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NMHC Sky City Mix-Mode Survival (Duo Summoners)


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Note: Any question asked that was answered by reading the description WILL BE IGNORED. READ!

Shout out to Gamblor's Talay build for giving me this idea.

(Work in Progress)

Hello. I was tinkering about with a build that can be done with only my two summoners out (I think it may work better solo because you get less copter ogres as it goes from 20 to 40 when you add the second person).

Now, if you're looking for a build where you don't have to do anything, or have no heroes in combat, or can go afk to get pizza and soda, look elsewhere. This build takes work, but does not require any hero in combat to kill Ogres. What it does require is a hero in combat to draw Dark Elf Warriors to their position (pets are fine to kill them as long as you have good pets). I was able to complete Survival with this build, only having to rebuild on wave 29 and 30 due to poorly placed reflectors (there was an invisible gap)

My stats:
EV Beam Builder : I stole my Adept's gear
Health - 2346
Damage - 3677
Range - 2184
Rate - 3720

Initiate:
Health - 2136
Damage - 3650
Range - 2019
Rate - 2816

Huntress:
Health - 2254
Damage - 3479
Range - 2057
Rate - 2605

Summoner (builder):
Health - 2837
Damage - 3944
Range - 2111
Rate - 3288 (I don't care)

Summoner (hero):
Health - 2250
Damage - 2814
Cast rate - 1431
Flash Heal - 1355
Seahorse 1: 22103 base
Seahorse 2: 20028 base
Genie (for upgrading): 26398 base
Physical 90
Fire 90
Poison 90
Lightning 70

Pros:
Very stable when set up until very late waves.
Self healing walls
Nothing dangerous reaches the crystal
No worries about copter ogres hitting the towers

Cons: Takes a lot of mana to set up and even more to upgrade
Slow Build (long wave time)
Needs to start early. Minions are worthless in this manner without upgrades. Feel free to start wherever, but it begins to fail pretty fast if the minions and buff beams are not 3 stars by wave 20.
Overly Positioning sensitive.


Without Further Ado,
http://ddplanner.com/?l=9303-9305,mr-darks-dare#
Page 1 has the compacted View, page 2 has the expanded view.

Questions?
1) I can't read that.
That's not a question. There are multiple pages so you can see what's everywhere. Go to page 2.

2) WTF, where are the towers?
I didn't use any. I found I didn't need them. The only thing that reaches the crystal are copter ogres and copter ogres don't do damage to crystals.

3) Why no walls?
I was lazy and I didn't want to plan for Sharken.

4) You're stupid.
Again, that's not a question. Thank you for using You're instead of your.

5) How the hell does this work? Won't the ogres just go for the crystal?
Surprisingly no. The Ogres will get distracted by the minion walls provided they are placed correctly. Minions need to be placed so that if a ogre goes as close as possible he won't hit the crystal, but at the same time won't hop over it using a jump pad.

6) How do you kill the ogres?
Proton beams do a surprising amount of damage. If placed correctly, you can aim for the most probable landing spot, and ogres, even with 60m+ hp will melt in short order. For everyone else, just wait them out. The traps do a lot of passive damage to the ones that don't line up on the proton beams.

7) Why?
Why you ask? I just wanted to be able to complete it without using a high dps hero or the flavor of the month (monk). For reference, I have not played a monk during survival since Shortly before the summoner was released, and I'll be damned if a new map is going to make me change that.

8) The what ogres?
I'm bored. I saw hats on the Ogres and immediately thought Team Fortress 2. I imagine the ogres with hats looking down on the hatless ogres as free to play.

9) What about wyverns?
Since we left Aquanos and the Goldfish are gone, the Wyverns aren't really a problem. The aura stack can handle them (in addition to the proxies going off)

Also, I was aiming for something that could be completely afked. It still needs some (alot of) work, as it is far from it, but I think with some work it can be completely afked. Take that Trendy!

Detailed Explanation
General
Until later waves when the ogres gain more health, the gas traps need to be manually set off during waves to prevent desummons. Around wave 20 the ogres generally have enough hp to constantly set off the traps and therefore prevent any chance the Djinn have to desummon. This is also why I keep the second summoner at the north crystal.

The first summoner needs to spend as little time in overlord mode as possible until the Copter rush comes. I don't think it truly matters which crystal you stand at (I just picked NorthEast because I felt it saw the least traffic so could handle the extra DEW traffic). The reason is that his presence on the battlefield draws the Dark Elf Warriors to Him, and away from the minions. The DEWs do more damage to the minions than the ogres, not because they physically hit harder (they might, I dunno), but because their faster attacks are more prone to interrupting the mages. I had two good seahorses on my summoner, but whatever you have out, you need to handle the DEWs.

