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I would love to see this in Ranked. The tavern as it is, is way to cluttered. I like the feel of having a trophy room, even an armory type room where you can place armor sets/weapon collections instead of dropping on floor .

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I would love to see this in Ranked. The tavern as it is, is way to cluttered. I like the feel of having a trophy room, even an armory type room where you can place armor sets/weapon collections instead of dropping on floor .


I love this tavern too, but it shouldn't simply replace the new tavern.

There has to be a tavern selector. Maybe some time you want the old tavern, then you can choose, or you want to look at the christmas tavern again, the turkey hunt tavern or the valentines day tavern. I did not see any of these taverns :( but I would like too.

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It looks nice, but, honestly, I would hate to see this replace the current tavern. While you have addressed the primary problems with the current tavern, I don't like the way you attempted to solve them.

The biggest problem with this new tavern is that it's WAAAY too big. Even as one of the adult heroes, I feel like an ant in this place. It seems like it was made for giants with the ridiculously high ceilings and steps that are about ten-times the size of any of the heroes. From the outside the building looks unnecessarily huge, and I feel like even more of an ant due to the incredibly large scale of the building and the sidewalk around it (especially when compared to the normal-sized objects around the building, such as trees or DPS dummies).

My other big complaint about the map is the empty space. The current tavern does suffer from trying to cram too many things into too small of a space, but this new tavern suffers from the exact opposite problem; you're trying to stretch too few things across way too big of a space. You have three HUGE floors, which each have several rooms, yet only a couple of them actually serve a purpose. It makes it a pretty tedious task to run to one of the useful rooms since they're all so far apart from each other. The other rooms are just unnecessary filler, and have nothing in them except a few small decorations, if even that. Heck, the entire top floor has nothing more than a few bare beds and the secret room (which, honestly, looks like it was an afterthought).

I also have to point out my dislike for the location of the trophy room. While it is nice that they are all organized and have their own section, I really hate the fact that people have to go searching for it. With the current tavern, all of my achievements are displayed right there, so people get a glance of them while we're waiting that few seconds to start a map, or while someone is using the shop. The trophies were intended to be one of the main decorations for the current tavern, but in your new tavern they're kind of hidden away in the back corner of the second floor.

Overall, I feel this new tavern is a very complicated solution to some very simple problems. In my opinion, the current tavern is pretty nice. It's small, compact, everything is easy to get to. I can go there, do what I need to do and get on to the next map. The tavern isn't supposed to be a huge map to explore and spend large amounts of time in. The current tavern serves the purpose it's supposed to in a very efficient way. My only real gripe with it is that some of the trophies make it kind of difficult to walk around and make the tavern look very cluttered. This could all be solved by simply adding a new room right below the first secret room, with tables around the outside for trophies and possibly move the crystalline portal in there as well. Then they could move the crystal back towards where the crystalline portal currently is to really give us some breathing room. If someone could also remove those four doors that obviously lead to nowhere, and are blocked by the trophy tables anyways, that would be great too.

Again, I really appreciate the hard work you've put into this, and it does look really nice, but I highly doubt Trendy would want to replace the current tavern with this since it's so much less efficient.

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I couldn't have said it better myself Dziggy. The current tavern is really nice with the exception that it's pretty much cluttered with thropies. A simple solution for Trendy would be to remove some achievement tables that block the doors and open them up with a new room behind it.

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I love this tavern too, but it shouldn't simply replace the new tavern.

There has to be a tavern selector. Maybe some time you want the old tavern, then you can choose, or you want to look at the christmas tavern again, the turkey hunt tavern or the valentines day tavern. I did not see any of these taverns :( but I would like too.


Again. Solution for Dziggy -> Tavern Selector

Many people want the new tavern, some don't. But there is a solution that will make anybody happy.

Here is my idea for the selection interface.

