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Done with this. Game ruined. Ogres, Copters, Upset.


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This was a great game. Trendy did a awesome job. What did I expect though? I guess not much from a small developer, just had hopes up is all.

First............ Youtube how to set up videos LIE!!! Well, when the game was good I suppose they did work.

Games are suppose to be fun!!! Not this.

I really liked the Tower defense concept of this. My belief was that if I just planed perfectly, then It would work this time. Memorize my set up, know what to do.

Well, not having lots of time to play, I finally made it level 74!!! yea!!! Mythic!!

It's worthless............

Well, almost.

Tower defense is gone. It's now another lame FPS shooter. There are some of us older players that like to figure things out. Then plan. Now it's run around like a mad man, just hoping by luck things go your way.

MistyMire:
Well, I have a Huntress level 80, a weapon that does 7K a hit on Nightmare. Not great, but I don't have lots of time to play. Then I figure get my Apprentice up so I can set up defenses. Hunter can stop first wave with mines. Fine, but Ogres don't seem to notice the freaking Gas mines. (?????)

2n wave:


Set my Apprentice newly upgraded mystic (80,000,00) mana saved and spent in tower defense. To test her on first nightmare wave........ She smoked it.

Awesome!!!

Wave 2:

I bring my Hunter out after setting Apprentice defense. WTF!!! just noticed that with apprentice gone, the defenses towers now suck (Lost stats) .............. Why?? Playing solo this should not be, I earned that!!! worked hours for it!!! Multiplayer YES!!! Solo NO!!....... dumb....... Trendy is small, not smart yet... got it.. OK.

Still held up.............. two Goblin copters come in.............. ummmm. Knocked them down with Huntress.... The towers I set to hit them did nothing????????????? cept a few shots.

Now with dodging spiders, time to deal with things that might have gotten through.
Nice, Whole left side defense GONE!!! 4 purple Ogres running around. Each over 3mil HP

Now what to do??

I Kite them around while losing chunks of my defenses.

One goes down. One at half Health, and 2 healthy Happy Ogres.

I run backwards into the wall............ (SMACK!!!!) It's over............... Most of my defense destroyed.

Spire:


I am stupid!!! My thinking is that My New bought DLC (Worthless now) was designed to be harder. So I go to the Old school maps.... Myth drops not as good, but expected, got to start somewhere.

WAVE 2:

1 Goblin copter, 4 purple Ogres, 2 fat purple things that destroy defenses.

WTF!!!!! It's just wave two on survival............!!!!!! Just freaking wave 2!!!!!!

So.................

I can't play Barbarian because switching lowers my defenses and I get crushed.
I can't play Huntress to pick off and kite things around because of same thing.
I can't play my apprentice because she can't kill jack.
No need for 4 freaking 3mil Ogres at wave 2!!!!
Copters are OK, but not in Old school maps. Who can kill them? Defenses don't seem to do that well.

Waves should follow the pattern of lets say Insane on Ramparts. You get those 1mil Ogres coming, sometimes 2 of them, around wave 20 or so.

There is no more tower defense, the copters change that. No more planing. No more switching characters because the tower stats drop. (Or I just noticed it) No more fun, and I play games to have fun.

I would have expected to make it to at least wave 4 on Mistymire before seeing 2 ogres and possibly a copter. At least I would have felt I was achieving something. Wave 2??? and everything crushed???? First wave easy......................

The copters and genies (Fat blue blobs should not be around but on the maps they are for) Purple Ogres should be like 1 or 2....... If I wanted Ogre Crush, I would have selected the map. I want my tower defense game back!!!!!!!

STUPID!!!!

done with this ..................

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I bring my Hunter out after setting Apprentice defense. WTF!!! just noticed that with apprentice gone, the defenses towers now suck (Lost stats) .............. Why?? Playing solo this should not be, I earned that!!! worked hours for it!!! Multiplayer YES!!! Solo NO!!....... dumb....... Trendy is small, not smart yet... got it.. OK.


