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DU problems in talay mines


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Hi, I'm not sure if I'm the only one who is complaining about the du's problem but I think that 170 du's is not enough for such a big map. Even if we are using summoner to replace some harps for minions it's kinda impossible to deal with it. I hope people support me and trendy adds more du

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I agree. All previous maps were doable without the summoner (talking campaign here), hell, with a little effort you could complete all maps without a SEV, but with Talay Mines the DU is insufficient for a build w/o a summoner.
Map has 4 crystals, each crystal has 3 access ways, mobs approach each crystal from 2 directions (3 including flyers), so thats at least 8 paths that need to be locked or 12 if u want to be supersafe...
for comparison, Aquanos has 3 crystals with each u need to lock down only 2 paths (ok, plus AA at the middle crystal)
I would luv to see sum1 from TE doing this map w/o the summoner, especially as this map is somehow a part of the ORIGINAL campaign.
i could go on, but i think the rest is self-explanatory

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I did struggle at the start using all 340 combined DU/MU, on hard with 1k stats.

I think they should definitely raise the DU, but I personally can't recommend a new limit.

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With the last build I tried on Talay on Hard, I couldn't even get enough DU to buff beam all main defenses. I was eventually able to buff beam them, but only after sacrificing two Ensnares and shortening several walls... That eventually became my downfall, as at one point Ogres started piling up at the shortest wall and walked beside it because there was no space left to lean against the wall.

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It's fine. You either need the summoner, or 3-6 very capable DPS people. Even with either scenario, it's an EXTREMELY hard map.

Use DU for walls, auras, buffs, and a skeleton tower setup (1fb/mm per crystal).

For 1-2 players, add summoner.

For 3-6 players, optionally add summoner, or else everyone needs a very strong monk or barbarian.

Also, you need to explore the map and find where they choke. There are a couple of places you can build which basically remove a lot of pressure on the crystals themselves, so find them, and fortify them, and you'll be ok.

But yes. This is a summoner-centric map. If you bought this, then a) you're predisposed to buying DLC, so there's a good chance you already have the summoner and b) it has the summoner skin, so you probably already have the summoner.

And finally, it's a shame that multi level maps work so badly with overlord.

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I do agree with this, even after playing the map multiple times. I was even thinking about making a topic about make aura Electric Aura 4 DU instead of 5 to help out. (Still think it should be but that another subject) This map is huge and like you said if you shorten your wall you will pay for it by an ogre. If you try using monk aura, you end up losing some walls. If you do wall and harpoons you miss out on gas trap or slow aura. I understand you have trade and risk a lot of times, but on this map really it just too much taking away.

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Well, I just cleared insane survival. Given the fact I reach wave 26 Misty NM, I must tell it was damn hard, tiring and based on glitch hunting. After some tweaks I fixed all leaks, flying Orcs and what not. I should be overgeared for it, especially with extensive use of summoner, but still needed to keep and eye on walls and never AFK by far.

At least rewards are worth it, 4 Rocks, 3 are significant gear progression and 4th is comparable.

Coming back to the topic, 170 DU is just fine, assuming you have access to new heroes.

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People saying you need the Summoner just amplify the point that there should be more DU.

That's proof enough this map is severely under DU'd.

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People saying you need the Summoner just amplify the point that there should be more DU.

That's proof enough this map is severely under DU'd.


No doubt about it. So basically trendy now want us to buy summoner to be capable to play tis map or have any friend who has the dlc. Personally, I think that it's not the way... Because if you didn't buy the char dlc you can't play the map which is ridiculous. Trendy should really think the way they are heading with new maps and dlc. And they should really add more du's in this map. 170 in such a big map and without summoner... What a joke dudes

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i think 15 or 20 du extra should fix all the problems and i also think the map is heavly under Du needs
as if u want too defend some sides with walls u need 5 du -4 du because of the big paths

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No doubt about it. So basically trendy now want us to buy summoner to be capable to play tis map or have any friend who has the dlc. Personally, I think that it's not the way... Because if you didn't buy the char dlc you can't play the map which is ridiculous. Trendy should really think the way they are heading with new maps and dlc. And they should really add more du's in this map. 170 in such a big map and without summoner... What a joke dudes
It's a good business model though. Trendy has to pay their employees somehow. "Requiring" one to easily complete the other puts more money in their pocket and furthers their ability to stay prosperous enough to continue shelling out daily patches and extremely inexpensive bi-weekly DLC.

And besides, how many of us don't have ALL available characters already maxxed out?

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I prefer the challenge of coming up with a build that works for the map and its' current DU/MU. If they were to make it easier, the people who already can do it would just face-roll it and farm an infinite supply of rocks and items.

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people who can already do it dont matter if they make it easier since they can already do it -.- easier or not and it should be made fair that even people with around 1.9kish-2.5k have a slim chance of doing it

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I prefer the challenge of coming up with a build that works for the map and its' current DU/MU. If they were to make it easier, the people who already can do it would just face-roll it and farm an infinite supply of rocks and items.


