Jump to content

Chopper threat level


Recommended Posts

The reduction in targetting priority seems to have gone slightly too far. Towers/minions now consistently ignore them until they are almost right overhead (which results in the tower just completely ignoring them). Personally I dont understand why they need such effective flares, but with how it was initially my towers had a chance of shooting them down before they can get over walls. Now it would seem its almost a certainty that they will make it into my soft underbelly :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It would be nice if ensnared choppers had higher priority because the towers can shoot them down. You could then make more ensnares if you wanted to shoot down the choppers earlier. I assume the original design was to have them targetable or else they could have just made them untargetable in the first place and saved themselves the trouble of creating flares.

Here's a novel idea: remove unsummon from djinn and buff the copters (with ensnare priority targeting). Then people will have to try to balance building things across the whole map instead of building every map the same way - massing the auras, towers, and minions on a buff beam at each crystal. It's pointless to punish existing builds if there is no better alternative - it's about time Trendy starts rewarding alternative build strategies and then maybe they wouldn't need to nerf their mobs to oblivion. Fixing/buffing the currently unused towers is a great place to start for this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I wouldn't mind if they took away the ability for copters to be buffed. Usually those are a major threat the moment they happen (as they'll almost always reach their destination to unload the ogre, not to mention the huge amounts of damage their rockets + suicide will do).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The reduction in targetting priority seems to have gone slightly too far. Towers/minions now consistently ignore them until they are almost right overhead (which results in the tower just completely ignoring them). Personally I dont understand why they need such effective flares, but with how it was initially my towers had a chance of shooting them down before they can get over walls. Now it would seem its almost a certainty that they will make it into my soft underbelly :(


This was happening to us last night as well and it's really frustrating. Prior to the targeting change, the copters were barely getting to the wall and RARELY past it. Last night, every wave 2 or more ogres were being dropped behind the defenses and having a field day within the walls of our build. The targeting change went entirely too far, creating a larger problem then the one it was intended to resolve.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Djinn should not be able to Buff the copters, they do insane amounts of damage even inside of full buffed strength drain aura. When each rocket is doing 50k damage, and your defenses have 100k hp, its instant death. I don't think dropping ogres is bad for the game, it gives it a new challenge, but it is unfair when your tackling 5-6 ogres and a Djinn comes up and DE-summons the buff beam or strength drain aura, and its instant death.

There is 1 more nerf that I think should happen:
Inability for Djinn to Buff the Copters, they are already beefy as is, with long range of attack to shoot from outside auras. Plus the inability for defenses to target them, just crazy.

I really feel for the new players who try to move onto nightmare from insane and really have no gear, and no idea. Even with 2k+ stat gear, these new copters really give you a challenge. Insane does not drop anywhere near 2k tower stat gear, your lucky at 1k. I really feel that a slight increase in insane difficulty/drops are needed and all the old maps drops re-evaluated for better balance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Based on limited experience last night with the new targeting priorities, it appears the choppers are given free reign to pelt you from on high if there is -any- mob volume at all on the map. The towers simply ignore them. Instead of reducing priority due to the effectiveness of the flares, they should have reduced the effectiveness of the flares. Seems now they are more or less guaranteed to plop an ogre behind your lines.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The idea with this is that towers don't waste shots that aren't likely to hit something anyway. The best thing to do is shoot them down yourself- even if the targeting priority was higher it would still be the best thing to do. Player damage can also make them drop their ogres before they're actually destroyed (like how damaging a djinn stops its channeling).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sadly for now dropped ogres are dropped with full HP and insane HP compared to "normal" ogres. more than 3 times their HP number.

I know it will change with 7.38e but still sky ogres need a massive nerf. they should have half of normal ogre's hps, since they are dropping from behind.

That's just my humble opinion but we're quite a group of players to think like this.
when 3 13Mhp ogres are dropped at a 20 second interval on the same spot, even very good walls get destroyed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The idea with this is that towers don't waste shots that aren't likely to hit something anyway. The best thing to do is shoot them down yourself- even if the targeting priority was higher it would still be the best thing to do. Player damage can also make them drop their ogres before they're actually destroyed (like how damaging a djinn stops its channeling).

The wasted shots was annoying, but they did get shot down eventually (especially once they entered a snare). Currently, I see them repeatedly flying past my defenses unmolested b/c there is a few trash mobs stuck in a gas some 20+ range units away. I mostly play solo, so I cant really defend 3+ crystals against these and have to rely on towers to do the job. Currently, there is no way that I can do so

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm generally repairing said walls if it's that big of an issue. I think the ogres losing their health buff basically when they are dropped will help it sink into player's heads that you are supposed to be going after them yourself.

Trendy doesn't want your towers dealing with them. That's why they gave them -less- priority. If you really want to be able to 'afk' maps again, use multiple controllers and some seahorses at key points to deal with copters since pets dont have trouble targetting them. I haven't had many issues with these guys myself. They came out way more balanced than the sharken.

As Ahnold Schwartzenhummer once said: Get to the choppaaaaaa!!!!

