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trendy fix the Dimension Final Boss


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What is also an issue to me is that we have to beat an extremely long map before having a single attempt to the boss (full setup to build thrice and another shorter wave), an attempt that can be really short on HC.

I didn't tried on NM yet but I assume it's something like 50 minutes at the very least for an attempt that could be failed within only a couple of seconds ! Not really the best way to learn patterns and train avoiding imho.

I don't really have ideas yet to solve this but please understand how abusive this is.

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If you want to have an epic boss battle where you get one shot all the time and the only counter is physically moving locations for better ping, whatever. But don't make players spend a half hour for one attempt. Could you imagine if an MMORPG did that? You clear up to the final boss in Stratholme, wipe on the boss, and have to clear the entire instance again. That **** doesn't happen because it's frustrating to players for no reason other than the developers are far, far out of touch with what their audience wants.

Split it up if you insist on keeping the difficulty.

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If you want to have an epic boss battle where you get one shot all the time and the only counter is physically moving locations for better ping, whatever. But don't make players spend a half hour for one attempt. Could you imagine if an MMORPG did that? You clear up to the final boss in Stratholme, wipe on the boss, and have to clear the entire instance again. That **** doesn't happen because it's frustrating to players for no reason other than the developers are far, far out of touch with what their audience wants.

Split it up if you insist on keeping the difficulty.


They've noted a few posts back that the insta-kill wasn't intentional and will be fixed. The rest is exactly how every boss fight in the game up to now has worked... Do it without HC on until you learn the fight, then do it hardcore.

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They've noted a few posts back that the insta-kill wasn't intentional and will be fixed. The rest is exactly how every boss fight in the game up to now has worked... Do it without HC on until you learn the fight, then do it hardcore.


You missed the point. If Dungeon Defenders can suddenly be Darksouls now, why can't it also be a game with either fair checkpoints or making the Crystal Dimension two maps? When you intentionally make a boss enough of a threat to kill players a fair percentage of the time, you don't force them to do the trash parts over and over to get to him for a single attempt. That kind of game design died out years ago because nobody enjoys trash clearing.

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This is an issue as that's not fair at all. We're making a small change so that can't happen. Thanks for the report!


" * Crystalline Dimension: Old One Boss will not attack for 3.5 seconds after his introductory cutscene, to give you a little more time to prepare (he'll play a Taunt ) "

Thank you so much .. now that should be fun and fair since now you test it (i.e 3.5 sec .. 0.5 is there for a reason :D ) .. for now we should figure what to do with 8 DU in nm hc .. i hope you put that for a reason too xD

Thanks again for listening to us!

:)

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You missed the point. If Dungeon Defenders can suddenly be Darksouls now, why can't it also be a game with either fair checkpoints or making the Crystal Dimension two maps? When you intentionally make a boss enough of a threat to kill players a fair percentage of the time, you don't force them to do the trash parts over and over to get to him for a single attempt. That kind of game design died out years ago because nobody enjoys trash clearing.


So you don't respawn if you turn off hardcore mode?

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So you don't respawn if you turn off hardcore mode?


You've limited lives there :)

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You've limited lives there :)


:) ikr.

Still, seems that the argument is, It's too hard to do in a single life if I check the box that says "I want to do this in a single life". Simplest solution is to not check that box.

I'm just being selfish though, in that I don't want YET ANOTHER newly released DLC to be nerfed to easymode before I even have a real chance to try it, with having to work a day job and all... :(

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Can you change it so that you don't lose lives if you die in build phase? I've fallen off accidentally only to be annoyed that I've lost a life when it's sometimes not really clear that "Oh hey, there's no ground there. Weeeee! -Ded-"

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One question I have. Do you get all 4 costumes when you beat it on NMHC?

I think at least this would be fair since the monk is by far the best DPS class and the hutress and apprentice would be nothing but a liability in a group.

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One question I have. Do you get all 4 costumes when you beat it on NMHC?

I think at least this would be fair since the monk is by far the best DPS class and the hutress and apprentice would be nothing but a liability in a group.


I'm finding app (well, adept, app's are too slow) to be quite good for dps once geared. I'm hearing that the gender change characters don't unlock the skins though, which is a major disappointment.

Monk DPS is just cheap tricks and pets. App with a legit staff can easily push as much DPS as a self buffed monk if you take the pet out of the equation. EV/huntress suffer a bit, though EV can use a staff to overcome this. I feel bad for huntresses, as they'll end up waiting until others can carry them through (or we see what an ultimate gun can achieve).

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One question I have. Do you get all 4 costumes when you beat it on NMHC?


Nope. if you want to unlock app costume .. you need to use app in boss fight! and vice versa for other heros:)

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Nope. if you want to unlock app costume .. you need to use app in boss fight! and vice versa for other heros:)
i've been working on saving the dps huntress. but its proving tough. in time i'll have something figured out

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App with a legit staff can easily push as much DPS as a self buffed monk if you take the pet out of the equation.


