Dungeon defenders > Diablo 3

I never liked the open and ranked mode in dungeon defenders untill diablo 3 came out. With diablo 3 I always have to be connected to a server to play single player. Then i thought, I would like this game more if the trendy peoplez worked on it.

I agree. I hate how you have to be connected to play all the time.

I got D3 and played it maybe 5 hours before I felt the urge to play DD. Haven't touched D3 since.

D3 is nice but it seems to me to be just D2.new To me D1 and D2 seemed much different / solid continuation of the story line with solid improvements to the whole game. The transition from D2 to D3 seems dumbed down interface for one. While the graphics are stunning and the environment destructibility is nice to me it just seems like D2 with a fresh coat of paint.

Biggest thing to me is the forced ONLINE play when playing solo. I work internationally and playing with lag sucks. Losing a boss fight due to 2 seconds of lag because it is using way to much network traffic is rediculous.

Then there is their BS claim that the online requirement is to maintain the sanctity of the online marketplace etc... BS They could do it with single player game local and online game that is attached to the marketplace. The whole reason for this is to just cut down on Piracy and they aren't man enough to admit it openly. The whole scheme from the online only to the real money auction house is all designed to line their pockets. I don't mind a company producing and selling a game and trying to get a fair $ for it. D3 isn't delivering the value for the $ in my opinion.


DD on the otherhand has very low network utilization and even when playing on online mode I can play single player lag free. DD is sold at a reasonable price for the content / playtime it provides... I would actually say it is pretty cheap in comparison with the rest of the marketplace. I think right now I am at about $.06 per hour played. (rough estimate) I really like the DLC method of destributing content. This allows some players to stay on the cheap side and stay with the core content and if they wish / have the $ or save up for it they can get additional content. I think some people see this as nickle and dime; however I see it as paying for what you want.

Saying that something is better than a smoldering pile of garbage isn't really saying much.

Granted, I'm not saying DD is bad. It's not, I assure you.

Though, I can also say that having paid nearly as much for DD as D3's cost (40~50$ IIRC between original price and all the extras purchased)

Well, it's just annoying when I'm reminded of certain issues DD has that refuse to get fixed, for whatever reason.

Here's a few.

1. Hacks and Hacked items. Doesn't really seem like it'd be too difficult to have Ranked have a cap on the maximum potential an item can have, and clamp down an item's stats if it exceeds it.

(Or worse, has modifiers normally unavailable, like extra projectiles)

2. Two goes along with 1, all the Real-money sellers. Granted, both 1 and 2 have been significantly reduced, but I'd be hard-pressed to browse a few public games and NOT spot either one.

3. Itemization. And this is a big one for me. In a game where gear is literally everything, much like in D3... Well, my favorite example is the Halloween loot. Ever since TE announced that these items were going to be available -anywhere- after finishing the Halloween map...

Well, I got quite excited. I'd give my left nut for a Transcendent or Superior Van Wolfenstein. And yet, nearly all of the (8) halloween drops either don't drop at all, or only come from "animals" in eternia shards maps / tavernkeep.

4. Class balance. Who balances classes for TE? Heck, who balances ANYTHING in TE? A great example of how BAD they are at balancing... And how heavy-handed they are... Is pets.

Damage dealing pets were always pretty terrible, then they were buffed to ridiculous damage levels, then nerfed and buffed repeatedly. And yet, the biggest issue remains... Player damage is virtually worthless in comparison to pet damage in Nightmare.

Now, on to what I actually mean regarding class balance.

Nobody in their right mind can honestly tell me that every class is just as viable as the other as a DPS class. Nobody.

Hunter/Huntress is largely interchangeable, but Hunter wins out due to better invisibility, better piercing shot, and higher survivability. (Oh, and a Jetpack)

Though, both are rather horrible. Huntress weapons are shafted left and right, even though it's the only class that lacks boosting abilities to multiply said damage.

That being said, EV is a direct upgrade. Ability to equip two of said weapons (or apprentice weapons if preferred)... As well as a significantly improved jetpack and higher overall stats from the second weapon, and better skills to boot.

Onward, to Barb/Squire/Countess!