Tavern: Classic, Christmas, Thanksgiving, Valentines Day, Nexus [...]
Boss Head:Demon Lord, Goblin Mech, Ancient Dragon, Spider Queen, Djinn King, Kraken, Goblin Battlecruiser, Old one
Trophies: Hide, Show
Secret Room: Accessible to Host, Accessible to all Players
Super Secret Room: Accessible to Host, Accessible to all Players
Lock Tavern Defenses: No, Yes for this time, Yes for all time (It will stay no matter how often you restart DD until you unlock them)
Lock Tavern Drops: Yes, No

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I couldn't have said it better myself Dziggy. The current tavern is really nice with the exception that it's pretty much cluttered with thropies. A simple solution for Trendy would be to remove some achievement tables that block the doors and open them up with a new room behind it.


The other four doors on the second floor that are blocked by the trophy tables can't be opened up because the secret room up there takes up pretty much all of the room for the second floor (and, now that I think about it, most of the ground floor as well). If they were opened up, they would just be additional doors to the secret room. The only one that could be opened up is the one to the right if the secret room door (if you're standing outside it, facing it). Although, they only have a very small space to work with...

Again. Solution for Dziggy -> Tavern Selector

Many people want the new tavern, some don't. But there is a solution that will make anybody happy.


That really isn't a great solution, in my opinion. I'm sorry, but the nicest way I can describe the new tavern is unprofessional. It wouldn't be a good addition to this game, even if it was optional. The scale of the building is way too big, and it doesn't look good.


Secret Room: Accessible to Host, Accessible to all Players
Super Secret Room: Accessible to Host, Accessible to all Players


Not a good idea. There is a reason they are only accessible by the host. Trendy doesn't want people who haven't yet earned access to those rooms to be able to access them from someone else's tavern. They don't really need access to those rooms in someone else's tavern because there's nothing in them except a forge and a radio.

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After running around it, I really do enjoy it, but I honestly think the outside is not needed, or at least only have the front available with the dummies and don't need the rest. Just my opinion.

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The other four doors on the second floor that are blocked by the trophy tables can't be opened up because the secret room up there takes up pretty much all of the room for the second floor (and, now that I think about it, most of the ground floor as well). If they were opened up, they would just be additional doors to the secret room. The only one that could be opened up is the one to the right if the secret room door (if you're standing outside it, facing it). Although, they only have a very small space to work with...



That really isn't a great solution, in my opinion. I'm sorry, but the nicest way I can describe the new tavern is unprofessional. It wouldn't be a good addition to this game, even if it was optional. The scale of the building is way too big, and it doesn't look good.



Not a good idea. There is a reason they are only accessible by the host. Trendy doesn't want people who haven't yet earned access to those rooms to be able to access them from someone else's tavern. They don't really need access to those rooms in someone else's tavern because there's nothing in them except a forge and a radio.


Unprofessional is still insulting. Go try and make a new tavern just how you think it should be. Dead serious, go download the DDDK and do a better one with your own custom meshes and textures. Make it look just like the tavern like I did. As for the scale of the building, it is actually 2/4 larger than the current tavern excluding the outside. Oh yeah and by the way the current tavern on the outside is not a wonderous sight to behold. It's actually kind of messy, because it hasn't been cleaned up since its implementation a long time ago.

Secret rooms are host only because they also double as -private- storage rooms for said host.

As for the outside area, whats the point in having a new tavern if something NEW isn't done with it? Having the outside is one of the only key differences from the Original tavern. You're still thinking indoors. With the extra space it opens up for some possibilities like gatherings for special events (Max player count is now 32, has been for a while.) How about special Holiday events? Where would 32 people go (just an example) if it was locked to the indoors and lets just say the 3rd floor was cut out too. Doesn't leave a lot of room.

The whole point of me even bothering to make a new tavern is to expand on the idea. Not copy-n-paste. People have wanted a new tavern since the game came out. Just go look in the archives. I'd say I'm not getting a little defensive but I am honestly. From a design perspective what really is the next step from the tiny current tavern? Think about it. Is it a bigger slightly more organized tavern that looks exactly the same but scaled up, with one or two more places to expand on it? No not really. Dev's would have to go and do what I did in the end anyway and redesign the whole tavern.