I am not saying you can never go into Overlord Mode, I am just saying, Limit your time to desperate repairs and flash heals until the Copter rush (usually about 300 to 400 mobs left in the wave). ALWAYS WATCH FOR NON MOVING COPTERS. Chances are if a copter is not moving and not taking damage, it is shooting at your minions. Check those minions to make sure they are not taking a beating. If they are, the reflectors are bad (or your stats are a bit too low to kill the ogres fast enough that the copters moved in and are above your reflectors). If a goblin copter is just chilling there out of the range of minions, (especially in the north west) just fly out (or get close to it if you can and aren't on a summoner) and come back and they will move in closer and stop their shelling and usually die as a result.

Finally, Reflector placement is important. If placed wrong, there will be invisible gaps in the Reflector beams, which will allow missiles in. If unnoticed, they can decimate a minion line, as the attack originated from outside a strength drain aura, it will not be reduced. So whatever gets hit takes full damage. This important. If a minion is about to die and you cannot save it, MOVE IT OFF THE BUFF BEAM. It will die, but it won't take the beam with it, which will most likely kill every other minion.

Proton Beams
These are your Ogre killers mostly. Well for the ogres that stand on them (usually the regular ogres). They do a respectable amount of damage. To get them to work at 2 DU though, you need to place them so they are barely touching the side of the buff beam, and the minions on the other side of the beam. Otherwise, the ogres will stand out of the range of the proton beam.

North
With the north Crystal, the Reflector Beam in the Northwest takes an extreme beating. It needs to be watched. If you have a second summoner out, I leave her there to watch that crystal along with that minion wall. The other on the other side can be mostly ignored (once upgraded) unless you see some copters lurking there. See the pictures at the end of this post for the Spacings.

East
Despite the gap, no "ftp" ogres got behind the minions (and therefore nothing was ever a threat to the crystal. Only Tf2 ogres got there. The gaps are there to prevent Desummons through the wall. The things need to be far enough away that the djinn will go around the wall to try and desummon, and get stuck in the gas trap as a result. Be wary as sometimes the Copter Rush will come to this crystal instead of the south crystal on mix mode.

South
Ahh south. This crystal is the worst of them all end of the wave. If the reflectors are placed wrong, golden copters can obliterate the minion wall, which is very annoying to replace, and does not function well at all without upgrades. Again, The proton beams are placed only for ftp ogres. The tf2 ogres cannot damage the crystal, so I don't particularly care if it takes longer for them to die.

Finally, Pictures. Note some of the Reflectors are positioned poorly in this picture, as it was still my first run.

South (West side is bad, there's an invisible gap. Split up the beams or don't overlap the corners as I did)




North




East




Enjoy.

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I really like the idea. Gotta give it a try.
My stats are way lower, I'll edit, when I got results.

1. Question.
Did you place traps without gear?

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Oh yeah, I placed some without Gear, because I wanted them closer to the core. Proxies mostly and the southern inferno. Still modifying it (it would so help if Ethereals were useful), but yeah, the proxies are for ogre rushes, not for trash.

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yeah 4k summoner atk is pretty high ... How many upgrades would you say it would take to keep your minions alive until wave 20? 2-3 chevrons? That might be ok with less stats. Now to get around to making a dps summoner.

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It would depend on your stats, but pre 20, a couple of levels was fine for me, but I did the upgrading with only 1 summoner out (so there was no copter rush). Once everything was upgraded, I brought the second one out.

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i tired your build, very nice idea... but i got crashed at wave 23 because in the north an ogre crossed the left minons line and hit them from back... but that ogre's swing destoried my crystal. i will try next time to build the line forward

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Yeah, that happens. My first two runs of Sky city I actually was moving the stuff around each wave to figure out the best spots to place things. My first run ended on wave 26 because of a gap in the south that one ogre went from the west to the east side and hit the northmost minion, which splashed onto the crystal, which is why the minion wave south is shoved up so far.

With that said, this build is really OCD about placing things. I only had one ogre hop over the minion wave where I had it placed. It scared the hell out of me but luckily the other side was clear so he walked to that side and started hitting the minions, trying to find a way to resolve that, but I didn't want to delay in posting the build.

The Build also works on non mixed, I just modified it a bit for Mix. I added the extra trap damage since I noticed a lot of copter ogres would end up at odd angles compared to the proton beams, and so they would clog the minion's attention long enough for the copters to get over the buff beams and rain fiery death down.

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Hi Theevilmrdark

Glad you could use elements of my build here. I'm only now starting sky city survival and I loosely copied elements of your build, you've saved me alot of work. Successful so far. You think along the same lines I intended to build along (no walls, proton beams)!

One idea I've had with Talay (but not posted yet) is having a tower cluster at the defense point you physically stand at. This is useful if you need more DPS (lower stats for example) and you can easily flash heal through damage at that one point. Its the only point you then need to watch closely (except to regenerate auras) Meanwhile you move the minions you had at that point to other defense points. I see you can do mix-mode of this with no problem, but others with lower stats might need the dps boost.