NMHC was definitely a pain on sky city, but doable.. Considerably easier than the crystalline dimension.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm generally repairing said walls if it's that big of an issue. I think the ogres losing their health buff basically when they are dropped will help it sink into player's heads that you are supposed to be going after them yourself.

Trendy doesn't want your towers dealing with them. That's why they gave them -less- priority. If you really want to be able to 'afk' maps again, use multiple controllers and some seahorses at key points to deal with copters since pets dont have trouble targetting them. I haven't had many issues with these guys myself. They came out way more balanced than the sharken.

As Ahnold Schwartzenhummer once said: Get to the choppaaaaaa!!!!

NMHC was definitely a pain on sky city, but doable.. Considerably easier than the crystalline dimension.


It is a tower defence game. The towers should make you able to deal with them. Besides if towers wouldn't be able to target them then lightning towers or lightning auras wouldn't affect them either... and guess what that they do.

So TE should kick out those flares that interfere with the targetting so people can go back to the game they where enjoying. Or they change certain towers so they are great at countering them for example the etherial trap, as well as the deathstrike towers.

Or increase the DU of the maps so people can incorperate some other stuff like bowling towers directed inwards or anything else so we can finally do something else then the electric, ensnare, gas trap, inferno, strength drain that I have been using nearly everywhere. Where I haven't even been bothering with the slice and dice, etc...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It is a tower defence game.


No.. It's a dungeon defense game.. They give you HERO stats for a reason, to use your hero.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
No.. It's a dungeon defense game.. They give you HERO stats for a reason, to use your hero.


Nope,

tower defense game they even reaffirmed this fact due to their nerfing of HERO dmg in NM.

Your hero is there for maintenance, and to support your towers not be their replacement (with the exception of the barbarian, but we have seen how well that works).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nope,

tower defense game they even reaffirmed this fact due to their nerfing of HERO dmg in NM.

Your hero is there for maintenance, and to support your towers not be their replacement (with the exception of the barbarian, but we have seen how well that works).


The reason hero dmg was nerfed is simple .. I've got a mage that, easily, and without fantastic equipment, breaks 20 mil in dps .. Do you honestly think a mode called NIGHTMARE would be fun if that was allowed to happen? If you want 'super fantastic happy fun time' mode, play easy and quit whining on the forum.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The reason hero dmg was nerfed is simple .. I've got a mage that, easily, and without fantastic equipment, breaks 20 mil in dps .. Do you honestly think a mode called NIGHTMARE would be fun if that was allowed to happen? If you want 'super fantastic happy fun time' mode, play easy and quit whining on the forum.


Yes the reason of the nerf was that the HERO had to high of an impact in a tower defence game. Thanks for confirming that this is a tower defense game and not a hero wipe out everything game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nope,

tower defense game they even reaffirmed this fact due to their nerfing of HERO dmg in NM.

Your hero is there for maintenance, and to support your towers not be their replacement (with the exception of the barbarian, but we have seen how well that works).


The new uber-weps + catarangs are their to counter-balance the loss of hero damage in nightmare. I mean, Shards 4 was very much a step towards trying to make hero damage feasible again. I don't disagree at all. Your hero is there for maintenance and to support your towers. Guess what... Shooting down helicopters carrying ogres before they are a massive threat to your towers? Is supporting your towers. Trendy didn't give you your hero so you can just stand around doing jack with it.

Like I said, if it's THAT big of a deal to you to be able to AFK your runs with little to no hero interaction, get some extra controllers and put some seahorse characters around. I used to do this for aquanos before summoner came out to help deal with sharken.

This isn't a pure tower defense game. No matter what crazy rationalizing you try to come up with for it. I'm sure trendy is very proud of integrating first person swords & sorcery & guns into a tower defense game. Like several other TD games that have been taking the personal interaction route. Don't try to label Dungeon defenders as some plain 'Tower Defense' game.

If nothing else, your hero is a mobile tower. Use it. Or go find a tower defense game that isn't based around hero interaction.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
NOTE:
In no way do I want to be able to AFK through things.

But currently doing my MRTS playthrough (b/c I only just got the summoner) and I am consistently watching helis fly directly over archers who just completely ignore them for a mob at near max range. I've even had this happen while they couldnt hit aforementioned mob.

Also, before they made them invisible to towers I added/shifted snares in many locations so that towers had a good chance of downing them. In its current form, strategy has gone out the window and the only thing snares do is delay the inevitable. I cannot be at 4 chokes simultaneously to stop them, and I refuse to see afk characters as a strategy (plus, I want to play so I want to use the whole screen)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[QUOTE]It is a tower defence game. The towers should make you able to deal with them. [/QUOTE]You know, people say this a lot, but it's not JUST a tower defense game. you have characters with weapons and abilities and leveling up and so on. If you're not using every tool available to you, you're not being as effective as you could be. That's just my personal opinion of course. If you want to insist on towers, then you could use etherial spike traps near their drop points (They actually work pretty well on air units, the only problem is their element). I'd like to hear more of your thought's on the subject though. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
and I refuse to see afk characters as a strategy (plus, I want to play so I want to use the whole screen)


AFK characters are as much of a strategy as anything else that lets you AFK the game. I'd even argue that it is by far the strongest solo strategy you can possibly manage.

