rules and banning? is it really fair? (possible rant inside)

I just wanted to voice my opinion about Trendynet and their policy of banning players.

About 3-4 weeks ago there was a sales to get all up to date game+DLCs for ~$13. Having heard about the game from friends to join them in multiplayer would be fun, I bought it. After 2-3 weeks of playing 100+ hours. I'd say I've love the game ya - especially for summer time when I'm off of work. I got banned and at the time I had no idea why.

- I don't hack. I don't sell things for IRL money. I don't curse at anyone. I'm a friendly player all together. Mind you my IRL profession is a teacher and we are mostly calm, friendly, and have patients all around.

Turns out a friend informed me that because I tried to trade in game items for TF2 items, that got me banned. Okay for those that knows the rules from someone's else misfortune that's great... but that is not so fun when you are the player not knowing when it's something harmless that got you banned. This is completely unsuspecting considering steam allows trades that includes in game items, games, expansion, etc.

I wrote in my trouble ticket and it took about a week to get a response: "You have hacked items on your account; the ban is unlifted."

Okay reading this message I literally thought someone was playing a bad joke. Hacking?? I barely know how to enter codes for excel to do grading at school! As for using hacked items -- ... ... ... ? I'm not trying to sound offensive but is there a red dot on hacked items that I can tell to avoid using? Why am I being punished for breech of security in the system? Granted I shop in player shops to help catch up gear for all my higher level characters but really the stats do not seem "godly" to be obvious under my radar for being illegal (and I still don't know which piece(s) I have/had that is hacked). It just doesn't make sense that I would buy the FULL game to support the company and knowing do illegal activities on it to get banned. To say the least - I am frustrated.

I've already responded to the trouble ticket that I had no idea - and to delete the hack items or wipe my inventory then if that would allow me back to play with friends on ranked server. No response and it's been a week. It's been 2 weeks total now and I've almost given up hope of playing again.

If an admin/manager is reading. Please look into this. steam id jabo1854

I'm not trying to sound offensive but is there a red dot on hacked items that I can tell to avoid using? Why am I being punished for breech of security in the system?

It's not so much that it's a breech of the system, it's almost impossible to stop all hacking that goes on into a game, patch one thing, another will crop up. As for finding out if something's hacked, I usually go with "If it's too good to be true, it's probably not true". Usually just going with common sense. While it sucks that you got banned, you should be fine when you get your account back. Just avoid player shops for awhile, I suppose would be the best option.

I'm not either judging or accusing you, nevertheless, if the ban was not lifted, it's almost certain that you had in your account way more than one item that was hacked

[QUOTE]About Ranked bans.
There still seems to be some fears about getting permanently banned in Dungeon Defenders due to gear so this should help alleviate that. We classify bad gear on players into two categories what we like to call hacked and insanely hacked.[/QUOTE]

Insanely Hacked Gear(Permanent Ban) - If you are caught with gear like this you will get a permanent ban and there is really no exceptions. Here is a good example of this type of gear: http://i.imgur.com/zYahL.jpg This gear is quite obviously different from all other types of gear and there is no excuse for using such gear. Now a bit less obvious hacked gear would be gear with all perfect stats like 600(840 with bonus) in every slot on an ultimate piece of gear. If you're caught with just a single piece you'll most likely be placed in the other category the first time. But if you have 4 characters all with 4 pieces of maxed 600 in every stat gear you'll get a permanent ban. This type of ban is the majority of our gear bans by far.


You can check the rules (link below) yourself, since you stated you traded for TF2 items, which is also not allowed, by both valve and trendy, you should report the player that gave you hacked gear in exchange for outside items, be warned though that such trades are forbidden by valve and you might lose your steam account access also

http://forums.trendyent.com/showthread.php?74508-Item-Check-Thread



Wish you luck!

I'm always of two minds with situations like this.

On one hand, the rules against anything outside the game being used as currency for anything inside the game are pretty standard across all online games. And if simply expressing ignorance to the rules was all it takes to reverse the situation, everyone would do so. Its hardly realistic that a company, especially a relatively small one like Trendy, would have the resources to truly investigate and keep track of everyone's actions.

