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Really?
Jesus, people are kick happy.


Sorry, but there's no way I'm risking it. We have a perfect build that will last us through all the waves and some idiot comes in, pushing things in the middle of combat. Of course, it's likely no other players have a jester out to counter-act that push, and if I kick then, it still doesn't matter. We may not be able to re-summon it (builder not out) or get it back to 3 stars in time. It's basically a free run to the crystal for the enemies.

I never kick people. I try to help everyone I can (writing guides, etc...). If anything, I'll carry random newbs through a map for EXP or items. But nothing would frustrate me more than spending 2 hours reaching the final wave and some idiot coming in and making my time wasteful.

I am loving what's being shown so far for the jester class and I can already think of many situations where she would be useful. I would gladly use her among friends, but all random jesters are automatically suspicious.

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Sorry, but there's no way I'm risking it. We have a perfect build that will last us through all the waves and some idiot comes in, pushing things in the middle of combat. Of course, it's likely no other players have a jester out to counter-act that push, and if I kick then, it still doesn't matter. We may not be able to re-summon it (builder not out) or get it back to 3 stars in time. It's basically a free run to the crystal for the enemies.

I never kick people. I try to help everyone I can (writing guides, etc...). If anything, I'll carry random newbs through a map for EXP or items. But nothing would frustrate me more than spending 2 hours reaching the final wave and some idiot coming in and making my time wasteful.


But tbh... people can also join in SELL youre defense and REBUILD it where they want so just because jester can move it doesnt mean it will be used(sure some ppl will do it)

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Why didn't they just use Jester tower slots like this:

Apprentice random gift
Huntress random gift
Squire random gift
Monk random gift
Random hero gift (much stronger than the other versions but completly random)

^This makes alot more sense in my opinion

I see no use for this hero other than dps... it's too risky to use presents like the way they are now honestly, this hero is meant for maps with no crystals on it, mostly monster fests im guessing with all this randomness. Either that or its totally meant to be used for lower lvl players, because i don't see this going right on a nightmare run since people usually use up all the DU.


My opinion about the Jester:
tower-wise im dissapointed big time from what i saw...
dps-wise i still have to find out but i hope it's a good one

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It seems like people are looking at the Jester as more of a hindrance than a helper and thats what its supposed to be the biggest helper in the game by being able to move any defense anywhere and in case you missed the livestream that also means moving two of the same aura/trap in the same spot. Quite frankly that to me sounds like Jester could be used to redesign the way people do their typical setups and come up with new idea that use less DU so Jester can use their presents for random defenses plus DPS since it seems like this class is meant to be hybrid if anything.

The Less DU comes from putting the towers places others classes cant do like inside other towers (I think not 100% yet but will definitely be testing that ability) and at that point you can use less DU for buff beams and such but its just an idea and not tested yet. Personally I will be going through campaign and purely using a team of Jesters just to try and test every possible defense tactic with presents and moving defenses and then make my judgement on the class' usefulness.

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It seems like people are looking at the Jester as more of a hindrance than a helper and thats what its supposed to be the biggest helper in the game by being able to move any defense anywhere and in case you missed the livestream that also means moving two of the same aura/trap in the same spot. Quite frankly that to me sounds like Jester could be used to redesign the way people do their typical setups and come up with new idea that use less DU so Jester can use their presents for random defenses plus DPS since it seems like this class is meant to be hybrid if anything.

The Less DU comes from putting the towers places others classes cant do like inside other towers (I think not 100% yet but will definitely be testing that ability) and at that point you can use less DU for buff beams and such but its just an idea and not tested yet. Personally I will be going through campaign and purely using a team of Jesters just to try and test every possible defense tactic with presents and moving defenses and then make my judgement on the class' usefulness.


A quick glance at the code suggests that only Electric and Heal auras stack if placed on top of each other.In my experience, Electric Aura's never been too useful post-Insane because of how badly it scales into NM.

As for jester towers potentially being able to fit closer together than regular towers, it's entirely possible that the code checks if whatever it's spawning will fit.

One of the first things I'm gonna do when jester comes out is read up on her abilities within DDDK and see if I can grab the probabilities of stuff happening.

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Electric Aura's never been too useful post-Insane because of how badly it scales into NM.


Whaaaat? Maybe before they buffed it months ago, like 4 months ago? Electric aura is very good in NM and has been for quite some time :)

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I do recall from the stream asking is its possible to make auras stack using presents. the answer was something like "Hmmmmmmm, I don't knoooowwww. Maybe they Caaaaaan"

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Well this thread suddenly exploded with attention. I can't say I expected the number of responses but all in all I think it came out rather well. Some new information and strategies have been suggested for the Jester and that's what I really wanted.

I generally said what I wanted to say in the OP, but after watching the Jester preview I'm both more excited and more disappointed and wanted to address it.

The bad:

Right off the bat, there weren't any surprise abilities. Indeed her last two tower slots are simply empty.

