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What exactly is a 15% reduction in difficulty?


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I posted this in the patch notes, but never got a reply, so I thought I'd try this.

The patch notes say that the "difficulty" was reduced by 15%. But that's kind of a subjective term, so I was wondering what all went into it. 15% reduction in enemies? 15% reduction in HP? 15% reduction in HP and damage?

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As far as i can tell, 15% less health and maybe damage, but not speed.


Pretty sure speed is based on difficulty.

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Pretty sure speed is based on difficulty.


Right, but its hard to tell a 15% reduction in speed when they are already lightning fast :)

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I thought I read somewhere that when they talk percentages in this way, it has to do with the "ramp up", so it would be a 15% deduction per wave. Don't quote me on that though.

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its called cleaver use of hiding the fact they did nothing.

Map came out was a really good bridge map and should of got awards for game design

Elites Whined

Trendy's response buff 50% usings the excuse it was a "bug"

Casual whined

Trendy's respose

Nerf 15% of 50% equals 42.5% buffed if i didn't math fail.

Trendy looks like they care

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its called cleaver use of hiding the fact they did nothing.

Map came out was a really good bridge map and should of got awards for game design

Elites Whined

Trendy's response buff 50% usings the excuse it was a "bug"

Casual whined

Trendy's respose

Nerf 15% of 50% equals 42.5% buffed if i didn't math fail.

Trendy looks like they care


^ This

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its called cleaver use of hiding the fact they did nothing.

Map came out was a really good bridge map and should of got awards for game design

Elites Whined

Trendy's response buff 50% usings the excuse it was a "bug"

Casual whined

Trendy's respose

Nerf 15% of 50% equals 42.5% buffed if i didn't math fail.

Trendy looks like they care


Except it was a 10,000% buff (300k ogres going to 3 million)

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Except it was a 10,000% buff (300k ogres going to 3 million)


3million? maybe on insane i guess. On nightmare, they have 6-8mil on the first waves (of campaign)

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its a reduction in the exponential multiplier that determines enemy strength base on wave. someone who is more versed in the DDDK could give a more discrete answer, but basically you need to think of it like this:

first wave, enemies will have a difficulty that is probably something like 2*(1^1.5); next wave it would be 2.2*(1^1.5), next would be 2.42*(1^1.5)...

by the 10 combat wave, the difficulty modifier would be at 5.1875

the 15% change they made would be either a 15% reduction to the base value (in the above example the 2) or to the exponential modifier (the 1.5).

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[c3;620937']its a reduction in the exponential multiplier that determines enemy strength base on wave. someone who is more versed in the DDDK could give a more discrete answer, but basically you need to think of it like this:

first wave, enemies will have a difficulty that is probably something like 2*(1^1.5); next wave it would be 2.2*(1^1.5), next would be 2.42*(1^1.5)...

by the 10 combat wave, the difficulty modifier would be at 5.1875

the 15% change they made would be either a 15% reduction to the base value (in the above example the 2) or to the exponential modifier (the 1.5).


everyone knows this is what does that 15% equate to compared to the buff from the last patch.

Also above posters maths is wrong its 1000% buff now if that true a -15% would be nothing

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it would be 15% of what it is currently now, not 15% less than the 1000% buff, or whatever you seem to think it was..

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everyone knows this is what does that 15% equate to compared to the buff from the last patch.

Also above posters maths is wrong its 1000% buff now if that true a -15% would be nothing


you know, i mean, i completely answered the question in what i posted, you just dont want to take the time to understand it.

what does the 15% mean? it means this:

either the base level difficulty multiplier, whatever that actually is, got reduced by 15% (the more likely option); or that the exponential ramp multiplier got a 15% reduction (less likely because that would make it WAY more easy than it is now).

an example: say that currently the level is using everything i initially listed as its difficulty multiplier. say for the first wave that multiplier would be 2.2 (cause that is what i listed). what this means is that the HP and damage are multiplied by this number, probably after whatever innate nightmare difficulty multiplier they have to their stats. say for example the nightmare multiplier is 1.6, and the base stats for the ogre is 650,300 hitpoints, and its base damage is 400. the nightmare multiplier would make those numbers 1,040,480 HP and 640 damage.