You don't lose stats. You just don't have the active builder bonus anymore. Your problem is only using a huntress and apprentice. Get a monk and squire. Squire > app. Also, EV and Summoner if you can afford it. Triple auras (Strength Drain, Ensnare, and Electric) are very helpful, and will clear out most of the trash mobs (goblins, archers, orcs, DEWs).

The copters and genies (Fat blue blobs should not be around but on the maps they are for) Purple Ogres should be like 1 or 2....... If I wanted Ogre Crush, I would have selected the map. I want my tower defense game back!!!!!!!

STUPID!!!!

done with this ..................


Oh quit your whining. Nightmare is more Tower Defense than anything. The Eternia mobs are on every map because that's what Nightmare is meant to do. They're on their own maps on insane and below, go for that if you want.

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At first I was coming by to suggest to wait for the next patch before rage quitting for copters.

Then saw the purple ogre reference.....

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Tower stats dont drop, they get buffed with active builder, you cant do old school maps and try misty?, wrong.
I recomend you to farm some insane hardcore challenges or survivals, you can get trans rewards from them.

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[QUOTE]Oh quit your whining. Nightmare is more Tower Defense than anything.[/QUOTE]

Try to follow. Player gets to nightmare, I did get my set of Mythic. I figure good enough for a few waves. I was hoping there is a way for defenses to hit those copters, and there is no good defense. It's a FPS now. You run around with a big enough gun to bring down the Ogres and copters. It's no longer keep your apprentice in with no fighting damage.

If you survive, then half you defenses are missing. I expect this around wave 4 or so, not the 2nd wave. It's bad programing, bad think, bad everything. It's like a bunch of 6th graders got together, saw the Youtube videos, and decided that we will show them now!!!! Muhahahahahahah...................

It's not fun............... Insane is to easy, my gun hits for 42K a shot on insane. My gun don't do much against 4 purple ogres as they destroy my base, providing I dodge the Goblin Copters shooting missiles.

When we first started trying insane it was hard. We made it a few rounds. It was fun though. FUN!!! is the key word.
Now you have to keep your defenses close, or else the spiders and blue blobs eat them up. No more looking at the map for strategic points. No more wondering what needs to be strengthened.

So, if you think it's smart and intelligent design to have the first wave be moderately challenging and the second wave to be a complete wash, then it's good your not into designing things fun for people to do.

Right now......................... I am thinking I have to farm for hours and hours to get my tower attack to at least 1300, and thinking I have to farm hours and hours to get a shield strength to around 1200 in hopes that might slow the Ogres up some.

JUST TO BEAT WAVE 2!!!!!!!!


No thank you. I have a family, the game was fun, and I just wish it did not end this way. I been playing games enough years to know when a development team goes stupid. They have taken brilliant and fun, and ruined it.

MistyMire for example had 140 DU points............... Same DU points now but added Blue blobs, Copters, and 4 Insanely tough Ogres at only WAVE 2.......... If you think that is smart? then to each his own.

I have better things to do..................... I was hoping Trendy was going to pull to the top ranks, but with unbalanced moves like this that should be so obvious, I doubt they will go far.

[QUOTE]You don't lose stats. You just don't have the active builder bonus anymore. Your problem is only using a huntress and apprentice. Get a monk and squire. Squire > app. Also, EV and Summoner if you can afford it. Triple auras (Strength Drain, Ensnare, and Electric) are very helpful, and will clear out most of the trash mobs (goblins, archers, orcs, DEWs).[/QUOTE]

Thank you for the Advice.............. Wave 2 though? Being crushed? When wave one is not super hard?

Mike.

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Not that I don't agree with you on some points but did you check to see what starting wave you started on?

When I first tried spires after the new enemies I wiped the first wave. Checked and I was started on wave 8.

You can check to see what wave you're starting on and start much lower.


Sent from my SGH-I897 using Tapatalk 2

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i totally agree with op here.
game is horrible broken. tried nm with my new level 1 barbarian today. figuring he was obviously ready with his 5 hero damage and my perfect building layout. BUT WAIT.. WHAT THE ****...... THE DUDE CANT EVEN BUILD STUFF. how the **** am i suppose to defend if he cant build towers .. IN A TOWER DEFENSE GAME?????.
trendy did a **** job a balancing the game. hero that can't build?!?!?!? SERIOUSLY?!?!
i cant even level up because i can't kill ANYTHING. how am i suppose to reach level 2 if I get 1 shotted by everything and get no exp?!?! Good job testing the game Trendy good job.