Barbarian is only as good as the gear he's equipped with, far more so than squire and countess (inability to block and save himself)

Countess is straight-up worse than squire, and often squire beats out barbarian in terms of damage capability due to circular slice and rage. Plus, higher HP and damage resistance too.

Apprentice as DPS is still pointless (again due to EV) and unless I'm mistaken Mana Bomb is still too weak to bother with.

This leaves Monk. (Notice I didn't say Initiate)

Initiate is vastly inferior to monk. Enemy drain won't work on bosses, doesn't heal, and scales horribly. (100~150% damage rather than 100~300%+)

Remote defense boost is a joke, EV boost beam will ALWAYS outclass it, and even without the beam it's hard to run into a good situation to use it. (Plus, tower boost scales WITH ev boost beam or guardians)

Oh yeah, and summoner. That's a thing too, almost forgot about it.

A class that you'd suspect (with player damage being worthless) to be amazing with two pets. Except, he's only good in multiplayer when there's a monk around to boost him.

(2 x 100% pet damage is worse than 1 x 300%+)

And lastly, loot itself isn't even reliable. Remember Retribution for Huntress? Sure, some claimed it was Overpowered. And comparing it directly to other weapons, I'd have to agree. As a weapon, it was overpowered.

However, given that your weapon's DPS is the only thing hunter/huntress has going for them, it needs to be. Huntress doesn't HAVE the damage boosting skills that other classes do.

But hey, sure, it's stronger than other weapons comparing vanilla DPS. Sure. So we'll tone that down.... Until it's worthless. Why? Because F@[[1507,hashtags]] you that's why.









TL;DR : D3 sucks giant monkey balls, but I don't feel motivated to come back to DD either until playing actually feels rewarding again, rather than tedious.

I got a refund. Nuts to that game.

Best thing is: when u create a thread like D3>DD they cancel it or move it from general to off topic, when u create a SS>D3 they keep it... lovely :)

Best thing is: when u create a thread like D3>DD they cancel it or move it from general to off topic, when u create a SS>D3 they keep it... lovely :)

This one will probably get moved too, it was just created after hours.

I don't know why everyone must compare these 2 games. As it stands Diablo 3 is a Dungeon crawler and Dungeon Defenders is a Tower Defense. A better off-topic dicussion would be Diablo 3 vs Torchlight 2.

HOWEVER! If you must compare them, compare each community.

That said, Blizzard games are host to some of the most immature punks on the internet. Their watered down games breed some of the most nonsensical elitism that I've ever seen. I really don't know how you can be considered, 'hardcore' when they practically hand the 'high-end' gear out.

I don't know why everyone must compare these 2 games. As it stands Diablo 3 is a Dungeon crawler and Dungeon Defenders is a Tower Defense. A better off-topic dicussion would be Diablo 3 vs Torchlight 2.

HOWEVER! If you must compare them, compare each community.

That said, Blizzard games are host to some of the most immature punks on the internet. Their watered down games breed some of the most nonsensical elitism that I've ever seen. I really don't know how you can be considered, 'hardcore' when they practically hand the 'high-end' gear out.

They compare them because they both have the persistent character format (which Blizzard/Diablo invented in the first place). Also Dungeon Defenders' problems very closely resemble the same struggles Blizzard had with the original Diablo, especially Hacking and Duping.

Also Dungeon Defenders' problems very closely resemble the same struggles Blizzard had with the original Diablo, especially Hacking and Duping.

I dsagree, Trendy is not plagued with hackers or trainers like the original Diablo. Infact, in my entire Defending career, I've YET to see a hacker or hacked item. Whilst playing Diablo back in the day, hackers were knocking on every hosted game's door in some way, because it was extremely difficult to prevent it client-side. Also battle.net was in it's infancy stages anyway.

IE: Drop item, run back a little, move forward, click to pick up! DUPED!

Again, 2 different games.

persistent character format

Please explain what this is exactly?

(From what I gather, you mean a saved character state? A character which you can use on any server? etc etc?)

Persistent character is a character that continues to exist outside a single game. Stats, armor, etc. Compare that to say Team Fortress 2 or Starcraft, once the game ends everything that matters starts over and everyone is equal.