Yes, but the pets do 90% of the work.

One question though, when you make a dps apprentice weapon do you upgrade the normal damage or the elemental?

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why can't it also be a game with either fair checkpoints

i support this... like at the start of a bosswave (not instantly to the boss, the start of the wave before boss arrives)

nerfing it would be bad, but if something is difficult we dont want to have to replay the whole level again to just have a cance of defeating it

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Yes, but the pets do 90% of the work.

One question though, when you make a dps apprentice weapon do you upgrade the normal damage or the elemental?


ALWAYS do normal damage. Elemental doesn't scale as well. You'll also want to add in Charge Rate so you can get the biggest chargeshots. Think it maxes at 40 :apprentice:

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Yes, but the pets do 90% of the work.

One question though, when you make a dps apprentice weapon do you upgrade the normal damage or the elemental?


Yes, but the only reason that a Monks pet is so much better then any other pet is the Monk hero boost ability. If that didn't effect pets (which would make everything else MUCH more difficult, so I don't like this), or if ONE player is a Monk out of the 4, this becomes equalized.

Pets only do 90% of the work for Monks. Pets on every other class do < 50% of the work. Personally, to me, this is broken, as it makes the Monk markedly better then all other classes for solo play, leading to claims like yours that the Monk is the best dps. It's not, he just has the most unbalanced/OP ability of all the classes.

And to answer your question; I've recently found that you should upgrade elemental, unless you don't like using Str. Drain/Darkness in your builds. Elemental will usually give you 100% - read double - the DPS of normal damage, but runs into the standard issue of mobs with immunity. The best solution to that is to not use a poison damage staff, and run with seahorse. This way, either you or your horse should be fine to damage any mob you come up against (or you fight under str. drain / in darkness traps / against mage barriers).

An example, the 250^ trans bone staff I currently use does roughly 3m DPS in tavern with ranged upped, 6m with elemental upped. It started with the two numbers roughly 200 points different (in favor of the ranged dmg). If you can live with the issues noted above, you definitely get more bang out of elemental. I've not found a down side so far to this (seeing that my other go to is Lem. on a Monk, which is all electric damage).

Anecdotally, my Monk with a 341^ Lem maxed range does 12.5m dps in tavern (I've upped ranged, might be able to out do this with upping elemental but I don't feel like farming a new Lem). We just got a friend a 329^ bone staff the other night, and he does 12m dps in tavern with it. Seeing that my monk is using boost and I'm fairly certain his app numbers were not, I'd say you've got a legitimate comparison.

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Pets only do 90% of the work for Monks. Pets on every other class do < 50% of the work. Personally, to me, this is broken, as it makes the Monk markedly better then all other classes for solo play, leading to claims like yours that the Monk is the best dps. It's not, he just has the most unbalanced/OP ability of all the classes.

really? w/ a 220~^ STS i do just over 100k per hit (w/o hero boost)
a 250~^ lamp does less than 20k per hit (w/ the same gear) 3 projectiles = <60k... sure it has piercing, but pebbles bounce around (also letting it shoot round corners)
try comparing a monkey on a monk to the same monkey on ranger...
monk is the best DPS class atm (followed by barb - which has more staying power but requires melee distance)

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I also support checkpoints. I actually didn't have a problem on the boss. Granted, my first time through just did it on hard, but everyone died except me (I only died once, and that was because I didn't realize you had to move on the cliff when it fell off, lol). But I don't either want to have to re do the whole map again when I'm doing NMHC attempts. That is just unfair. After beating the rest of the map at least 10 times, you've already proven you can win that part, it's no longer a challenge, just a time waster.

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if beated dark souls and dark souls doesnt have oh smack 1 hit moments so yeah
and also no lag remove the HC requirement and im happy its bull that i have too play 90 minutes too get too the boss too get smacked down within 5 seconds too do it all over again no thank you


either make it so ucan play the boss fight as soon as u unlocked him or remove the hc requirement

lol, in dark soul, in the second run you get alots of 1 hit kills like in demons souls, the second run is the hardder to beat solo.


this is an final boss, its suppust to be hard. in all game the final boss is hard, you cant beat it in your first try

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I'll just say this isn't a bug on how he functions and so the boss works as intended(except the achievement thingy). It's suppose to be a really hard boss and map on purpose and you shouldn't expect to beat it within a day of the release.
I agree with you Ice he should be hard but not UNBEATABLE!! :p

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really? w/ a 220~^ STS i do just over 100k per hit (w/o hero boost)
a 250~^ lamp does less than 20k per hit (w/ the same gear) 3 projectiles = <60k... sure it has piercing, but pebbles bounce around (also letting it shoot round corners)
try comparing a monkey on a monk to the same monkey on ranger...
monk is the best DPS class atm (followed by barb - which has more staying power but requires melee distance)


Sorry, you are correct in that I shouldn't say "is not the best". In the current form of the game, even without boost Monks multipliers are all better than other classes (meaning his pet does more damage, he gets better scaling from gear, etc.).