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i totally agree with op here.
game is horrible broken. tried nm with my new level 1 barbarian today. figuring he was obviously ready with his 5 hero damage and my perfect building layout. BUT WAIT.. WHAT THE ****...... THE DUDE CANT EVEN BUILD STUFF. how the **** am i suppose to defend if he cant build towers .. IN A TOWER DEFENSE GAME?????.
trendy did a **** job a balancing the game. hero that can't build?!?!?!? SERIOUSLY?!?!
i cant even level up because i can't kill ANYTHING. how am i suppose to reach level 2 if I get 1 shotted by everything and get no exp?!?! Good job testing the game Trendy good job.


LOL +1 internets

OP probably won't sense the sarcasm though.

Seriously, OP quit your whining. If you can't do wave 2, your stats are obviously too low. The game is not an FPS, it's still tower defense, but you can have a DPS character too. How is that a bad thing?
Have a cry, get better stats or get better at the game.

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Within the rant he is touching the essence of the problem though that copters and naturally other mobs have introduced. The only advice I can give to the OP is to do the 4 shards in order on insane first, so you can get used to the new mobs that will be dropped into nightmare. You will not be getting the uber gear, or maybe even many upgrades but at least you'll see the effect of the spiders, purple blobs (the djinn), sharken and the annoying copters.

Based on this you can then see that the only way to succeed on nightmare is now to have a level 74 version of every hero (well squire, monk, EV, summoner and hunter). At least to deal with everything but the copters. For the copters their isn't really a solution... they just mess up the fun balance way to much. It helps somewhat to run around as a chicken without a head hunting for all the copters with a pet with insane dmg, but in the end instead of fun it all revolves now around farming farming and yeah you guessed right farming.

They changed so much during shard 3 to make survival and the game in general not such a chore and with the introduction of copters, they have in 1 fell swoop completely abolished this. It is asinine and a shame. But it is a recurring error that they have been making one shardexpansion after another... they impliment a new mob... and have to instantly nerf it because they only think about the high end players... who are bored with their 4k stats to be able to finish these maps in their sleep.

This error is going to bite them in the arse on their next project since it doesn't seem like they have actually learned from their own mistakes. A donkey doesn't stumble over the same stone 3 times in a row... TE has done it for the fourth time now... when are they going to take the hint propperly?

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I do see both ends of the argument. My best suggestion to trendy would be to make the wave difficulty transition a tad bit easier. The 2nd wave always hits hard when you are still transitioning.

The transition into nightmare is difficult. my suggestion would be to try finding some online games where the host does the building. Mana farming on Magus Quarters is quite common. Try finding one of those matches, you will most likely find some upgrades and it earns better exp than glitter insane i think.

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Nightmare is supposed to be the Hardest difficulty in the game. It will have ALL enemies, which have been buffed in Strength, HP and Speed. There are also higher numbers of Harder mobs (Ogres, Spiders, Djinn etc...).
It is supposed to be hard. It it wasn't, then what would be the point in playing if you can just breeze through the whole game.

Also, your only playing with a Apprentice and Huntress........ ?..... If you want to play Nightmare Campaign, you need a Tower Squire, Tower Monk, Tower Apprentice and Tower Huntress, then you might also want a DPS class, preferably Monk. Then you need to get everyone of these to 74 and equipped with some half decent gear. The shards maps are also the Hardest maps in the game due to more Crystals, Bigger Maps, and Stronger enemies and bosses, and also more of the Harder Mobs.

Don't expect to be able to beat the hardest maps in the game so easily. You need all characters, half decent stats, and don't expect to be able to beat the Bosses on nightmare without a DPS. Some people with High stats 2k, still aren't able to beat the Shards Bosses, don't expect to do it with like 500 stats.

