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Tsuda

The King's Game and its state of balance.

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Sorry, but effectively doubling the amount of DU you can spend on towers makes this game MUCH MUCH MUCH easier then before shards came out. If it doesn't, then you're doing something wrong.


You are missing my point.

The EV and Summonner make things easier.
The Spiders, Sharks, Djinn and Copters make it MUCH MUCH MUCH harder.

Yeah, insane is now a cakewalk. But nightmare is VERY MUCH harder than it was before the new classes and monsters.

Playing nightmare before the new monsters, even with the new classes was not even CLOSE to how hard it is now.

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You're just spinning your gears, anyone who already has decked out heroes isn't going to see the new content as a problem. Unless it makes the game enjoyable for other people :P

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As it is, my 1.5k stats can only get me to wave 15 if I try very hard.

This game needs more than a 15% difficulty reduction, it needs about a 25%-35%.

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Specific map issues aside, you shouldn't have to have myths to ease into insane mode. If you do, there's something very wrong with your builds (or maybe you use one builder only, which you shouldn't either). I'd say you have bigger things to worry about in this game than just the king's game. It's been said the map is going to be made easier, it's up in the patch notes as well. But when you need mythicals to ease into insane mode, I'd recommend you to not comment on balance issues too much.

Also, with about 2k in my main stats I can do this map on insane hardcore with just two harpoons, a buff beam, and three auras at each crystal. No walls, no minions, no traps. And that's with four people in there. I guess with the open space towards the crystal (i.e. you need to wall off a large distance) there's a huge difference between killing ogres before they even get close and having to whittle them down at your walls.


I am using 3 builders. My EV, my Squire, and my Summoner. I use more harpoons than using Auras, because I cant seem to find any good Tower builds for a Monk. Don't come to me acting like you know me. I do know about balance. I have been able to do all campaign on hardHC. I should be able to do KG, and I was. Now people are saying they cant even do it on Insane when they can do Glitter on NMHC? Thats NOT balanced. Thanks.

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As it is, my 1.5k stats can only get me to wave 15 if I try very hard.

This game needs more than a 15% difficulty reduction, it needs about a 25%-35%.


I agree.

My tower squire is around 1400-1600, EV in the 1k range, and a summoner in the 700-900 range. My friend who I play with has a monk in the 1100 range. Yet we can barely make it to wave 15, if even that... How is this suppose to be some kind of stepping stone if the gear we have was obtained by purchasing from players who in turn farmed them from maps we were unable to do with low tier myths? The progression already made little to no sense, and this was just a slap in the face.

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I agree.

My tower squire is around 1400-1600, EV in the 1k range, and a summoner in the 700-900 range. My friend who I play with has a monk in the 1100 range. Yet we can barely make it to wave 15, if even that... How is this suppose to be some kind of stepping stone if the gear we have was obtained by purchasing from players who in turn farmed them from maps we were unable to do with low tier myths? The progression already made little to no sense, and this was just a slap in the face.


Even this would be a start if good gear dropped at wave 15. Forget the difficulty of higher waves, but survival simply takes eons. Welcome to playing for 2 hours to get to wave 15 and having complete trash. Their solution: make it to higher waves, kid. Nobody wants to partake in a time wasting mathematical grind. Reward people for their time.

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You are missing my point.

The EV and Summonner make things easier.
The Spiders, Sharks, Djinn and Copters make it MUCH MUCH MUCH harder.

Yeah, insane is now a cakewalk. But nightmare is VERY MUCH harder than it was before the new classes and monsters.

Playing nightmare before the new monsters, even with the new classes was not even CLOSE to how hard it is now.


Did you play the game back then when nightmare came to be?? From you comments one can guess that probably not because spiders where there right from the start, in case you didn't know.

And we didn't have Barbs or EVs or Summs or Jesters. Oh, and full survival runs took 10+ hours because the later waves were HUGE.

I'm not arguing in favor of elitists, but this "we have it harder" argument coming from causal players is as baseless as they come.

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Did you play the game back then when nightmare came to be?? From you comments one can guess that probably not because spiders where there right from the start, in case you didn't know.

And we didn't have Barbs or EVs or Summs or Jesters. Oh, and full survival runs took 10+ hours because the later waves were HUGE.