Persistent Character format should not be confused with Persistent World format (MMORPG) because the characters still can not exist outside the game since the game never ends.

Persistent character is a character that continues to exist outside a single game. Stats, armor, etc. Compare that to say Team Fortress 2 or Starcraft, once the game ends everything that matters starts over and everyone is equal.

Persistent Character format should not be confused with Persistent World format (MMORPG) because the characters still can not exist outside the game since the game never ends.

Gotcha, but I think your statement holds some untruth.

Neverwinter Nights is an actual game that can utlize a persistant world with a persistant state character. Basically, a hack n' slash with the functionality of a persistant world. I've seen some custom mods for the game that actually turn it closer to an MMORPG.

(I think we're going off-topc though!)

I don't know why everyone must compare these 2 games. As it stands Diablo 3 is a Dungeon crawler and Dungeon Defenders is a Tower Defense. A better off-topic dicussion would be Diablo 3 vs Torchlight 2.

I think the reason people are comparing the two is because (end game) both games come down to farming for gear.

IMO this may be true for D2, but for D3 farming consists of going to work (IRL) and getting money for the RMAH.

Persistent character is a character that continues to exist outside a single game. Stats, armor, etc. Compare that to say Team Fortress 2 or Starcraft, once the game ends everything that matters starts over and everyone is equal.

Blizzard was a little late in "inventing" that. I was doing it on my Commodore 64 in the early 90's with this game (and I doubt it was the first): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pool_of_Radiance

Blizzard was a little late in "inventing" that. I was doing it on my Commodore 64 in the early 90's with this game (and I doubt it was the first): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pool_of_Radiance

Lol, well that's not quite what I meant. Specifically it's a multi-player format. For example, I wouldn't call Mass Effect a persistent character game even though the characters can be transported from ME1 to ME2 to ME3. It's not a concept Blizzard truly "invented" either, they were just the first to adapt it to an online video game (excluding MUD's and other text based games). That idea has existed in paper games long before video games were viable. It just depends on how you look at it I guess.

Lol, well that's not quite what I meant.

So next time, say what you mean. Less confusion that way.

Specifically it's a multi-player format. For example, I wouldn't call Mass Effect a persistent character game even though the characters can be transported from ME1 to ME2 to ME3.

Porting to a sequel is only one aspect of how you could use PoR character data. The article does not specifically mention it, but character data is stored independently from the save game file. Start a new game with pimped out characters from your previous game? Sure. Get rid of the thief for the fight coming up next because you need an extra wizard? Yep.

Basically, what Diablo does, minus the multiplayer plus the ability to transfer to sequels.

It's not a concept Blizzard truly "invented" either, they were just the first to adapt it to an online video game (excluding MUD's and other text based games). That idea has existed in paper games long before video games were viable. It just depends on how you look at it I guess.

Right, RPG video games are an adaptation of table top pen&paper RPGs. I would certainly hope the concept existed there first.

Diablo didn't bring anything new to gaming that wasn't already out there. They just put the different pieces in one pretty package. I had persistent characters in wasteland crpg long before D1. In fact D1 (and the sequels) all owe their existence to the text based rogue-likes. And before anyone says well they added the pretty graphics - there were/are several derivatives that had the ability to use graphics instead of ANSI text. Look at Moria on the amiga. Though I will say that Diablo was new in that it was real time. Which is the same thing that Blizzard did with their strategy games (Warcraft etc.) as an improvement on the old TBS games. All in all I'm disappointed that they dumbed down D3. I'll take DD over that any day. If I want mindless click n twitch I can just play FPS'.

Now if Trendy would just make Master of Magic 2... :)

I paid $60 for Diablo 3 and I miss every penny. It's got a terrible story that they shovel in your face, all the characters are stupid, and there's like 6 hours of content padded out ad nauseum.

Oh, and the graphics are pitiful.

I paid $60 for Diablo 3 and I miss every penny. It's got a terrible story that they shovel in your face, all the characters are stupid, and there's like 6 hours of content padded out ad nauseum.

Oh, and the graphics are pitiful.

I look at D3 as a game for a rainy day, especially when you're board with all your other games.