And about the Tower Defense becoming a FPS, no......no......no. You WILL NOT be able to beat any Nightmare map without Towers (Aside from 1 or 2 with 2k Stats). I don't see how you can even say about this. You said yourself that you can't handle Ogres and Djinn yourself, so you must need something to help....... but what can help you????........ Towers? Oh yes, that's what they're for.

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I agree, when I first tried Nm i was always 1 step away from ragequitting (Seriously, if i could loaded a nuke into my HDD...) but as many of the post said, I just went back and leveled up some other heros to balance where my class was failing (I was a squire)
Then I started farming Misty on Insane Survival. Sure I didnt get epic gear at drop 1, but after awhile i was getting better gear. Ut was a farm, obviously, but this is a TowerDefense Game...that in itself speaks repition of the genre. There is no super fast way
to get uber, and that IS the reason I like this game. Gotta work for your bread holmes.

P.S 34 year old gamer here and I still think of it as a tower defense game.

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You're not ready for nightmare. Please first play all the Shards maps on insane. Play Palantir. Play the Boss Rush challenge. Play Crystalline Dimension. They are not easy on insane. In fact, I think you'll die and have to challenge yourself to build better.

Since you'll encounter the copters on Sky City even if you only play insane, I'll tell you that you catch the copter in an ensnare aura, and then your towers will shoot them down. They are also being patched in the next update to not evade as well.

You never have to play nightmare if you don't want to. A lot of what you said is just wrong, but the part about not being able to ease into nightmare like you did with insane is very true. Nothing wrong with enjoying the new and challenging maps on insane and then putting the game down until the next map release.

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Good God stop whining and *****ing about Nightmare Mode. Its the hardest mode and along with the Eternia Shards DLC its the Creme De La Creme for complexity and over the top chaos. Most of the times I've been in Nightmare Mode it is in fact tower defense based when in combat, which is what the game's main concept really is to begin with.

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I say the problem is the loot quality drops. They suckkkkk. They keep increasing the difficulty and not increasing the loot quality.

-type R blood-

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While I do think that quitting the game is...not exactly the best solution over what seems to be an overreaction, I sympathize with the OP because I also went through a "**** ogrecopters/sharkens" phase. In fact, I technically am still in that phase since sharkens prevent me from finishing survival in some maps. I'm not going to flame the OP, but there are a few things I want to say.

1) Wave 2 of NM is actually often the hardest wave to me. If I didn't finish building my defenses (mana problems or timer), then wave 2 can be horrible. Note that wave 1 doesn't have ogres, so any crappy starting formation will do.

2) The jump in difficulty in this game is amazingly hard. As you've stated, from Hard -> Insane was difficult at first. When I first started the game, I played on Medium like most people, but when I replayed the second map (Foundries) on Hard at a low level, I found my defenses getting crushed by the ogre when that didn't happen on Medium. The Insane -> Nightmare jump is indeed the worst, but it's manageable, by:

3) Your first NM map was Mistymire? Why? I would've thought you would try for The Deeper Well first to transition to NM slowly, not jump into a Lost Eternia Shards NM map. Some easier campaign maps with good rewards for Nightmare are Magus Quarters, Ramparts, and Endless Spire.

4) I don't believe Dungeon Defenders is meant to be soloed...immediately. That is to say, it's way easier to try Nightmare as a group of 4-6, learn some builds, get some better equipment, then you try the solo challenge. I'm not sure why you're ignoring the multiplayer part of DunDef, but what I just described seemed like a logical way to go. And finally,

5) Because it is a multiplayer game, people will be there to help. If you decide to unquit, add me on Steam (KholdStare88) and I will gladly help you out, not by doing everything for you but give you tips and tricks for Nightmare.

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the game is fun and the copter ogres help. why?

because they make you have to re change all your builds.

idk about you but i think people would just get bored if they didnt make the game any harder aas alot of people now are getting to the stage were we can just kill every think in a few secs...

they have brought out ultimate gear witch has like x2 the stats now. what would be the point in it if there was nothink to fill the need for it.

if your struggling with nm that bad try playing insaine. all i am gona say once you learn the builds there easy. there are plenty of dd planner builds out there that work. also the amout of in game player effects the amout of copter ogres in game at one given time so you could consider how meany people you play with.

nm is not suposed to be for very one too jump into

some people say nm is stupid and impossible. not true the hole idea of the game mode is to be hard. why dose every one just want it to be so easy any one can do it.


sounds to me you are jumping in a F1 car, an you have only just passed your driving test.