I guess you wouldn't consider towers or pets or other players strategies then? Since they give you more AFKability as well.

These copters are mildly annoying at best. And with their upcoming demotions, it's just going to be DD as usual.

Edit: And as the above poster pointed out, they gave you back your targetting for them. So whoopedy-doo. The whiner's win again. (But they always do. Turns out that whining on the forums is actually the ultimate DD strategy for dealing with any mob*)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The new uber-weps + catarangs are their to counter-balance the loss of hero damage in nightmare. I mean, Shards 4 was very much a step towards trying to make hero damage feasible again. I don't disagree at all. Your hero is there for maintenance and to support your towers. Guess what... Shooting down helicopters carrying ogres before they are a massive threat to your towers? Is supporting your towers. Trendy didn't give you your hero so you can just stand around doing jack with it.

Like I said, if it's THAT big of a deal to you to be able to AFK your runs with little to no hero interaction, get some extra controllers and put some seahorse characters around. I used to do this for aquanos before summoner came out to help deal with sharken.

This isn't a pure tower defense game. No matter what crazy rationalizing you try to come up with for it. I'm sure trendy is very proud of integrating first person swords & sorcery & guns into a tower defense game. Like several other TD games that have been taking the personal interaction route. Don't try to label Dungeon defenders as some plain 'Tower Defense' game.

If nothing else, your hero is a mobile tower. Use it. Or go find a tower defense game that isn't based around hero interaction.


There is a gigantic difference between :

1) your towers ignoring the specific mobs
2) your towers if given sufficient time / overkill defense taking care of it.

Nowhere do I ask for it to be afk-able. I just don't like that without insane stats there is nothing that I can build to counter these copters. That isn't to much to ask no? Even for sharkens I sacrificed some harpoons and replaced them with inferno traps on top of electric traps so that they would be less of a problem. And people without insane stats could at least keep working their way upwards instead once again getting kicked in the nuts by the development team that once again only semi - balanced the new mob for the 4 - 5k statted people.

Maybe the jester will impliment something. Just like the summoner made me able to take care of the sharken due to replacing the walls with summoner units and thus freeing up units for... you guessed right more inferno traps. But lately I do find that instead of fun the direction trendy is going towards is the opposite.

EDIT : Instead of that retargetting being done, I would have preferred that some of the buildingblocks that are unused are able to counter this. Enrage auras putting the ogres being carries against the carrier. Death strikers being able to target the carrier without interference from the flares, the bouncy tower knock the ogres off the carrier (thus giving the ogre a 60% reduction in HP, with some backup of possible a trap or...) turning it in a nonissue. Or simply the MM that due to its insane firing rate is able to saturate the flares and renders the defense void for x secs so that any other missile tower can attack it as normal. Or give that effect to the etherial trap. Or to the lightning tower. Or... you can see that many other ways would be possible to spice the strategy a bit up and for people to be able to pick and choose what they want while still retaining the ability of the "hero" to go and intervene on specific spots. instead of most of these towers never seeing the light of day in most of the builds that we see floating around at the moment. And the upside is that we do this without nerfing or globally buffing all the towers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
There is a gigantic difference between :

1) your towers ignoring the specific mobs
2) your towers if given sufficient time / overkill defense taking care of it.

Nowhere do I ask for it to be afk-able. I just don't like that without insane stats there is nothing that I can build to counter these copters. That isn't to much to ask no? Even for sharkens I sacrificed some harpoons and replaced them with inferno traps on top of electric traps so that they would be less of a problem. And people without insane stats could at least keep working their way upwards instead once again getting kicked in the nuts by the development team that once again only semi - balanced the new mob for the 4 - 5k statted people.

Maybe the jester will impliment something. Just like the summoner made me able to take care of the sharken due to replacing the walls with summoner units and thus freeing up units for... you guessed right more inferno traps. But lately I do find that instead of fun the direction trendy is going towards is the opposite.


By no means do these require 4k-5k stats. Heh. Not even crystalline dimension requires >3k stats, which is easy to come by now..

My point was more along the lines that what you and others are asking for (and got) was to MAKE them AFKable instead of having them as a player-dealt with hazard that wasn't as annoying as it currently is.

If copters are too tough for you, that is fine. I just think it's funny that the approved solution will now make them AFKable again. Thumbs up for keeping DD completely AFKable. [/sarcasm]

Then again, I'm one of the very few who are more inclined to quit over them making the game so damn easy now, while all those who don't know how to play are whining about how hard it is. It's sad really. Games should never be balanced towards those unwilling to learn it, but rather more implementations should be put into the game to teach you to play it instead of turning it into another pointless endeavour like every other easycakes MMO/online game around.

So yeah. The short and simple: Enjoy your AFKable copters. Jeremy loves you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thank you, Trendy. I can go experiment with ensnare placements again.

The targeting priority issue is resolved. We can call to adjournment yet another episode of niko vs the world.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...