Sharken Killing the Fun - Please Help!

I think most of us can agree that a sharken plowing through defenses results in the most awful game-quitting feeling ever (ALL my friends quit after getting a taste of them), but I'm going to try and be constructive here and ask for help. Maybe there's a solution I'm not seeing.

Here's what's happening to me:

I use gas traps, proximity traps, ensnare auras, and strength drain auras in front of all choke points. This covers me pretty well, but sharken will pretty much always get through when they have an ogre to block them. The ogre will block all the shots, and inbetween gas trap triggers, the sharken behind the ogre will charge. I use an apprentice for towers, so targeting priority doesn't matter, because none of my towers are piercing.

Is there ANY way to handle this, besides switching my tower build to squire and using the harpoons to pierce? I started with my apprentice when this game came out, and I'd really like to keep him for at least something. I even suggested that apprentice walls be immune to sharken (a page or so back on the suggestion forums), since they're pretty weak in the health department, but it got no replies. If I switch to harpoon, my apprentice will no longer have any use in my build, which is what I want to prevent.

Any help on this little problem of mine would be very much appreciated. My tower stats for each character are in the 600-800 range and I'm farming MistyMire, if that helps. I'll sacrifice any mount of tower DPS if there's such a thing as a sharken-immune setup.

Veto

Just a heads up that even with pierce in open areas, Sharken still charge anyways because the harpoons think the ogre standing still harmlessly is a bigger threat than a Sharken winding up a charge. Even if you did switch to Squire, you'd be in the same dilemma.

All I can suggest is replacing the Proxy with an inferno trap and adding an electric aura with all these things buff beamed, then cross your fingers that it kills the Sharken when they start coughing. Really DU intensive though but that's how I tend to deal with them.

your not killing the ogres fast enough. Ogres distract defenses and enable other mobs to overcome crowd control defenses and advance on your position. If you have them an EV and Summoner can provide a significant boost in the amount of firepower you are able to put out and will help clear the ogres and allow your defenses to continue clearing the other mobs (if you lack these other players/guardians will help). I personally use snare/drain/electric auras on each of my lanes with a buff beam on each. These clear out all the trash mobs and in many cases are able to kill the sharken while they are stunned in the gas traps. Also, your stats arent exactly high, this lends it self to your limited ability to put out damage and kill ogres/sharken.

Other issues could include your build, seeing how you did not post the build you are using i cant say for sure, it could be that your tower/trap/aura placement is not optimized for your low stats.

A few other important questions:

What wave are you getting to?

What builders do you have?

Do you run a DPS char ?

Pets?

Are you running Hardcore and or mix mode?

What are you expectations with your stats?

try swapping your proximity traps for either electric auras or inferno traps, and don't use anything aside from fireball towers from your apprentice (don't even bother with magic missiles unless you need to shoot things that won't be in strength drains). you should also be using buff beams to help out (and I assume you are); make sure you upgrade those before everything else. you need to have done enough damage to the sharken with your elec auras before they reach the walls so that your fireball towers can do the rest of the damage via splash even if an ogre is in the way.

if you are still having problems, level up a summoner and just stick a bunch of archers behind your walls to kill ogres fast. they do insane amounts of damage for their MU and mana cost. they also have the upshot of dealing with spiders very handily.

when you're doing mistymire with low-ish stats, you're better off not following guides and instead building closer to the spawn points, since you simply won't have the range on your towers to shoot the entire map from the middle crystal. the north spawn is a pain in the *** since it's uphill, but you can still generally work something out. try looking for a portal defence build and work from there.

I use an apprentice for towers, so targeting priority doesn't matter, because none of my towers are piercing.

Actually, you have the best piercing tower available, which is lightning tower :) The range of lightning tower is very good as its lightning strike chains all over the map as long as a mob is in range. I am not sure if deadly strike towers prioritize charging sharken over an ogre but you could test this. Deadly strike towers shoot through walls and buildings etc. so you can position them so that they cannot be charged.

Gas traps with electric auras positioned so that the aura hits the enemies when they are stunned is probably the most common way to kill the sharken before they recover from the stun. You could also try positioning the proximity traps a bit further from the gas trap, so that it hists the mobs that are stunned properly. Just to make sure :)

EDIT: Oh, and lightning tower hitting on a sharken that is winding up for a charge stuns it.

EDIT: Oh, and lightning tower hitting on a sharken that is winding up for a charge stuns it.

oh, yeah, I keep forgetting this

still though, 7 DU is pretty costly

still though, 7 DU is pretty costly

Yeah, agree :( But it lets you to concentrate only in getting the apprentice gear up first and if buffed, the lightning tower can do some serious damage :) You can also use them as the primary anti spider towers, so you dont necessarily need to use du on those that much. If you need release some additional DU's you can try replacing str drains with darkness traps. They will not work against wyverns, but they will strip immunities and the elemental part of other mobs damage away. In ogres case this should be about half of the damage it does.

