new question that just occurred to me -- is there a default base reload time, in bullets reloaded per second (because obviously the more bullets you reload, the longer it takes)? I would assume the reload bonus is then a % reduction of that reload time...


Yeah, it'll be like 3 levels later or something.

I wanted to think the cap was 80, but that seemed too easy to hit (hence me saying 85, in the middle of my guesses, lol), so I'd have to look it up, we talked about it at one point but it's been a long time.

Well, the difference between 2 shots per second and 3 shots per second is quite large. So 2 shots per second and 2.9 shots per second is almost as large.

I believe there is a base reload time based on shots in the clip. But I have no numbers or testing to back that up, so I could be wrong. I also have no idea how reload works, as I've just given myself a rule that +5 and higher is fairly instant and the perfect number to aim for.

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I have a question, not sure if its the right place or if it has already been answered. But here it is:

Is it impossible to upgrade Shots per Second? I heard you get "chances" to upgrade it, but I'm unsure of what that means. Is it guaranteed to allow you to upgrade it at certain levels? Or is it purely chance?

Trying to figure out if non-9 shots per second Blasticus' are useless or not...

Edit: Rofl, I just realized the posts above referenced upgrading shots per second, but doesn't really answer my question.

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I have a question, not sure if its the right place or if it has already been answered. But here it is:

Is it impossible to upgrade Shots per Second? I heard you get "chances" to upgrade it, but I'm unsure of what that means. Is it guaranteed to allow you to upgrade it at certain levels? Or is it purely chance?

Trying to figure out if non-9 shots per second Blasticus' are useless or not...

Edit: Rofl, I just realized the posts above referenced upgrading shots per second, but doesn't really answer my question.

Our current understanding is that you are given the chance to upgrade weapon Attack Speed every 5ish levels, starting with the upgrade from level 3 -> 4, again at 8 -> 9, etc. If you miss the opportunity to upgrade Attack Speed, you'll need to wait until 5 upgrades later. You won't be allowed to upgrade Attack Speed if the weapon is already at its cap, i.e. Blasticus has an Attack Speed cap of 10.

If you experience something different, by all means let me know.

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"5ish levels" Sounds kind of dodgy... Is it guaranteed x amount of oppurtunities, or is it purely chance?

What I mean is, for example lets say there is a 24 upgrade Blasticus. Would it definately get 4 chances to upgrade shotspeed, or would it be ~4, and there is a chance you might get less than 4 chances at upgrading the speed?

(If there is a 60/7/27 Blasticus and a 60/9/25 Blasticus, would they effectively be equal? Or is there a possibility that the 60/7/27 might NEVER get a chance to upgrade speed or only get to upgrade it once?)

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(If there is a 60/7/27 Blasticus and a 60/9/25 Blasticus, would they effectively be equal? Or is there a possibility that the 60/7/27 might NEVER get a chance to upgrade speed or only get to upgrade it once?)


Buy both and let me know.

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Buy both and let me know.

I wouldn't be asking if I could afford to buy/upgrade both >_

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I wouldn't be asking if I could afford to buy/upgrade both >_<


Then do it with a cheaper weapon :D

I'm "pretty sure" that they're essentially the same item, except you'd spend more money on the one with more upgrades, obviously.

In a weakly dominant manner, the one with more upgrades would be superior because you have the option of NOT upgrading the Attack Speed, and instead doing something else with those upgrades.

I'd test it for you if I weren't at work at the moment.

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