Of course, the fact its just a game makes me wanna say what difference does anyone's actions make if it doesn't directly interfere with the majority's enjoyment. Though perhaps that 'just a game' mentality is a double edged sword, since anyone can just move on were they to be banned, rightly or wrongly. No one is going to death row if Steam or Trendy says they broke the rules.

On the other hand, is there any real harm done if someone really did hack up a perfect set of items? Or even if they used said items to get every DD achievement? That's bragging rights at best. Not that I'm not impressed by those who have legitimately earned the toughest achievements, just that its still a game. Does it warrant what is essentially the game's version of martial law?

This is perhaps getting a bit esoteric, but I also feel that if someone pays for something, they can generally use it at they wish. I don't want to get on a rant about the current state of copyright, but I think the consumer is on a dangerous road toward accepting that we are simply 'renting' games, music, movies, etc and the owner can restrict our use at any time without even refunding the cost.

TL;DR - Its too bad this happens to people who really aren't trying to hurt anyone. I hope its resolved internally and you get your account back. Might wanna stick with Open, and if you really need some booster items then the DDDK system should accommodate without any concern for rule breaking.

You're not gonna get a response back. Sorry I never got mine back either. Your 13 bucks is gone

Thank you for the responses.

I can't do anything about the game to game items that I attempted to make in hinds sight - but I do regret not knowing specifically that even those were not allowed despite Steam allowing TF2 in game items/ other games /expansion trades.

The gear I purchase were transcendent level req 78 having stats of in the 300s base for tower stats - w/minimal hero stats, and I had another set for hero damage (with minimal tower stats) also in the 300s for HP and damage on each piece. These were pretty much max upgraded.

The gear pieces were not suspicious to where there were even 500+ base stats in any category or 10k- ish as shown in sample hacked items. My transcendent tower set that I bought gave me in the about 2100-2400 tower stats (stats INCLUDED set bonuses), and my trans hero set gave me about 1600hero health and 2000 hero damage with 600- tower stats on the complete set. My best damage weapon on a monk does 3-4mil damage WITH monk hero buff. Now I'm no expert but I've seen barbs do 100+mil dps. My main point is that the items (if I recall correctly from 2+ weeks ago) seemed legal from a 2weeks player point of view.

Now I'm not saying I'm 0% at fault, but given the circumstances I can't help but be frustrated and know what was going on.

I can't do anything about the game to game items that I attempted to make in hinds sight - but I do regret not knowing specifically that even those were not allowed despite Steam allowing TF2 in game items/ other games /expansion trades.

Forgive my ignorance on this, does Steam allow trading between games in certain cases?

Trendy should include an official rule book with every copy of the game.

This could help handle situations like this if every player knows what they are and are not allowed to do in the game.

From the very beginning and without having to go to the forums and pray they find what they need.

Trendy should include an official rule book with every copy of the game.

This could help handle situations like this if every player knows what they are and are not allowed to do in the game.

From the very beginning and without having to go to the forums and pray they find what they need.

His entire problem could've been solved by common sense. Most MMOs don't allow trading currency from other sources, (I.E: Money, unless it's between the company and the player) to be used in a game that uses its own currency. I'll admit the hacked items were, according to his story, about average when it comes to trans items. That's no fault of his, nor can anyone say that not knowing a "rule" caused him to get banned.

tldr: Use common sense when trying to figure out rules.

It would be nice if they gave 1 free chance for times like these.

Trendy should include an official rule book with every copy of the game.

This could help handle situations like this if every player knows what they are and are not allowed to do in the game.

From the very beginning and without having to go to the forums and pray they find what they need.

Why would they bother to do such a thing? They ban people, and lock their access to ranked permanently.

To fix this you have to buy a new game + all expansions pretty much and make a new account with it, so they end up winning extra moola with the people who end up buying the game once more.

Smart plan don't ya think?

Honestly i think they should have went on a suspension basis on some sort of situations like this. Temporarly ban a player and leave a one time warning, after that ban was lifted the account would be on the verge of being permanently banned if the player happened to break another rule.
But what can i say about this? Trendy hardly does a good job at balancing the game, so i'm not surprised they haven't done anything better/suitable to this type of problems.