Sharken are a poorly designed mob for a tower defense game. But the cat's out of the bag and now we're stuck with them.

Misty is not very friendly for countering sharken. The reason being that there are blind spots where sharken can see your defenses but your towers can't (particularly the northeast lane). Moraggo is honestly a better choice, as you can take advantage of terrain so that they can't just charge: they have to go upstairs and around corners while your towers pick them off or Lightning Auras/Inferno Traps melt them away. Make them walk right into gas traps right as they turn corners.

Move your Gas Traps further away from your walls so that they get caught in the gas twice, make sure they are not in range to "wind up" before the next gas stuns them or else the gas wont work a 2nd time.

I just use an elec aura with Harpoons, used to use inferno but now I only put them on possible problem area prefering a proxy on the wall area to help on ogres.

You can DPS the clogs behind where the ogres are yourself rather than focusing on the ogre, depends how your build is to wether thay will whack on walls.

Summons!, place a couple archers and a mage nearer the gas trap, very rare these will ever take agro from an ogre (or anything that will kill them, especially in a StrDrain+Ensnare, a mage buff beamed will kill a winding up sharken before it can move.

Not had a problem with misty in a long time and now with summons its a cakewalk, I used to have an issue with LOS sharken, but it really is a positioning issue, that or you just need to up your stats.

Insane Talay/Aqau can get you pets with 300+ to all tower stats if you need a quick boost *Giraffe are generally rubbish though on insane)

Sharken are a poorly designed mob for a tower defense game. But the cat's out of the bag and now we're stuck with them.

Misty is not very friendly for countering sharken. The reason being that there are blind spots where sharken can see your defenses but your towers can't (particularly the northeast lane). Moraggo is honestly a better choice, as you can take advantage of terrain so that they can't just charge: they have to go upstairs and around corners while your towers pick them off or Lightning Auras/Inferno Traps melt them away. Make them walk right into gas traps right as they turn corners.

I disagree with the Sharken comment.

If anything they are a god send and made the game more enjoyable. They keep you on your toes and it makes mobs that more fun to kill. The only one complaining about Sharken are the ones that want to sit back and AFK every wave. It's been mentioned before, but the best way to deal with Sharken is to kill the Ogres first. Your towers should finish them off with ease afterwards.

If you're only using Apprentice Towers, then I can imagine Sharken being a thorn up your bum.

In order to effectively clear enemies + Orges, Harpoon + Fireball towers are needed. You essentially have Splash + Pierce working in tandum for massive coverage. You'll also want ensare auras instead of gas traps, and Proxitmity mines. The idea is to slow Sharken down so they come into range and get massacred by the traps. You can sub electric auras, but then you'll need a strength drain incase of immunity.

The setup won't stop sharken 100% of the time, but Ensnare Auras + Proxitimity mines are clutch against clogging IMO.

I disagree with the Sharken comment.

If anything they are a god send and made the game more enjoyable. They keep you on your toes and it makes mobs that more fun to kill. The only one complaining about Sharken are the ones that want to sit back and AFK every wave. It's been mentioned before, but the best way to deal with Sharken is to kill the Ogres first. Your towers should finish them off with ease afterwards.

And everyone assumes that its about being able to AFK vs not AFK. I have never been in a position where I could AFK survival at wave 20+. My defenses require constant maintenance. Being able to push the limits of my build/gear is gone: sharken end it well before the true challenge of keeping up on repairs sets in.

You can AFK as long you get some people with really good pets and stay in the most mob focused areas

And everyone assumes that its about being able to AFK vs not AFK. I have never been in a position where I could AFK survival at wave 20+. My defenses require constant maintenance. Being able to push the limits of my build/gear is gone: sharken end it well before the true challenge of keeping up on repairs sets in.

For once I actually agree with you. I think one of their biggest flaw is how they can completly push defenses out of the way without us being able to relocate said defenses. So once something is somewhere where it isn't supposed to be one has to sell it and completly start over from scratch.
Spiders while being way more annoying and dangerous can at least be countered by the likes of electric auras. Sharken not so much.

For once I actually agree with you. I think one of their biggest flaw is how they can completly push defenses out of the way without us being able to relocate said defenses. So once something is somewhere where it isn't supposed to be one has to sell it and completly start over from scratch.
Spiders while being way more annoying and dangerous can at least be countered by the likes of electric auras. Sharken not so much.

You can replace it if you have an active builder in the game.

there are several, several ways of dealing with sharken. While obviously some are better than others, we are given plenty of ways to stop them. And with the ability to use summoner and mu? If you wanted to you could just use all the mu to deal with sharken... keep the same build but put them off to the side of walls and have sharken go for them... all i'm saying is there are ways of dealing with them

And everyone assumes that its about being able to AFK vs not AFK. I have never been in a position where I could AFK survival at wave 20+. My defenses require constant maintenance. Being able to push the limits of my build/gear is gone: sharken end it well before the true challenge of keeping up on repairs sets in.