then the difficulty multiplier would be applied. which would make the HP 2,289,056, and the damage 1408 for the ogres on the first wave. jump ahead 5 waves.

using the arbitrary formula i listed above, under current conditions, the multiplier for the 5th wave would be 3.543122. so, that would put ogre HP at 3,686,547 and their damage at 2267.

now, calculate for the 15% reduction that they listed in the patch notes but then removed (and again, its likely that the difficulty integer is likely what will be getting reduced, rather than the exponential modifier), it would make the 2 become 1.7. for the first wave, the multiplier would actually be 1.87.

so, first wave, ogres would have 1,945,697 HP and do 1196 damage. wave 5 the multiplier would be 3.0116537. the ogres would have 3,133,565 HP and do 1927 damage.

now, keep in mind, these are not the actual numbers or function, and i wont know the actual numbers, because i dont feel like looking through the DDDK. this is just a generalization for basically how you need to think about it.

now, if that is not an in-depth and comprehensive enough explanation for you, then i cant help you, because you are being belligerent and it is no longer my concern.

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you seem to miss my point, I get what u saying but seeing as they haven't said what the buff was in the "Bug fix patch the -15% has no "value" and that's how trendy intend it to be so they can hide the fact they did nothing to balance the map.

Rather what they did was throw out a "look shiny -15% we care" valueless information and pray blindness fools would follow the shiny -15% we care bone.

If they said difficulty is wrong in X in patch so increased difficulty by XX% then the -15% would have meaning.

They didn't because they knew people would have a mega chicken if they new the % that was increased compared to the -15% fix.

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DarkSoul, I'm sorry but, you're not reading the posts, or you don't understand what he's saying, or you don't understand how percentages work.. I can't say it any nicer than that =\

a 15% reduction by Trendy now would be a 15% decrease of the current difficulty (current being 100% and not any other number), and it wouldn't be any different no matter what the old buff was..

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They never really BUFFED the map. They just added difficulty scaling that was missing. As said above me, if there's a buff, by say, 100% up to 200%, then a 15% debuff would drop it down to 170% of what it was.

Not 1000% debuffed by 15% into 985%. It would be 850%, if they actually buffed it.


Except it was a 10,000% buff (300k ogres going to 3 million)


Even when exaggerating, you failed at math.

10000% = 100 times original, not 10x.

It would be 30million by that.

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So I had an extra 0, big deal. They still buffed it, any increase in damage/hp of the enemies is a buff.

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bugfix more than a buff in my opinion, it was missing scaling, so from memory, if your build could survive the first wave you could survive all of them cause the enemies never got harder, there were just more of them.. the ogres had less than a mil hp the whole way through NM survival..

though I could seriously be remembering that wrong..

you're probably just looking at it a different way to how I am, all a matter of perspective right?

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i think the scaling multiplier was wrong is what it was more than anything. cause i know when i did the first run with my friend, at wave 10 the ogres had like, 2.4 million HP, and at wave 30 they had like, 4.5.

of course, it could have been that i was looking at a regular ogre the first time and a copter ogre the second...

EITHER WAY, it was retardedly easy, and everyone should have known something was afoot. i mean, the devs said it was supposed to be easier than the shards maps, but come on, yeah? the funny thing is though they made it harder than misty and aquanos s now it is nowhere near easier than the shards maps.

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[c3;629645']i think the scaling multiplier was wrong is what it was more than anything. cause i know when i did the first run with my friend, at wave 10 the ogres had like, 2.4 million HP, and at wave 30 they had like, 4.5.

of course, it could have been that i was looking at a regular ogre the first time and a copter ogre the second...

EITHER WAY, it was retardedly easy, and everyone should have known something was afoot. i mean, the devs said it was supposed to be easier than the shards maps, but come on, yeah? the funny thing is though they made it harder than misty and aquanos s now it is nowhere near easier than the shards maps.


Give them a break, man. When all you do is play with 4000+ stat characters, it's pretty hard to tell which levels are harder than which.

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To enlighten those who weren't playing around release. Yes, Trendy fails at math consistently or simply gives us false informations constantly. Which of the two it is, we will simply never know.

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