START LOWER WORK YOUR WAY UP ur clealy not geared out enough for nm. ps dont use a hunter if your lacking dps usse a barb or a monk. even the mage can pull off some what nice dps now but i wouldnt recoment level mage as a 1st good dps

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Thank you everyone.................... Here is the deal.........

Yes I am still posting because this has been one of my most favorite games. I hope they hired a stupid person they need to fire and it will be all OK again.

1) I hit level 74 spent 22 some hours just farming first level MistyMire on Hardcore to get gear and mana.

2 Gun hits 7K on enemies. I just got my Apprentice to 74 (More hours and hours) Got her gear and spent 80,000,000 on pumping up her armor for tower damage. 1 Huntress for damage, 1 apprentice for tower.

3) Watched sever hours of Youtube set up defenses. I need to farm at this point. I beat wave one on hardcore by just stopping up the 4 Mob entrance points. I don't have the awesome stats I saw on Youtube, but they did not have copters, Ogres and blue fat tower stealing mobs. I have about 700 damage on my towers, about 500 health.

(I liked the game enough to spend all this time trying to figure the best defense to survive a wave where I get item drop from mobs to make money so I can plan to survive wave 3-4. Wife already concerned about me spending a few days farming just one level to get to this point.)

4) Trial run with Apprentice wave one....................... I stop the mobs cold with just tower defense and my new Mythic and many hours of mana farming. Awesome..................... time for wave 2................ I can now get item drops from mobs, and not just farm the 5 chest I save at wave one. Progress in getting better for the rest of the maps.

6) Reality check time..................... Wave 2, wiped out all the trash mobs, downed a copter, downed a ogre and 1/2. tried over and over and over............. Not possible. Even if I survive somehow on wave 2 by kiting Ogres around the map, my base is gone. Did this on Spire........... same 4 Ogres jump out wave 2, same with MistyMire. Nothing I can do. I can't get item drops from mobs.

7) I realize that unlike everyone else that had an opportunity to play wave 2 without the copters, Blue blobs, and 4 Ogre rush to get the mana, I can't. I came to late for Nightmare level. Same DU as before but added impossible mobs on top of it.

8) Only way now is to spend a few weeks just playing one level over and over and over until I get enough mana to survive the Ogre rush. I need tower health at 1400 I figure.... where the heck I get that armor? Where the heck I get the mana for that? Unlike a whole lot of folks, I came to late for Nightmare.

It's not fun now. I am at a point I need mana for the better armor, and only way to get it is to play Mistymire over and over and over and over on the first wave just collecting chest.

SCREW THAT!!!! Trendy ruined a great game for those just getting to Nightmare.

[QUOTE]idk about you but i think people would just get bored if they didnt make the game any harder aas alot of people now are getting to the stage were we can just kill every think in a few secs...

they have brought out ultimate gear witch has like x2 the stats now. what would be the point in it if there was nothink to fill the need for it.[/QUOTE]

You have to change your tower build???????????????????????????????????????????

At least you got a chance to build up to have a tower build... At least you got the chance to get the mana to have a lay out, to have a plan.

I cam to late. There is no tower defense build I can do that will survive the copters, Ogres, and blue blobs. I did not get the chance to farm and get strong. The best mana is beating MistyMire over and over on the first wave. I can just collect the chest, and not survive the item drops from wave 2. You got the chance. I don't mind things getting changed up, and new strategy's needing to be in place. A wave 2 crush though for those getting to Nightmare is stupid. The rest of you got the chance to survive, I came to late.

Reality is that I need 500,000,000 more mana just in hopes a blockade is not like paper to just those 4 mobs. I have nothing that will slow down the Ogres rush. It's not fun now. I don't play games to be impossibly frustrated. Careful planing is out the window, it's a FPS now kiting Ogres around the map.

Mike.

