New map is way to easy...

This entire thread in four words : You can't please everybody.

I haven't even tried the map yet, but frankly the idea of an easier map with good rewards sounds wonderful. Nightmare was utterly impenetrable for me until I went and bought gear from player-shops, but I would have preferred being able to find gear myself. Sounds like this map could be that necessary stepping stone.

I've seen a lot of complaints saying that the reward/time_and_effort was too low and ruining the game.

Now you have an enjoyable map allowing good loots for low effort and time. Complaints again.

That's easy to explain.

People stuck with low end myth gear who can't get to waves 25-30 in Shards maps to get better gear like this because now they can progress without spending 4 hours on Misty survival to MAYBE get an upgrade.

People with 10 characters that have stats in the 3000's who can AFK most survival runs are unhappy because this map is utterly boring.

Those on the top of the mountain are going to have quite a different view of this map than the ones still struggling to claw their way out of the mines deep below.

Again I could care less that the map is easy. It is the rewards that are wrong. Make the map easy and help bridge the gap from insane to nightmare. That sounds like a very good idea, but making the rewards the best in the game is wrong. That makes literally zero sense at all.

And also I agree that the reward for time/ vs effort is bad and needs to be fixed. This map does nothing at all the help change that. You still have to waste just as much time to hope rng favors you, only now you don't actually have to play the map and can afk for half an hour.

I have bought every dlc and have enjoyed the game very much in my almost 900 hours played. I think I have a right to voice my complaints when a joke of a map comes out. The rewards are way to good for the effort needed to complete this map.

First off the only one that can be considered "the best" for its class is the pawn shooter. Secondly why dose it matter new players have been needing something to bridge the gap between NM and insane for awhile this is what they need. So instead of complaining about the new free map and ruining if for new players so they might just be able to progress to NM now just be happy and play the maps you like.

Lets see, what is the problem you say? A map that is easy to beat, takes little time to do so, and rewards the best loot in the game making working for anything better unnecessary.

Easy to beat, takes little time, and rewards the best possible stuff. Exactly what one would think of when they think of poor game design.

I still need to see what kind of armor drops on survival. And someone just posted an ultimate Light Knight (the squire weapon) for sale in the trading forums, it only gets 117 damage per up. I have a trans Enchanted Bishop (the mage weapon) and that's not very good either, only 70 something per up. The trans monk weapon I got gives about 170 per ranged up; the melee was around 250, but it's too small and slow for a melee weapon.

So it seems like actually this map gives you the just best huntress weapon the game and a good monk weapon, not all of the best stuff. I'll do a survival run and see how that goes for armor, but so far it seems like you're not even going to come close to pimping out all your characters with this map.

The "not fun" part, I'll try to clear..

Standing around to "afk" a map is your choice. Letting the towers do the work is your choice. I'll repeat that the map can easily relate to a bouncy house. With your logic, you would blow the house up, and then sit in the middle, waiting for it to bounce you up. It's easy to wait, but you yourself have to MAKE the fun in the house happen. YOU have to run and jump and fall and slam into the bouncy walls and floors. It will not do it for you.

The potential is there, you're just not using it.
Standing on the map is the same, it will not make it fun for you. You have to shoot down mobs, and run onto the tiles to fling yourself up. It's not a video of someone else having fun, it's you.

If how you play on the map is what you find fun about it, then if the rewards were significantly reduced it should not have any impact on how much enjoyment you receive from the map, correct?

Well I would have to say it's the most fun I've had in DD in a while. To anyone who has 3k+ stats and thinks it's too easy, go ahead and grind elsewhere.

I still need to see what kind of armor drops on survival. And someone just posted an ultimate Light Knight (the squire weapon) for sale in the trading forums, it only gets 117 damage per up. I have a trans Enchanted Bishop (the mage weapon) and that's not very good either, only 70 something per up. The trans monk weapon I got gives about 170 per ranged up; the melee was around 250, but it's too small and slow for a melee weapon.

So it seems like actually this map gives you the just best huntress weapon the game and a good monk weapon, not all of the best stuff. I'll do a survival run and see how that goes for armor, but so far it seems like you're not even going to come close to pimping out all your characters with this map.

I can tell you right now the gear on survival is better then Talay Mining Complex NMHC

If how you play on the map is what you find fun about it, then if the rewards were significantly reduced should not have any impact on how much enjoyment you receive from the map, correct?

The rewards are cool, but my opinion still holds firm. The map is fun.
Lesser rewards wouldn't change a thing.

The rewards are cool, but my opinion still holds firm. The map is fun.
Lesser rewards wouldn't change a thing.

That is good, because I have not been arguing about the map not being fun. I have been saying only that the rewards are too good for the difficulty, how much fun I have on the map is a different matter.

That is good, because I have not been arguing about the map not being fun. I have been saying only that the rewards are too good for the difficulty, how much fun I have on the map is a different matter.

No, that wasn't even directed towards you, whoopsie. Sorry for not clarifying.

The map does not help bridge the gap. It lets you completely bypass every other map. Wave 18 trans start dropping with ogres at 2mil health.

My stats aren't exactly great, but I just facerolled nmhc. Didn't even break out the summoner, just three clusters of buffed harps and a couple reflect walls at each crystal and it's sorted.

Lets see, what is the problem you say? A map that is easy to beat, takes little time to do so, and rewards the best loot in the game making working for anything better unnecessary.

Easy to beat, takes little time, and rewards the best possible stuff. Exactly what one would think of when they think of poor game design.