Why would they bother to do such a thing? They ban people, and lock their access to ranked permanently.

To fix this you have to buy a new game + all expansions pretty much and make a new account with it, so they end up winning extra moola with the people who end up buying the game once more.

Smart plan don't ya think?

Honestly i think they should have went on a suspension basis on some sort of situations like this. Temporarly ban a player and leave a one time warning, after that ban was lifted the account would be on the verge of being permanently banned if the player happened to break another rule.
But what can i say about this? Trendy hardly does a good job at balancing the game, so i'm not surprised they haven't done anything better/suitable to this type of problems.

Smart play?? I don't see how Trendy is different from other companies, they are trying to keep cheaters and hackers and $$$ sellers at bay, being an small company.

At least they are not intent in anal probing you every time you log into the game, like some other companies out there, while being vastly unsuccessful at anything other than inconveniencing their legit customers.

But wait, it seems that what's happening is that you are not satisfied with the game not being balanced towards your liking, well, tough luck I guess, what an evil company trendy is.

Why would they bother to do such a thing? They ban people, and lock their access to ranked permanently.

To fix this you have to buy a new game + all expansions pretty much and make a new account with it, so they end up winning extra moola with the people who end up buying the game once more.

Smart plan don't ya think?

Honestly i think they should have went on a suspension basis on some sort of situations like this. Temporarly ban a player and leave a one time warning, after that ban was lifted the account would be on the verge of being permanently banned if the player happened to break another rule.
But what can i say about this? Trendy hardly does a good job at balancing the game, so i'm not surprised they haven't done anything better/suitable to this type of problems.

If I didn't know better, I'd say you're a very upset individual. Wait, never mind, I don't know better.

Forgive my ignorance on this, does Steam allow trading between games in certain cases?

Yes, it does, there's no restrictions within Steam's rules about trading items / games for other games / items in other games.

https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=6748-ETSG-5417

Steam games earned through stuff like last year's Summer (I think it was summer) sales, bought as gifts, or extra copies acquired go to your inventory where you can trade them / gift them to other people, the inventory system also supports the trading of items for TF2, Portal 2, and Spiral Knights.

I don't know if Trendy actually bans game accounts for trading DD items for other Steam stuff, if they do then thats just outright stupid, but I know that people aren't supposed to talk about doing it on these forums.

Yes, it does, there's no restrictions within Steam's rules about trading items / games for other games / items in other games.

https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=6748-ETSG-5417

Steam games earned through stuff like last year's Summer (I think it was summer) sales, bought as gifts, or extra copies acquired go to your inventory where you can trade them / gift them to other people, the inventory system also supports the trading of items for TF2, Portal 2, and Spiral Knights.

I don't know if Trendy actually bans game accounts for trading DD items for other Steam stuff, if they do then thats just outright stupid, but I know that people aren't supposed to talk about doing it on these forums.

From that link:

[QUOTE]What items can be traded?

Currently, Steam gifts/games, Team Fortress 2 items, Spiral Knights items and Portal 2 items can all be traded.

Will there be other games that support trading?

We’re working now with other game developers to incorporate both Trading and Inventories.

What do you mean by trading Steam Gifts?

Any game you’ve purchased from the store as a gift, or received as an Extra Copy, can be traded to other users. They can be used to trade for other Gifts, or for items in games supporting Steam Trading. We’ve added a new checkout option to the Store when purchasing a gift so you can save it for trading or sending later, to support users who want to save games for trade fodder.[/QUOTE]

Correct if I'm wrong, I don't see DD in that list of games, so, there are restrictions after all.

From that link:



Correct if I'm wrong, I don't see DD in that list of games, so, there are restrictions after all.

Only that DD doesn't use the inventory system to do the trades directly. There's nothing in those rules saying I can't trade something for an item in a different game that isn't directly supported by Steam's trading system.