Pausing the preview vid you could see that presents show their odds of dropping the various possibilities. Nearly 50% was a tower, okay fine, but the chance of a mob was nearly 10%. Not huge but I'd be very concerned about putting a present near my crystals. Combining their odds, there's also more than a 40% chance that each present will be either loot or mana. That's not gonna help at all towards winning the stage.

In my OP, I mentioned the possibility that you could place presents over and over til you get exactly what you want. The preview (along with an observant responder earlier in the thread, I'm sorry I can't recall your name offhand) made it clear presents can't spawn at all til the combat phase. While I'm glad the Jester can't be 'abused' with a lot of Build Mode patience, this makes her inconsistency even more dangerous. To use her towers you have to put up presents in the area you want to defend and have no idea what will be defending til the mobs are already coming. Plus 1/10 of your own presents will be a surprise enemy right at your door, and 4/10 will be mana or loot that doesn't fight mobs at all.

All together that means only 1/2 your presents will even be something able to do damage. And who knows what direction they'll aim. A secondary issue with the Jester appears that to effectively use her presents, she must stay active to move/aim them.

Quick aside, I understand they didn't want a long, drawn out stage to showcase the jester but I think the difficulties below NM are flat out misleading for judging a character's strengths. I'll freely admit watching the gameplay was fun, the randomness adding a unique twist. However those same runs done on NM would probably look a lot less fun when they were all simply dying as the random towers facing random directions would, at best, be highly inefficient or, at worst, be slaughtered.

The good:

As expected, the ability to move towers was awesome. I wish they retained their upgrades, but still worth it. Indeed, the stacking of traps/auras might be a key advantage for Jesters. I'm already picturing using 2 or 3 stacked proxies with a buff beam on each approach. I'm not sure if it was shown as possible to also stack towers but that could mean a lot of synergy with the buff beam as a whole.

Wheel of Fortuna is a pleasant surprise. Assuming no nerfs to its functionality, it appears possible to use it well each and every time at the cost of your attention on the slots. Fair trade if you ask me.

It sounds like the Jester will have decent DPS too. While she doesn't reach the pure high numbers of the monk, her ability to use Huntress weapons means her ranged DPS is probably better and more accurate. As at least one person mentioned earlier, she's definitely shaping up to be a hybrid. I do a lot of solo so she probably won't be my active toon, but in groups having a Jester during combat could definitely be worth it.

Conclusion:

As I typed this all out I realized that she has clear good things and clear bad things. Isn't that the definition of a successful class? In all honesty I'd still prefer something all new, but such is life. The Jester will add to the mix of possibilities without replacing any of the previous ones.

I'll take that as a win for everyone.

P.S. Anyone know what caused the DU to go over the limit on Boss Rush? The in-vid explanation didn't clear it up for me.

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The DU limit is due to jesters presents, when they open and defenses do spawn that can spawn anything that costs DU with the fact that it can also go up and over the maximum DU since the player isnt actually summoning it but the game is.

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Your post is a bit confusing Dark. Ima take that as, it has the chance to summon more than 1 defense per box.


i think what he meant was, the presents DU are very low and must fix the DU limit. Once they open, if a tower spawns, the DU for that tower now fills in

EX: If you currently have 48/50 DU you can summon a 2 DU present, making the DU 50/50. As soon as the present opens the DU for that present is lost, back down to 48/50, but lets say a harpoon spawned. A harpoon is 6 DU so the DU is now at 54/50. If it was just mana or loots it would stay at 48/50.

At least, this is how I think it is

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I see. But they were talking about on the preview that if a 2 du box spawns a magic blockade (1du), then that magic blockade now cost 2 du instead of one. I remember that much.

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Yes towers can definately spawn for less du than they usually are. I myself am not 100% sure how this works either. We'll find out soon enough :D

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While I appreciate the attempts to explain the extra DU, I still don't understand. I read a few possibilities there.

1) The presents costs less DU, but once it becomes a real tower then its full, normal DU cost is taken from the pool. If this is the case it even further limits the Jester's towers. It would mean to take advantage of the lower DU, you have to get all the right towers from the right presents within very few waves, if not a single ultra lucky wave.

2) The DU counter is simply behind the times and not working as intended. Its counting full DU's of spawned towers instead of the presents' original lower DU cost.

3) As Bluekitsune suggested, more than one tower can pop out of a single present.

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It's possible that one reward from the Wheel of Fortune or presents could be a temporary boost to the amount of DU available. Presumably the game does nothing to remove defenses if DU is above the limit somehow.

So you'd temporarily have 5 extra DU to play with; place a new tower to use it, and then the temporary DU extension disappears, but the extra tower remains.

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Wow, a 30k hp ogre on deeper wells medium while I do like 10 damage xD. Well, it seems to die if you wait long enough for the despawn but wiped the next wave because it attacked crystal and nobody could stop it.

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