I'm not arguing in favor of elitists, but this "we have it harder" argument coming from causal players is as baseless as they come.


But all that statement shows is that nothing has really changed. The game was bad before and it's still bad now, just for different reasons, it was Survival Before and now it's Imbalance and extreme bias toward the need for DLC Characters just to get anywhere. So yeah, before Trendy were just incompetent, now they're incompetent AND they're greedy by constantly making paid content the end all and be all for getting anywhere. Sure, they have done some good too, like fixing survival. And their Community Team are stellar. But everything else? VERY, little to be desired. If they were to release another game, or a sequel to this one, I would exercise extreme caution when buying it, and would encourage everyone I know to do the same using Dungeon Defenders as an example.

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But all that statement shows is that nothing has really changed. The game was bad before and it's still bad now, just for different reasons, it was Survival Before and now it's Imbalance and extreme bias toward the need for DLC Characters just to get anywhere. So yeah, before Trendy were just incompetent, now they're incompetent AND they're greedy by constantly making paid content the end all and be all for getting anywhere. Sure, they have done some good too, like fixing survival. And their Community Team are stellar. But everything else? VERY, little to be desired. If they were to release another game, or a sequel to this one, I would exercise extreme caution when buying it, and would encourage everyone I know to do the same using Dungeon Defenders as an example.


Is it realy that bad give them some time holy crap the map came out a few days ago it will get fixed again soon

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Is it realy that bad give them some time holy crap the map came out a few days ago it will get fixed again soon


When was I targeting this map specifically? I was talking in general here. They do still have time to make amends, but the problem is how long will we have to wait? Especially considering that they seem to just be playing with numbers and not giving an impression that any of the changes they make are being tested to ensure they work. The same impression they left all to often in the past.

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So yeah, before Trendy were just incompetent, now they're incompetent AND they're greedy by constantly making paid content the end all and be all for getting anywhere.


I don't think Trendy is greedy at all. They have definitely made some blunders on the game design side, but I think it's more from them being a young company, not spending enough time testing their stuff and only listening to a narrow sample of the playerbase when making changes. But the impression I've gotten from reading their posts and watching their livestreams is that they are nice people that do care about their playerbase.

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I don't think Trendy is greedy at all. They have definitely made some blunders on the game design side, but I think it's more from them being a young company, not spending enough time testing their stuff and only listening to a narrow sample of the playerbase when making changes. But the impression I've gotten from reading their posts and watching their livestreams is that they are nice people that do care about their playerbase.


+1

...

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I don't think Trendy is greedy at all. They have definitely made some blunders on the game design side, but I think it's more from them being a young company, not spending enough time testing their stuff and only listening to a narrow sample of the playerbase when making changes. But the impression I've gotten from reading their posts and watching their livestreams is that they are nice people that do care about their playerbase.


That's why I always say that, at the very least, the Community Management is pretty damn top-notch as far as that goes. I just wish they had more power over the game, after all, it's more likes of Jerome that get to call the shots. And their shots seem to span along the lines of "Make DLC, balance game around said DLC, so that DLC sells more". I mean, I literally cannot think doing any of these Nightmare Maps without the likes of the Summoner and EV. At least not without putting in three times as much time just to get around.

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Want to see a greedy company that exploits its players? Check out the forums on the North American version of Dragon's Nest and you'll see.

Anyways, Trendy isn't like that, but still they need to do better quality control.

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I don't see Trendy as greedy, and I didn't even back when they released genders for 5 bucks, however I do feel they have no real business sense and are incapable of making decisions that are related to that very subject.

Imo, issues in a video game such as this are very much related to a discussion of business; they keep playing tug o war with its customers with these radical changes and mistakes/'fixes' that could cause them to lose future sales on future titles. I have to wonder if they even have meetings to discuss big changes or big additions to the game, because as it stands now, it feels like 1 or 2 of the developers changed a couple numbers behind the rest's back, and called it good with little to no testing.

I am led to believe this because of the statements made about the map being a stepping stone, and then later 'taken back' by the statement that they did not actually mean for the map to be so easy by another person. They claimed it would still be in between the shard maps and the original campaign, yet here we are with an incredibly hard map that only end game players can enjoy. I use the word enjoy very loosely. Anyway, I suppose in my mind it all boils down to one thing. They are not only an inexperienced group of game designers, but they don't have a competent one among them who can lead the team in the right direction. They are just free for all'ing these changes. For those of you who have been playing since release, you have to realize that even worse decisions were made back then that caused this game to practically die for several months. Wasn't until the first batch of sales that some newbies came into the mix, and then the summer sale breathing new life into it.