I just added expandability. Potential for other ideas to be built around and even inside it. If you really don't like it tell me how you would honestly make it any better. Because to me it just makes better sense how it is laid out now. Combat dummies are outside for practicing now instead of inside the dusty tavern. Secondly, terrain and trees can be replaced with something more Fall-ish for the halloween time, ground can be covered with snow, water can be "frozen" and turned into an ice lake where players can screw around if they want to. How about the Thanks Giving event? Or the easter egg hunts? Throw in any special event. You wont have to go and miss them trying to farm a map on the hardest difficulty. The tavern has been the one place everyone has had from the start and can enjoy no matter what, period. Even MORE can be done now with it, without needing EXTRA dlc stuff.

And please spare me the "More isn't always better". It's true but I didn't give an excess amount. There's just enough to work with and a little extra room if needed.

As far as switching taverns goes, why bother switching whole taverns when the static mesh decorations are the only special things about them? Secondly they aren't special events (looks/aesthetics) if you can see them at any time you want. Hence the reason the Dev's have avoided the complaints coming up from the tavern loading up slow because everyone has their own unique tavern setup. Technically a dynamic themed tavern could be done with some scripting, but in the end could cause memory and performance problems for people who aren't on gaming rigs. My GF can barely run this on her laptop as it is, and I know buying performance grade PC's isn't everyone's top financial priority. This has to be kept in mind.

Edit

Here I thought I was done. Maybe you missed the part of the forums section this is in? WIP = Work in Progress. Top floor is definitely in need of some furnishing and further purpose. Everything in ANY level is just filler. You could play this game on a flat square with nothing else in it. I have not posted ANYWHERE saying this was 100% completed. I still have some work to do on it, and it'll be updated when I've got some time to dedicate to that.

Again adressing the size of the Tavern. Yes it is big. You were expecting the tiny boxy thing the current tavern is? Yes the ceilings are High. Don't know if you've ever been in a Lodge before but that is how they are. Stair cases are also kind of large inside of a lodge. So it's more of a lodge-esque tavern. This was intended, as the current original tavern has pine trees and animal skins and heads all over the place, sort of like a hunters lodge would out in the woods some where. I just took that concept and expanded it. If you feel small inside of it, you should. That is the point. It's no longer a claustrophobic box but an actual building set in a "world space".

Finally no one from trendy has said "We want this in the game please send it over!" There's been some interest but that's about it. Now I'm not going to jump to conclusions but I would say that they're probably going to leave the current tavern alone for right now till whatever new content they decide to work on or release actually warrants a tavern change as big as this one. From a development perspective "don't fix it if it isn't broken, but not a bad idea there!" probably as close as this gets to replacing anything at the moment.

If you can't tell, I am fairly passionate about what I do. Sort of makes me come off as a jerk (or worse terms I'm sure come to mind) but that is how it is. I find the design process easy (lots of ideas), but make no mistake doing level design is a lot of work. Every piece of wood trim inside the tavern is hand placed, each step in the wood stairs, hand placed. All of the details, hand placed, lined up to be flush on the surfaces. (I know I missed a few spots and a few things clip in some spots.) Anyone who says that this isn't an art form is nuts in my opinion.

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Nexus, it's ok. Dziggy is just trolling. Opinions like these are just worth nothing. Reacting on this is just a waste of time. You are doing a great job and you know that ;)

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Before I start, I wanna say that you shouldn't get so upset about negative feedback. I have made many mods for other games in the past, and I have learned to appreciate negative feedback because it's honest and it let's me know things that I might want to consider in future projects (or the current project, if still possible). Even if I strongly disagree with what is being said or how, I appreciate the alternate perspective of it.

No matter how good you might be at making mods, you aren't perfect.

Unprofessional is still insulting.


Unprofessional was an overly-harsh word to use, and I knew that at the time of writing it. I will apologize for that.

Dead serious, go download the DDDK and do a better one with your own custom meshes and textures. Make it look just like the tavern like I did.


Not sure what you're trying to prove here... That you're a better modder than I am? Yeah, for the time being, you are because I haven't gotten into modding for this game yet. That doesn't really prove anything, though. I might beat you at a game of basketball, but that doesn't mean I'm a good basketball player. ;)

The whole point of me even bothering to make a new tavern is to expand on the idea. Not copy-n-paste. People have wanted a new tavern since the game came out. Just go look in the archives. I'd say I'm not getting a little defensive but I am honestly. From a design perspective what really is the next step from the tiny current tavern? Think about it. Is it a bigger slightly more organized tavern that looks exactly the same but scaled up, with one or two more places to expand on it? No not really. Dev's would have to go and do what I did in the end anyway and redesign the whole tavern.