You used the trap word :p

Dafuq is "working" ? I'm here to play.

So the best possible stuff is obtainable on an easy and fun map ? God how punished we are :\

This game had a design problem when finishing stuff was way easier than getting better gear. So if farming a lot you could obtain a gear overpowering the content (not talking about shards survival, it's never required but an available challenge).

Now with this map and CD you have a map to get stuff that is actually easier than the hardest content proposed. Seems well designed to me.

Honestly after having finished all original campaign and mistymire on survival NMHC and not getting a single upgrade I felt like the game had a design issue...

I still don't see where the problem is... What I see is that this game apparently doesn't correspond to your standards anymore.

I love this new map, it helps me break my characters in NM mode and makes it more fun for group games with out having to be all serious and not being kicked for not having 2k+ stats is nice too!

Just imagine if this was a harder map... People would kick players for stepping on the tiles because they may launch them in the air and kill another person or make the enemies golden with the jester wheel.

With map being easier we wont have those problems.

Dear Trendy,

A easier Nightmare map that will boost people into Nightmare in general?

THANK YOU! :)

Sincerely,
A Casual Player Attempting to Break Into Nightmare

Standing around to "afk" a map is your choice. Letting the towers do the work is your choice. I'll repeat that the map can easily relate to a bouncy house. With your logic, you would blow the house up, and then sit in the middle, waiting for it to bounce you up. It's easy to wait, but you yourself have to MAKE the fun in the house happen. YOU have to run and jump and fall and slam into the bouncy walls and floors. It will not do it for you.

The potential is there, you're just not using it. Standing on the map is the same, it will not make it fun for you. You have to shoot down mobs, and run onto the tiles to fling yourself up. It's not a video of someone else having fun, it's you.

Very well-stated! Like you said earlier, on the older DLC stages, people were either going AFK or alternating Monk boosts and flash heals because that's the only option they had to achieve success in the stage. On this new level, high-end players can still choose to AFK if they like. But now, they can also choose to actually mess around and have fun! This is something I thought I'd never see in a DLC level, and I couldn't be happier. And in order for the widest range of setups and scenarios to actually work, yes, the mobs had to be made weaker than on something like Palantir or the Shards maps. People have been saying for ages that the DLC maps are only catering to the highest-end players, and in a way they were right. Trendy finally made something that changed this habit, offering a full-range appeal like the vanilla version of the game had, and they should be applauded for it.

As for those getting upset that lower-end players can now acquire credible quality weapons more easily: seriously?! This is a COOPERATIVE game, for crying out loud! How in the world does it hurt you if your teammates are able to hold their own better than they previously could?! It would be a totally different story if this was a PVP shooter or something, but it's not. The only things these weapons are helping to kill faster are the A.I. enemies. Having your teammates perform better means you perform better when playing with them.

Yes, it's great that you put in the time and effort to procure the original highest level-weapons yourselves. And if you genuinely enjoyed the difficulty involved with that, then no new changes to the game can take away the fun you experienced beforehand. The truest satisfaction would be the personal one, and that doesn't become affected by outside actions. However, I have a feeling this is more about measuring their metaphorical manhood and thinking that having the highest quality gear is a status symbol. It's not. You can either buy or be given gear in this game, so a lot of the people out there with great equipment may not have earned a single bit of it anyway. The time spent to earn stuff yourself had already been diminished from the get-go. This won't change that.

What about something that actually matters more than any kind of stats or records? You know: enjoying the game. This new stage brings that option back again, after so long, to a much wider range of people.

This map was obviously aimed at casual players trying to break into NM (or bypass maps as it were). Better gear is dropping from the sound of it and that's directly in response to players voicing their complaints about bad gear dropping. Let's be honest, the eternia maps are just a pain and great gear doesn't drop until the much later waves.

People have been looking for a better way to break into NM while playing casually and this is it. Enjoy it while you can because I'm sure that this map will be hit with the nerf bat sooner than later.

Again, they completely messed up what they suposedly are trying to achieve. It does not fix the underlying issue of bridging the gap. There is no progression anymore, now you do an easy map to get good gear to be able to do hard maps that give worse gear. How does that make any sense at all. The gap can still be bridged if the item quality is lowered. There is no reason to do any other map now.

As for time VS reward. It still takes just as long as palantir or sky for a chance at 4 ****ty items. Something does need to be done about drop rates and time and effort invested. This is not the right answer.

If you don't like it maybe you should make a map that caters to top end game players rather than every person that plays the game.
Trendy is a company who believe it or not will want to give their ENTIRE player base something. Just because people can't do every previous map on nightmare, why should they not be allowed to gain weapons easily that will allow them to take it on easier? People complain about the amount of farming in the game and then when things are too easy, COMPLAIN SOME MORE!

is there any reward for beating it on Survival? I made it to 20 and no pet.

You are missing the point. Their is no more progression. You now finish easy maps to get gear to do the harder maps which have worse gear. This is a cop out by trendy for a flawed drop system. I don't care that it is easy I understand that its to help players get into nightmare. Which means getting entry nightmare gear that can help beat the shards maps. Not get gear better than those maps maps that are harder.

I'm kind of enjoying how some of the posters here are assuming that the people who were complaining about the amount of farming they have to do are the exact same people who are complaining now.

is there any reward for beating it on Survival? I made it to 20 and no pet.

I am assuming just the Giraffe upon completion, I'm on 23 at the moment an no pet either.

Edit: Put the wrong quote <_