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you don't use monk auras AT ALL and complain about ogres destroying your defense and blame the game for it. Genius.
you say "older people like to figure things out" yet you don't make the slightes attempt in doing so whatsoever.
clearly the games and developers fault

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Mike,

The trouble is that you're approaching a problem where you need a hammer, socket set, adjustable wrench, and pliers with just a hammer.

Nightmare now requires a full set of builders. It makes your life easier if you supplement with a DLC character such as the Series Ev or Summoner (or both) but you can still enjoy the game and progress in Nightmare with the original cast of characters.

I hear your frustration, and I agree with you on some points, but when you approach a problem improperly then perhaps you should consider gearing up properly first before decrying that everything is unfair and you can't do it.

You need to level a tower squire, monk, and huntress.

The tri-aura stack of the monk (ensnare, lightning, strength drain) is just about required in Nightmare. When within a good strength drain, ogres hit for much less damage and, as with all enemies, are stripped of any elemental resistances. That elemental stripping of the drain means that all the enemies will be affected by the ensnare and lightning auras. As an Apprentice, your most powerful bread and butter tower is your fireball, and it needs to be under a drain aura for maximum effectiveness.

The gas, proximity mines, and inferno traps are the best assets of a tower huntress, in that order. Gas traps, when activated, keep the djinn from being able to desummon your towers. They also can help keep sharken from rushing too. A proxy trap overlapping a gas can keep firing off charges thinning out a crowd that is building up coughing in front of your gas trap. An inferno trap under a str drain aura...well...it just works very well if you have the stats and du for it.

The tower Squire you need for harps, and if you can spare the du, bowling balls. A harpoon is full piercing, very much needed when you have an ogre train coming down a lane. Bowling balls are great in the right areas. A properly placed bowling ball tower can keep a lane free of trash mobs without the need for too much assistance (aside from spider and DEW protection).

You need to put more tools in your toolbag, and you'll have a better experience. A full set of builders has always been recommended even at the debut of the game, but you could brute force it and get by without. You can't do that in Nightmare. You either come properly equipped to start with and slowly progress, or come improperly equipped, get slaughtered out of the gate, and come away heavily frustrated and wanting to rage quit.



Sent from my SGH-I897 using Tapatalk 2

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The post above by DinJoh. This is some great advice that you should follow. He has explained everything that is needed for Nightmare and explained what each characters towers are there for.
Follow the advice of getting a Tower Squire, Tower Monk and Tower Huntress. Level them to 74. Get them some gear. Then you might be able to progress further into the game.

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The problem that the original poster is having is that he is biting off more than he can chew, and he is not fully utilizing all four original heroes and thier towers.

I jumped into nightmare quite late myself. By the time I started nightmare, the copters were already implemented. However, I knew that at the minimum, I had to use towers from all four classes to combat the various types of enemies in nightmare. Here are some things I have learned.

1. Get all four original heroes to level 74, and have starter mythical equipment for all of them.
2. Your primary DPS hero needs to have good resistance all around.
3. Do not underestimate gas traps in the beginning. Those have bought me precious time during a wave.
4. Practice nightmare on Deeper Well, Foundries and Forges, Magus Quarters, and Alchemical Laboratory.
5. Always take spiders into consideration while building towers. Those will mess you up.

I got my face smashed in a handful of times when starting on nightmare, but I improved significantly as time went on. For the record, I still do not have uber stats on any of my characters, and I have finished the original campaign on nightmare hardcore.

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4. Practice nightmare on Deeper Well, Foundries and Forges, Magus Quarters, and Alchemical Laboratory.


Oh....Deeper Well..... That is one of the worse maps to try to break into Nightmare on due to only having 160 starting mana and it being so damn small. Many thanks to the senior player who showed me the great usefulness of using a genie and kiting the wave 1 ogre for both mana to upgrade a starting stack of auras, and also for having enough mana to build other defenses during the wave 2 build period before even bigger hell broke lose.