A lot of your post wasn't addressed to me, so I'm not going to respond to the rest...

5:AM, when I can barely keep my eyes open, isn't the best time for me to review a mod. After taking a second look at it, it isn't as terrible as I described it. I'm still not going to say I'd like to see it replace the current tavern, but I will re-review it for you.

The thing I dislike the most about this new tavern is the top floor (yes, I know it's not yet finished). It's what gave me the perception that the tavern was too big, from both the inside and the outside, and is also the main reason for the "empty" feeling that the tavern has. The top floor doesn't serve any real purpose, and the map is plenty big enough without it. If you moved the secret room to the room across from the trophy room, I believe it would significantly improve the feel of the tavern in many ways:

* It would remove A LOT of the empty space.
* It would reduce the size of the building a lot, while still leaving plenty of room for large parties or events.
* The secret room could be made to look like it actually belongs in the new spot.
* Things would feel a lot less scattered apart and tedious to get to.

However, I can see that the top floor is clearly far from finished, so maybe you already have plans that address these problems. If all you plan to do is put a few lights and decorations up there, I don't think it would be enough because it's still going to be a completely useless and unnecessary floor, making the building so much bigger than it needs to be.

Ignoring the top floor completely allowed me to appreciate the rest of the map a lot more. I will say that, although there are some other things I could nitpick about, I would see this as a definite upgrade to the current tavern without that top floor (even in it's finished state, I presume).

Maybe you missed the part of the forums section this is in? WIP = Work in Progress. I have not posted ANYWHERE saying this was 100% completed.


Oh, sorry, are we not allowed to post feedback on projects until they are fully completed? :(



Nexus, it's ok. Dziggy is just trolling. Opinions like these are just worth nothing. Reacting on this is just a waste of time. You are doing a great job and you know that ;)


Negative feedback is not trolling, and just because we disagree doesn't mean he should completely ignore me. Like I said, negative feedback is a good thing because it is honest. Not responding to negative feedback just because it's something you don't want to hear is not a good idea. He did the right thing by trying to discuss it with me (his approach to it could've been better, but then we're both guilty of that).

Technically, you're the one who is trolling me because you wrote that comment expecting me to fire back with an insulting comment towards you. You're trying to get a rise out of me, which is the very definition of trolling. ;)

I have a very calm personality, so it doesn't work on me.

But, yeah, he is doing a good job, and I've been trying to let him know that while also expressing my honest opinions.
(Did I do better this time? :D)

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It's trolling because with a tavern selector, there would be no problem. It is no constructive critics, nobody could take advantage of this, so it's trolling, so your opinion is worth nothing. I want you to fire back? Not interested. How did you get the idea that I am interested on your "Firing back" at all? Tell me, then next time I won't let you get the idea. Right now i couldn't read most of your post. Your ego was in the way.

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It's trolling because with a tavern selector, there would be no problem.


Except the problem that Nexus pointed out...

As far as switching taverns goes, why bother switching whole taverns when the static mesh decorations are the only special things about them? Secondly they aren't special events (looks/aesthetics) if you can see them at any time you want. Hence the reason the Dev's have avoided the complaints coming up from the tavern loading up slow because everyone has their own unique tavern setup. Technically a dynamic themed tavern could be done with some scripting, but in the end could cause memory and performance problems for people who aren't on gaming rigs. My GF can barely run this on her laptop as it is, and I know buying performance grade PC's isn't everyone's top financial priority. This has to be kept in mind.


In addition to that, it means several different taverns that all need to be updated if Trendy adds anything in the future, or decides to do any events involving the tavern. It really limits what they could possibly do with the tavern, and, as Nexus said, one of the goals for this new tavern is to increase the number of things they could do with it, if they decided to use it.

It is no constructive critics, nobody could take advantage of this, so it's trolling, so your opinion is worth nothing. Right now i couldn't read most of your post. Your ego was in the way.


