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Tsuda

The King's Game and its state of balance.

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Funny how this didn't come up during play testing, since I found the issue the VERY FIRST TIME I tried a solo Survival run. Also funny that no one noticed the first time around when the map was apparently 1/10th of the intended difficulty, if the following buff was any indication.

You'd think that sort of stuff would be hard to miss... but I'm sure it's not a sign of shoddy play testing. I'm sure that's not the problem. Totally sure.


I did have the same issue when the map was easy, but then I also had my reflect walls able to easily handle the missile barrage till something managed to destroy the copter. Now that it's hard, it's an issue because they can easily destroy your hero and defenses.

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Even as broken as copters are, if defenses prioritized them, it would be much less of a problem. Also reduce the cooldown on flares so our defenses have a chance at shooting them down before they drop the ogre. A bunch of meat shields running around requiring our towers to focus on them is not balance.

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Even as broken as copters are, if defenses prioritized them, it would be much less of a problem. Also reduce the cooldown on flares so our defenses have a chance at shooting them down before they drop the ogre. A bunch of meat shields running around requiring our towers to focus on them is not balance.


What I don't get is if you search the previous patch notes you'll find at one point the reduced the number of ogres by 40%. They obviously though there was too many, but now with the goblin copters they not only ramp the number of ogres back up but they give the copter ogres significantly more hp. I never understood why copters just don't carry mini ogres.

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I believe the word you're looking for is "increase."


Yeah yeah, I have a difficult time making English on occasion :P

What I don't get is if you search the previous patch notes you'll find at one point the reduced the number of ogres by 40%. They obviously though there was too many, but now with the goblin copters they not only ramp the number of ogres back up but they give the copter ogres significantly more hp. I never understood why copters just don't carry mini ogres.


Copters carrying mini ogres would not only make more sense from a physics standpoint, but they would be more manageable. I know everyone complains about new mobs aimed at gumming up our previous defense layouts, but copters are really in a league of their own.

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The sad thing is that it really isn't just the copters making this map ridiculous. It is the severe lack of DU for how little space you have to work with; that mixed with the randomness of where the enemies come from. To top it off, ogres have such a huge amount of HP starting off, that unless you are playing with at least one other person or have tower stats of around the 2k range, then there is no hope for you on NM.

Hence defeating the purpose of it being a 'bridge into nightmare'.

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agree mostly, since i already did the campaign when it was sitll easy, i got survival, but i didn't last 2 waves doing survival NM (not hardcore) starting from wave 10 (to get enough mana to have the whole build set up)

i would classify this map now as equally difficult as shard dlc, maybe slightly less difficult (but only minimal) compared to sky city since i can't even do 1 wave there

i cna however do morrago misty and aqua solo, but this one i had to call my friend in, so i don't think it's quite the bridge to shard dlc YET

hope you guys find a solution :)

EDIT; oh and insane HCMM doesn't give much good loot, none actually, even on wave 30, so it's not that you could do insane runs to get geared up for the nightmare run, there were barely mythicals on wave 28 xD (30 had quite a few, but all were bad :p)

Cipher

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Thank you for addressing this very serious issue.

I do not want to seem greedy but please stop the Djinn as well.

The Djinn are now fairly easy to deal with EXCEPT when they hang off the top of the screen out of range of everything pelting pot shots buffing and desummoning at will. They do this often on Aquanos and other maps.

Thanks again and keep up the good work!


I want to add to this, I wish I had taken a screenshot, but at the very top of the map (as you see it on the mini map) the Djinn can be stuck behind the landscape and neither the pet or hero can attack it. I have even tried with a piercing pet.

This isn't ground breaking in itself, but leaves them open to golding enemies endlessly.

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trendy, just post saying if you're gonna fix this or not. i need to know if i should waste any more time with this game.

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trendy, just post saying if you're gonna fix this or not. i need to know if i should waste any more time with this game.


I've been under the impression that answer was no you shouldn't waste your time for a good few months now. Trendy haven't changed back then when it comes to this sorta thing, Why would they now?

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Well the NMHC campaign is much easier now IMO. Yesterday I was actually able to beat it several times. I have not attempted the survival again, but the changes they made are in the right direction. And I beat this with 1500~ stats(DPS around 3 mil nightmare dps).

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Well the NMHC campaign is much easier now IMO. Yesterday I was actually able to be it several times. I have not attempted the survival again, but the changes they made are in the right direction. And I beat this with 1500~ stats(DPS around 3 mil nightmare dps).