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Want to see a greedy company that exploits its players? Check out the forums on the North American version of Dragon's Nest and you'll see.

Anyways, Trendy isn't like that, but still they need to do better quality control.


I've actually thought the same, except I played Dungeon Fighters. Trendy is way better than Nexon. Even if they do have their flaws, at least Trendy is active with the community and responds to the community

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I don't think calling Trendy incompetent is any more fair than calling them greedy. If they were incompetent there wouldn't be a dungeon defenders in the first place.

That said, they do tend to be very reactionary and ham fisted when it comes to balance issues. They always have been since I started playing the game a month or two after the PC launch. Just look at the balancing changes to the squire after release, and then the apprentice shortly after shards 1. Back when UMF came out it was super loot (back when 50-60 upgrades qualified as "super"), which they said would not be changed, then changed it 4 hours after release. Now we have this. As I mentioned in another thread, both new and stuck players needed this to remain a transitional map. The folks who've been around since shards 1 got to ease into nightmare one new enemy at a time. By the time they faced the second, handling the first was something they'd already learned well. Newer players coming from the summer sale are having to face spiders, djinn, sharken, and (worst of all) copters all being thrown at them at once with no real opportunity to gear up through the gradual additions that veterans had.

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Not sure where exactly greed started playing a part in this map seems more like Hanlon's razor if anything.

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I don't think calling Trendy incompetent is any more fair than calling them greedy. If they were incompetent there wouldn't be a dungeon defenders in the first place.

That said, they do tend to be very reactionary and ham fisted when it comes to balance issues. They always have been since I started playing the game a month or two after the PC launch. Just look at the balancing changes to the squire after release, and then the apprentice shortly after shards 1. Back when UMF came out it was super loot (back when 50-60 upgrades qualified as "super"), which they said would not be changed, then changed it 4 hours after release. Now we have this. As I mentioned in another thread, both new and stuck players needed this to remain a transitional map. The folks who've been around since shards 1 got to ease into nightmare one new enemy at a time. By the time they faced the second, handling the first was something they'd already learned well. Newer players coming from the summer sale are having to face spiders, djinn, sharken, and (worst of all) copters all being thrown at them at once with no real opportunity to gear up through the gradual additions that veterans had.


Depends in what sense you use the meaning. They made a game, so they are obviously capable of game design. The game is pretty good, so we know they have a good sense of what makes a game fun for many people. I think the main issue here is how they handle issues and their organization within the team. One person says one thing, and then another says something completely different, hence the map being made into what it is now.

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Well, I have no experience with KG after the mob buff, but I'm on wave 15 with no problems. Like, at all. This is on mixmode as well. I'll edit this when I hit 20, 25, and 30.

Edit: Why do copter ogres have 24 mil hp or so, while normal ones are barely even 10 mil? Dafuq?

Edit for wave 20: It's just a lot of repairing. Nothing really remarkable.

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And why are Ogre moving faster than my Jester can run on wave 12 of Insane survival?

There seems to be something screwed up. I took a screenshot earlier of Ogres on wave 22 of Magus Quarters NMHC with 32 million hp. Yes, 32 million. Soon as I get home I plan to upload them and submit it as a bug.

When I saw the first one I thought it was a visual bug, surely that Ogre didn't have 32 million. Then a second showed up before the first was even at half and sure enough...32 million HP.

I couldn't kill 1 32 million HP ogre before it crushed the line, but a group of them?

Seems something is wonky somewhere. I dunno what, but I noticed several cases of mobs being out of wack.

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So has anyone tried the map since the recent 15% nerf? Does it make it more manageable?


A little bit. but not really, my countess and EV are over 2000 stats for towers and with 4 people, we barely survived and they had decent dps weapons and stats too and yes, I do know a decent build for it. I hate copter missiles.........

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So has anyone tried the map since the recent 15% nerf? Does it make it more manageable?


Not really still get stomped into the ground first wave at wave 20 survival

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