I recommend you look up the definition of trolling because, again, disagreeing with someone about something is not trolling. If you read the end of my last post (the part directed at you), you will find the correct definition there.

Not sure what my ego has to do with anything in my previous post. Almost all of it was about the mod, and very little related to me. If you're going to insult someone for no real reason, you should at least take the time to read what they have posted to make sure your insults are accurate. ;)

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Before I start, I wanna say that you shouldn't get so upset about negative feedback. I have made many mods for other games in the past, and I have learned to appreciate negative feedback because it's honest and it let's me know things that I might want to consider in future projects (or the current project, if still possible). Even if I strongly disagree with what is being said or how, I appreciate the alternate perspective of it.

No matter how good you might be at making mods, you aren't perfect.

Unprofessional was an overly-harsh word to use, and I knew that at the time of writing it. I will apologize for that.

Not sure what you're trying to prove here... That you're a better modder than I am? Yeah, for the time being, you are because I haven't gotten into modding for this game yet. That doesn't really prove anything, though. I might beat you at a game of basketball, but that doesn't mean I'm a good basketball player. ;)



Not trying to prove anything. Just think of it as a challenge, rather than a "I'm better". No I'm not perfect, not claiming to be. Modding doesn't make anyone perfect at all. Some area's I've got a lot of practice to do before I could be considered a real "pro". Specifically in creating static meshes, how I make them is a bit crude right now.

I don't mind the feedback at all. I just don't like blatant oversight. Of course its known its not done. And I have a layout for the top floor that will make sense and even serve a practical purpose and will fill in the space (even the empty ceiling space on the third floor.) There isn't much I can do about the outside of the building feeling out of scale besides adding more wood(or stone) trim on it to sort of fill in the empty wall space. I already took out a few windows to keep it from looking too repetitious.

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Let's keep it civil guys :)

It's important to take constructive criticism in everything you "publish".

It's also important that the style, tone and level of criticism is adjusted accordingly and appropriately to the point of discussion.

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...I have a layout for the top floor that will make sense and even serve a practical purpose and will fill in the space (even the empty ceiling space on the third floor.)


Well, if you have plans that will make good use of the space other than just the secret room up there, I'll wait to see that before I give my final opinions about it. My next suggestion was going to be to put a flat ceiling over the third floor, but if you have something else in mind to fill that space up, that might do the trick as well.

I don't know what you're other plans for the map include, but I'd like to see some more lights outside. It's very dark and hard to see in most areas. In particular, along the dirt paths on either side of the tavern and near the DPS dummies.

I already took out a few windows to keep it from looking too repetitious.


You could maybe take another look around the stairs on the ground floor. Four windows right next to each other looks a bit odd, especially from the outside.

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I can't get in either secret room by the way. Or is it not possible yet? I should at least have one of them open to me.

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I can't get in either secret room by the way. Or is it not possible yet? I should at least have one of them open to me.


Nexus isn't done with Kismet right now. That's why.

My problem is: The water of the lake. I can't see it :/

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I can't get in either secret room by the way. Or is it not possible yet? I should at least have one of them open to me.

Nexus isn't done with Kismet right now. That's why.

My problem is: The water of the lake. I can't see it :/


Kismet controlling the secret rooms is indeed not done at the moment. Having to go to alternate websites to upload the file makes it difficult to update when I want to.

And Cjur3, unfortunately water is controlled by post processing in Dungeon Defenders. Not sure just how I can make it viewable for folks with post processing turned off.

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Kismet controlling the secret rooms is indeed not done at the moment. Having to go to alternate websites to upload the file makes it difficult to update when I want to.

And Cjur3, unfortunately water is controlled by post processing in Dungeon Defenders. Not sure just how I can make it viewable for folks with post processing turned off.


Mh... Then I would call that a bug. I have turned PP on. I see the waterfall, but not the lake.

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Mh... Then I would call that a bug. I have turned PP on. I see the waterfall, but not the lake.
Hrm... well try redownloading it from the alternate link and see if it fixes the problem.

If not, when I get time, I will see if I can't do something else with it.

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  • 1 month later...
It wont be featured on the Steam Workshop. The file size restrictions disallow me to upload it. So that just means I need to redesign it. I might get around to it when I finish my contest map.

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