Only that DD doesn't use the inventory system to do the trades directly. There's nothing in those rules saying I can't trade something for an item in a different game that isn't directly supported by Steam's trading system.

Valve's rules, Trendy's rules might differ, in fact, they do

[QUOTE]Other types of bans that can happen(Permanent Ban)

1. Selling items, mana, power leveling services, or map runs for real life money/DLC/Steam Games or actual Team Fortress 2 Game items(the TF2 pets/portal gun are okay).

2. Using 3rd party programs to modify/hack your account. Only the DDDK tool is allowed to be used in Dungeon Defenders.[/QUOTE]

http://forums.trendyent.com/showthread.php?74508-Item-Check-Thread&p=602229&viewfull=1[[1635,hashtags]]

I'm not taking sides here mind you, just trying to keep all facts in sight.

Valve's rules, Trendy's rules might differ, in fact, they do



http://forums.trendyent.com/showthread.php?74508-Item-Check-Thread&p=602229&viewfull=1[[1635,hashtags]]

I'm not taking sides here mind you, just trying to keep all facts in sight.

Well, that is pretty dumb since trading stuff b/w games / for games is something that Steam supports. If the guy is new to the game he wouldn't know that unless he came here and saw that thread since there's no kind of EULA to read when you start DD up, is there? Not like anyone would read a EULA though.

Valve's rules, Trendy's rules might differ, in fact, they do



http://forums.trendyent.com/showthread.php?74508-Item-Check-Thread&p=602229&viewfull=1[[1635,hashtags]]

I'm not taking sides here mind you, just trying to keep all facts in sight.

"Selling" is what I see. Doesn't mention anything about trading unless I missed something

they should just not ban people for having hacked stuff, only if you were caught hacking.

How can some newbie know when he buys something that it is hacked. It can maybe feel like it is to good to be true, but that doesn't necessarily make it to good to be true. And what do I care if some person wants to spoil the game for himself in a single player game by hacking his way towards being able to complete it. Heck I don't even care if it would be like that in a multiplayer game.

As long as the balance isn't adjusted towards the hacked gear. In the end I play to have fun, and for the simple fact of doing it on my own.

they should just not ban people for having hacked stuff, only if you were caught hacking.

How can some newbie know when he buys something that it is hacked. It can maybe feel like it is to good to be true, but that doesn't necessarily make it to good to be true. And what do I care if some person wants to spoil the game for himself in a single player game by hacking his way towards being able to complete it. Heck I don't even care if it would be like that in a multiplayer game.

As long as the balance isn't adjusted towards the hacked gear. In the end I play to have fun, and for the simple fact of doing it on my own.

That's definitely not the solution. Then everyone uses the line "I didn't know".

hate to break it to you, but most players don't visit official forums for the games they play.

its a bit like using Windows, but on microsoft's official forum there is an post that you are not allowed to install any programs that use the unreal3 engine.

leaving consumers with:
- not knowing the rule
- not knowing what program (in this case items) the rule exactly applies too.

I've heard of some people hacking gear, making it look legit, and selling it in shops. Trolls know no bounds.

hate to break it to you, but most players don't visit official forums for the games they play.

its a bit like using Windows, but on microsoft's official forum there is an post that you are not allowed to install any programs that use the unreal3 engine.

leaving consumers with:
- not knowing the rule
- not knowing what program (in this case items) the rule exactly applies too.

Is that similar to arguing that you didn't know it was illegal to rob a bank if you were a bank robber?

Granted that's one extreme, and some people may not know. But as has been said, if it sounds too good to be true it usually is.

From what I have heard, those getting banned were from ridiculously hacked items.

Is that similar to arguing that you didn't know it was illegal to rob a bank if you were a bank robber?

Granted that's one extreme, and some people may not know. But as has been said, if it sounds too good to be true it usually is.

From what I have heard, those getting banned were from ridiculously hacked items.

the fact there is no way to know what hacked or not hacked is still lol and there are legit items that that to someone might look hacked but are not, the too good to be true is an absurd policy and there should be a clear way to tell if an item is hacked so that people are not banned for legit items cause some random GM "THINKS IT LOOKS TOO GOOD"