The challenge should be the map + mobs not from repair management.

You can replace it if you have an active builder in the game.

You didn't even bother to read what I've written did you? Replacing it takes more time and a lot of mana and you'll have to do that over and over and over again.

@David, sorry but not one of the ways we're given is even remotely safe. As for spiders, once the spider is gone the problem is solved. Even webbed towers start being usefull again and do what they're supposed to be. If a Sharken manages to even charge once you'll have to replace all the stuff, collect all the mana again and so on.
Spiders were beyond annoying at first, but at least there are ways to deal with them completly and make sure they can't do lasting damage. Sharken not so much.

The challenge should be the map + mobs not from repair management.

Mobs do damage, one has to repair and maybe replace stuff. How is this any different from having to sell and rebuild stuff that Sharken displaced? If anything, the later one is simply more annoying.

sharken don't go for summons

You didn't even bother to read what I've written did you? Replacing it takes more time and a lot of mana and you'll have to do that over and over and over again.

well, if your doing things anywhere near correctly, the sharken are likely moving a wall on you. Yes it takes time, the mana to build it is <50, and the upgrades will cost you another couple thousand. If im building/upgrading in an active lane (which is where these problems should happen) mana for upgrades has never been an issue. Now if you have to do this 3 to 4 times per wave, i can understand being frustrated with the cost and time. I however would also argue that if your getting sharked that many times your doing it wrong. I rarely get sharked on maps that i have had time to refine the builds on, when i do is normally because of a mass ogre clog i didnt see that prevents my traps from being cleared. Rarely does it end my game though, its a challenge to over come, i either need an active patch builder to fix the hole, or to dedicate a DPS character to cover the hole.

Part of the OPs problem people seem to be missing is hes trying nightmare survival on misty with 600-800 stats, hes going to have problems, its doable but its going to require a perfect build and support, and i doubt it will get him to the end. His towers/traps/auras just dont have the damage out put to clear ogres fast enough.

I really do understand peoples frustration with sharken, but once you understand their mechanics its not that hard to stop them. For those who are having issues, if you want id be happy to provide some insight and strategies if you can provide some more details of your situation. For those who would like to take me up on this offer PM me with some basic information.

Characters you have available and their stats
Map you are working on and a link to the build you are using
A brief description of what issues are causing you to fail and what wave it tends to happen.

The challenge should be the map + mobs not from repair management.

What's challenging about 1 mob being able to pretty much guarantee a game over if it gets off it's special attack? Oh right, nothing. It's pure cheese. The only defense is to make sure it never happens because there is no recovery. There's nothing challenging about killing a Sharken in its sleep.

You can replace it if you have an active builder in the game.

A shoved wall generally causes an immediate failure (eg. Sharken followed by a couple of his Ogre buddies). Even if you're lucky and it doesn't, walls have about a 50/50 chance of still touching a buff beam. Take down the buff beam and you further weaken your defenses. So no, you can't really replace it.

Thats the problem I regularly run into. Wall gets pushed but its still in contact with the buff beam. Trying to repair the problem would end up making it far far worse. There isn't a way to fix it after it happens majority of the time, especially if you are solo. You prevent it or you lose because everything can 1 shot your crystal.

I'm not talking about this constantly happening either. I don't hideously overpower everything I attempt, most of the time I'm barely scraping by at higher NMHC waves. I have to stay on my builder. Theres going to be that odd sharken that gets through eventually. There isn't even any warning when it happens because the sharken likely died immediately from being in the front after pushing the wall just enough to make everything go to hell.

I've yet to actually lose a wave to anything but a sharken.

Take down the buff beam and you further weaken your defenses. So no, you can't really replace it.

Except buff beams don't disappear when towers are pushed out of them.

Except buff beams don't disappear when towers are pushed out of them.

Follow the conversation gooder.

Author A: Sharken moved my defenses, now I'm screwed because I can't do anything about it
Author B: Use an active builder and you can replace the defense

You can't replace a wall during combat phase if it is still touching a buff beam without losing said buff beam, making Author B's solution not really much of a solution.

Follow the conversation gooder.

Author A: Sharken moved my defenses, now I'm screwed because I can't do anything about it
Author B: Use an active builder and you can replace the defense

You can't replace a wall during combat phase if it is still touching a buff beam without losing said buff beam, making Author B's solution not really much of a solution.

Well if that's the case then you should be able to replace the wall and the buff beam, since your active builder is prolly going to be the EV anyway.

You're right though, Sharken make the game impossible and ruins it forever. /sarcasm.