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Thanks for showing your interest, Gamblor. My goal here was to try and get it afkable. I still have a lot of refining to do. One of my ideas involves dropping 7 arches for 4 mages so I can have extra healing at each crystal but that would require even more OCD spacing issues and in turn leave some sides more exposed to copters as the archers can sometimes hit the copters when the clogs are gone.

Also, I am trying to avoid towers that I know will take a lot of Ogre/DEW damage. In addition, the lack of towers allows me to be a bit more offensive with the gas traps, since Djinn can only desummon in a few places, which are covered by gas traps, so they never got a desummon off.

Feel free to suggest any modifications, though I will be unable to try them out for a few days. If the feedback is good on this, I may post my physical tower less aquanos build. Though ideally it is 100% afk, you still have to stand in a certain spot to help the build out, depending on stats.

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I started on 9. While there isn't enough mana to build everything, with enough stats you only need a couple of minions at each spot, then can gather up the rest during the wave.

I honestly wasn't going for quick farming with this build, I just wanted something very stable.

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Greets

I got to round 25 non-mix two nights ago with your build only slightly modified, I had to close the game down to sleep. But at that point I lost half of my minions at south in round 24 - that point gets stormed hard.

Last night I tinkered heavily with your build, starting at late wave, seeing what changes work. I lost after a few rounds mostly because I was too intoxicated at that stage to continue.

Here are things I tried that worked:
- At east you can replace the two buff beams with one 6 DU beam in the centre (maybe 5 DU, haven't tried 5 though yet). Its far enough away from the crystal at that spawn not to be harmful, and besides saving DU, it forces ogres to compact up more, so you need fewer proton beams overall. I had no trouble at east with only one buff beam the whole game.

- At north and south I got rid of the infernos. Hate their blinding effect, plus they sometimes don't trigger I am guessing due to the float pathing of monsters. Instead I replace the one lightning aura with two side-by-side. Similiar to what I do for Talay. As far split apart on the sides as possible, while still covering minions on both sides. This actually works really well, besides that it gives more coverage and hits incoming monsters further out on some pathways, it also can stretch over the air to hit goblin copters that normally sit there pot-shotting your reflect walls. I never saw a reflect wall die before sky city, but one at north did due to rocket fire (they do take slight damage from the rockets)

- I bulked my minions on north and south defense, and only had 2 mages, 4 archers at centre - I had 5 fireball towers there with DU I scavanged getting rid of inferno traps, double buff beam DU saving, prox traps and I think a few other things. The fireball towers BLITZED anything that stepped centre, however one of them would get pushed by sharkens every round. Not a game-ender like a wall push can be in a traditional build, but none-the-less annoying. I'm not really in favor of using towers, and its probably unnecessary in sky city if your using minions, but it might help someone with low stats. I feel towers might work better at north and south than east like I did, because sharkens have to path through the floats at north and south, not giving them a distance to charge. I'll probably return to minion-only setup.

Here are the things I plan to try. Unsure if they will work.
- Use double slow auras overlapping the double LT auras I mention above to slow incoming copters. My hope being they die to LT aura + minion fire before they can drop their ogre cargo, which should fall into space and die. Copters might have too much HP for this though, have to test it.

- If I use towers again I might experiment with magic missile towers. Why? Because of the goblin copter flares, which probably are less effective against a low-damage, high fire rate tower like a MM, rather than a high-damage, low fire rate tower like a harpoon (with fireball being somewhere between). Would probably even experiment with the MM being angled to ignore the path entrances, only aiming out over the airspace over the double slow aura, double LT aura in the hope of downing the copters before they drop their ogres.

Most of these ideas are probably unnecessary for your build, but might help those with lower stats who need to adjust.

Oh one other idea I plan to try. At north and south you have your buff beam and minion setup in such a way that the moment an ogre comes off the float paths, they are on the proton beams, on the edge between your minions and empty space.

The problem with this I noticed is the ogres from the copters tend to get dropped further along, then attack your minion lines from the other side, where there are no proton beams.

I want to experiment and see if I place the beam and minions FLUSH against the edge, right on empty space as much as possible, then angle the proton beams the OTHER direction. My theory is that the normal ogres pathing off the float paths MUST land on solid ground before they can swing - or even if not, may miss their swing as the float path bobs them up again - anyway, they will land on top of the minions (and end of the proton beams touching the buff beam), or move/walk/float over and attack from the rear. The goblin copter ogres have no choice but must attack the rear, or either side of your minions. They cannot attack the front which abutts the empty space as there is nowhere to stand there. This would reduce the exposed sides of the minion setup, much like fighting with your back to a wall. But I don't know if this will work, but if it does it will make the defense more effective.

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