3mill DPS in nm? Can I ask what you're using as DPS? I'm finding that I need more DPS these days.

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Seahorses just need strength drain auras :)


Hell, why stop there? Just give the thing it's own Pocket Dimension with every single tower, hero ability and mob attack in the game.

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Should totally be the next Ranger/Huntress weapon. A portable Ballista that fires Apprentice Barriers. Give it the Elemental Removal effect and a small degree of piercing, give it damage and scaling to compete with the better weapons out there, and you'll have yourselves a reason to Huntress/Ranger DPS.

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Making the enemies as a difficult as Sky City is going to work very poorly on this map, imo. It's way too small and confined to have 60 million hp ogres that can whack the crystal from 25 meters away. And not to mention the wyvern projectiles and goblin copter rockets that somehow damage your defenses despite the fact that they directly hit a reflect wall.


Yesterday was the first time i went into the map, just joining someone's game to have a look. The very first thing that came to my mind was similiar to "OMFG!!!!!!! FLAT SPACE AROUND THE CRYSTAL! ONLY TWO DIRECTIONS PER CRYSTAL AND WHHHHAT ONLY 2 CRYSTALS! I JUST CAME IN MY PANTS THIS IS GONNA BE EASY! AND THANK HEAVEN NO STAIRS/AIR LIFTS NEAR THE CRYSTAL FOR SHAKRKEN TO CHEAT PAST GAS TRAPS SOMEONE SLAP ME I MUST BE DREAMING!"

Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk 2

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3mill DPS in nm? Can I ask what you're using as DPS? I'm finding that I need more DPS these days.


Tang my monk gets 9mil nm dps with boosted 247ups seashorse. The trick to NM dps is pets and monk hero boost. Pets do several times more dps in nm because they get a nm buff. Seahorse does the most, and a monks hero boost will triple it. My oet does 3mil in nm without boost, 9mil with

A pet will do more dps than hero's in nm because hero's get a dmg nerf. A heavy nerf.

Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk 2

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Yesterday was the first time i went into the map, just joining someone's game to have a look. The very first thing that came to my mind was similiar to "OMFG!!!!!!! FLAT SPACE AROUND THE CRYSTAL! ONLY TWO DIRECTIONS PER CRYSTAL AND WHHHHAT ONLY 2 CRYSTALS! I JUST CAME IN MY PANTS THIS IS GONNA BE EASY! AND THANK HEAVEN NO STAIRS/AIR LIFTS NEAR THE CRYSTAL FOR SHAKRKEN TO CHEAT PAST GAS TRAPS SOMEONE SLAP ME I MUST BE DREAMING!"

Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk 2


And what was your second thought after having done the map?

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Didnt have time to try it out yet. But i got to skycity solo nm 25 on my tower summoner. You just gotta know how ogres behave to walls and the rest is easy. I lost on SC because the map was evidently made to force you down a narrow path of play style. Crystals in SC are positioned in such a way to be difficult/impossible to use walls in the usual ways.

Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk 2

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Tang my monk gets 9mil nm dps with boosted 247ups seashorse. The trick to NM dps is pets and monk hero boost. Pets do several times more dps in nm because they get a nm buff. Seahorse does the most, and a monks hero boost will triple it. My oet does 3mil in nm without boost, 9mil with

A pet will do more dps than hero's in nm because hero's get a dmg nerf. A heavy nerf.

Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk 2

Time to farm myself a better seahorse, level a DPS monk and run Volcanic Eruption. I wish there was a proper alternative to DPS monk though. My Huntress only does 500K DPS in nm without a pet.

Didnt have time to try it out yet. But i got to skycity solo nm 25 on my tower summoner. You just gotta know how ogres behave to walls and the rest is easy. I lost on SC because the map was evidently made to force you down a narrow path of play style. Crystals in SC are positioned in such a way to be difficult/impossible to use walls in the usual ways.

Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk 2

I think it's worth trying. For me the problem isn't so much the health of ogres, but their incredible speed just from wave 1. Even on insane the ogres blow past me and sometimes it seems like they can glitch through walls(proper walls, not minion walls).

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Time to farm myself a better seahorse, level a DPS monk and run Volcanic Eruption. I wish there was a proper alternative to DPS monk though. My Huntress only does 500K DPS in nm without a pet.


I think it's worth trying. For me the problem isn't so much the health of ogres, but their incredible speed just from wave 1. Even on insane the ogres blow past me and sometimes it seems like they can glitch through walls(proper walls, not minion walls).


I wish my barb could compete with my monk, even with the same pet he doesnt compare.

Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk 2

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