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[QUOTE]you don't use monk auras AT ALL and complain about ogres destroying your defense and blame the game for it. Genius.
you say "older people like to figure things out" yet you don't make the slightes attempt in doing so whatsoever.
clearly the games and developers fault [/QUOTE]

[QUOTE]The problem that the original poster is having is that he is biting off more than he can chew, and he is not fully utilizing all four original heroes and thier towers.[/QUOTE]

Thank you everyone for the input. I am now building a MONK. level 65 in less than a hour just having him hang around wave one Nightmare on MistyMire. (Just run speed, spiders are evil.)

Your not ready for Nightmare............????


Everyone was ready for nightmare before the Ogre rush. I got there late. I missed out.

All my normal maps are beaten on hardcore insane. I had help on two. The last dragon one, and one someone was playing with me on.

I beat MistyMire on Insane by myself... Nothing survives the gas traps and mines except the Ogres which go down quick. The boss was a pain in the butt though, but fun.

I can survive to wave 30 myself on ramparts, Hardcore, Insane..... 1.4-2.0 Million a long freaking wave of 2K of enemies. Crap gear. Hours spent to get nothing, I can't do much better just 8 min on Nighmare/Hardcore Mistymire wave one.
(The Pet is nice, but needs to sell for 30mil to be worth it.

Characters:

Huntress... Level 80...... Traps can wipe everything out on Nightmare MistyMire/ Spire........ except Ogres which ignore the gas traps and Darkness is broken as the Ogre can walk through it and still not be effected by gas traps. (Stupid!!!)

Ballistic something gun........ 44K a shot on normal. 7K a shot on Nightmare. Weak, I know, but one hits everything on insane except Ogres.

Flamewave......... Insane damage, eats up Ogres on Nightmare, but can't reach the freaking Goblin copters. I can only be at one place at a time.
Traps kill the trash on wave 2 just Ogres left and a copter or two.

My Problem Once again...........................

I have just leveled my apprentice to level 74. I pumped her tower damage up to about 700 on her set of Mythic. It's not enough to kill Ogres yet. Kills everything else on first wave.
It's 2-3 million a single point upgrade now.
It will be like that for the rest of my characters I am trying to level.

Mana:

Level+Mana= Time spent.
No other insane map or Nightmare map (I can beat) gives the Mana or XP that wave one of MistyMire gives. I save 5 of the chest for next re spawn. There is no point in doing the other maps. ZERO!!!!!! Hunter traps kill everything.

DLC Insane..........

Outside of MistyMire.................. I can't be everywhere at once. Defenses not strong enough to hold up. The reward and time Ratio is horrible.

Some of you don't understand Time concepts and Math concepts............ It's not about not being ready for Nightmare. I need Mana to upgrade defense armor. My guns alone are around 200 Million each and it took 2 weeks to do that. Now think about 4 more pieces of armor. THINK!!!!......................

I need the Nightmare mob drops............ but I need more than 2-8 Million per wave to even put a dent in upgrades. Insane won't do that. It's stupid butt thinking that puts 4 Purple Ogres in at once and stops all that. I can't kill them all at once and even IF I did, it's restart time because nothing is left (Came close a few times)

Online Help:
Almost every night I try to Join a Nightmare group..... Kicked as soon as I join.......... There is not a large selection of them.

On insane I get asked to leave because level and damage is to high.............. No point in doing them as solo on Nightmare wave one brings better XP Reward anyway.

I started my own server........... many times. Just one time I had a group of good guys. Mostly get peeps that run around grabbing all the gear which does not help my Mana-Time Ratio. I don't know the peeps, not defense coordination, Only a few times I get some that can kill one of the Ogres themselves. Not worth it for time. Wave one of MistyMire still the best Mana+Time ratio.

Spiders:
Last a few seconds with my flamewave. Not a issue........... The gun takes a bit longer, and I need to be more accurate, but hard to do dodging missiles from above.

Resistance:
Sucks......... Only 3K health. I normally move around and don't die though. I just can't kill all 4 Ogres fast enough wave 2.

Bottom Line...................... A wave 2 crush on nightmare, when wave one is super easy is stupid no matter how you look at it.

I need the trash dropped weapons for Mana on at least a wave or two.......... Like the Youtube video's and like most of you got before the patch.

Mike.

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