Huntress is also known to be the absolute worst dps class currently, suffering from terrible damage scaling from player damage on gear, horrible (the lowest, other then maybe summoner) pet scaling/multiplier, etc. I'm still holding out hope that Ultimate guns got a thorough review, though I doubt that has happened.

I'm hoping that Trendy has simply been waiting to rebalance classes at 90 and that this process has already begun in earnest on their end. The heavy reliance on this one class for end-game play is my biggest pet peeve with the game at the moment.

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Although I haven't tried it myself yet, and likely won't for a while: I can definitely relate to people's pain with trying this specifically on NMHC. It like playing many Japanese shmups with really broken end bosses. You'll have to play through the entire regular game, a game you know you have zero chance of failing (once you have your strategy down,) just to earn a chance at the only part that's actually challenging - the final boss. And then the final boss kills you in a single hit, often because you made some simple mistake that may not have entirely been your fault. It discourages you from trying after a while. Although at least in most shmups, if you ace the earlier part of the game, you reach the final boss with a couple lives to spare. Not the case with NMHC. This is like the 1CC achievements you see in many Cave games for 360, haha.

Sure, beating the boss will eventually feel that much sweeter because of how long it took. The problem: those hours of junk-killing beforehand are merely artificial difficulty. The only thing it does is allow you less-frequent chances to learn the patterns and nuances of the boss, the part that is actually challenging (and reliant more on player skill or timing.) The other issue, too, is that we're not just going for this "1CC Shmup Clear" level of difficulty one time and then having no reason or incentive to do it again. People are going to need to kill the final boss numerous times to farm items, and NMHC offers the best quality of them.

That leads to why they can't just isolate the boss battle, or allow you to start right at the boss once you've reached him previously: it would be too easy to earn the reward from that boss (once you find a working way to beat him) If you could just start at the boss wave. But meh, they let you start Survival mode a wave or two before the reward pet and still earn it. I don't see that this would be much different, if they arranged it to be similar to Survival (letting you start on your previous highest-wave-cleared for that given difficulty setting, Hardcore-specific in this case.)

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Although I haven't tried it myself yet, and likely won't for a while: I can definitely relate to people's pain with trying this specifically on NMHC. It like playing many Japanese shmups with really broken end bosses. You'll have to play through the entire regular game, a game you know you have zero chance of failing (once you have your strategy down,) just to earn a chance at the only part that's actually challenging - the final boss. And then the final boss kills you in a single hit, often because you made some simple mistake that may not have entirely been your fault. It discourages you from trying after a while. Although at least in most shmups, if you ace the earlier part of the game, you reach the final boss with a couple lives to spare. Not the case with NMHC. This is like the 1CC achievements you see in many Cave games for 360, haha.

Sure, beating the boss will eventually feel that much sweeter because of how long it took. The problem: those hours of junk-killing beforehand are merely artificial difficulty. The only thing it does is allow you less-frequent chances to learn the patterns and nuances of the boss, the part that is actually challenging (and reliant more on player skill or timing.) The other issue, too, is that we're not just going for this "1CC Shmup Clear" level of difficulty one time and then having no reason or incentive to do it again. People are going to need to kill the final boss numerous times to farm items, and NMHC offers the best quality of them.

That leads to why they can't just isolate the boss battle, or allow you to start right at the boss once you've reached him previously: it would be too easy to earn the reward from that boss (once you find a working way to beat him) If you could just start at the boss wave. But meh, they let you start Survival mode a wave or two before the reward pet and still earn it. I don't see that this would be much different, if they arranged it to be similar to Survival (letting you start on your previous highest-wave-cleared for that given difficulty setting, Hardcore-specific in this case.)


As much as I understand where you are coming from with this, the end of the discussion should be "your are choosing hardcore mode".

It's a choice you make that prevents you from having multiple goes at the boss. You are also running it on the highest difficulty, when you could be doing it on a lower setting to learn the fight. Neither of these a valid option to you? Sounds like a personal problem. You're asking them to nerf the absolute end-boss of the game within 48 hours of it's release, but aren't even willing to try to LEARN the fight with the numerous other options available to you in which to do it.

What is the incentive for Trendy to accommodate this kind of a request for someone that clearly isn't interested in putting in the effort to actual figure out what they're doing wrong. I've seen this exact request/argument repeatedly on these forums each time new content is released. I just hope Trendy holds out this time and doesn't start nerfing immediately.

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