Yeah, because the current market of 70+ tokens for one pet sure does make sense.

What is wrong with an infinite supply of rocks? Unless you're trying to make a ridiculous amount of money off them.

Edit: just looked at your started threads...

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poll?


What is wrong with an infinite supply of rocks? Unless you're trying to make a ridiculous amount of money off them.


lol, i saw someone trying to sell an easy one for 600mil...

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poll?



lol, i saw someone trying to sell an easy one for 600mil...


lol that's great.

That's not the point of this thread.

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Yeah, because the current market of 70+ tokens for one pet sure does make sense.

What is wrong with an infinite supply of rocks? Unless you're trying to make a ridiculous amount of money off them.

Edit: just looked at your started threads...
Classic want to farm some weapons later?

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As I said, it doesn't need more DU.

It's not a solo map, just like Karathiki and Cliffs. Both of which are also incredibly hard to duo if you're not incredibly well geared.

It's definitely the hardest map available right now, and without a summoner, that means you need trans/supreme (3.2+ stats) rather than myth/trans (2.5k+).

If you bring a summoner, as with all maps, the requirements drop drastically.

If you want to try without a summoner, you will need fully geared builders (EV, App, Trapper, Monk) and 3 very strong DPS characters (10m+ dps), one for each crystal (you can largely ignore topside, sees almost no traffic) but, really, ideally, 5, because mistakes happen. This is no different to cliffs, which is incredibly hard to solo without a summoner after 22 or so, and becomes drastically easier with 3+ strong DPS. In addition, you want a bulletproof internet connection. There are crazy ninja swarms (like karathiki) and if the host doesn't have a good connection, they're often invisible.

You get 220 45m HP ogres at wave 28. Maybe more. I forget exact numbers. That alone should tell you that this isn't for the faint hearted.

I like that it's incredibly hard. Currently, the 'end game' is all fairly trivial once you have 2000 stats. This is not. This is damn hard work. I approve.

So, yes. I would very much like to see the DU left as-is. It's fine. I don't want another map that's trivial. I want a challenge. Farming aqua just a few times will let you progress from 2000+ gear to 3000+ gear with no trouble at all.

I just wish the rock was more practical, because all you do right now is remove it, build, re-equip, change. Which entirely defeats the point.

"Do you have a rock?"
"Yes"
"Why don't you have it equipped?"
"Because I like to build a map in under 30 minutes"

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so that either makes you selfish because u can complete it and u dont want anyone else too complete it or u like broken maps because some people like too play the game in singleplayer and the game should function just as well in that mode then in a co op match it should be evenly balanced

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[QUOTE]so that either makes u selfish
[/QUOTE]
I can't complete it on NM. I can get to wave 28. I plan on trying to hit 30 tonight.

Can you complete Karathiki solo? Cliffs? Can you complete Misty campaign solo? What stats did you need? Did you complain when you had 1k stats that it wasn't enough, or did you farm to get better gear, so that you could take the queen down? I'm hoping you tried to better your stats rather than screaming you couldn't do it. But who knows.

And I gave my reasons why I think it should remain as is. It's good to have a bloody hard challenge. I would hope other people feel the same, and feel like they have something to work towards, rather than 50% of the community being able to steamroll a map in the first week of its release.

If all maps are made stupidly easy a week after release, then what's the point in buying them? They offer no challenge. The loot here is considerably worse than aqua, simply because there are no lol drops. If you want a great rock, you can farm one on insane. Incredibly good ones drop, as Warmonger pointed out.

With the release of the next shards, max stats will be approaching 5k. Even with the diminishing returns ramp, that's massive overkill for any existing map (including talay). Is it really so bad that I'd like a map which requires you to be properly end-game geared?

The only reason to do nightmare is for the challenge. And if it's not a challenge, why even bother?

Also, it's "you". And punctuation exists for a reason.

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actualy i can complete thoes maps and like i said the maps should be able too be done solo and shouldnt need u too have lets say 3 or more players or the need of dlc chars and like i said im not thinking bout only myself i can complete the maps i got the stats but im also thinking bout the community too have a fair chance at better loot

also nice attempt too troll

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Really? You can complete Karathiki/Cliffs survival solo to wave 35/30? I'd love to see your build and know your stats. Assuming you're doing it without the summoner. If you have the stats I think you do (they'd be 3000+) then you're all set for this.

And you know what? Not every map has to be solo friendly. It's a 6 man map. It shouldn't be surprising that it's going to be extremely hard with 1 person. Anyway, there are plenty of other threads you can go and whine about single vs multiplayer if that's the argument you want to have.

My point is this. For the 6 man maps, unless you have gear which is close to maximum possible stats, and all the available help you can get (read: EV, Summoner), you're not going to finish survival on nightmare solo, and until I see your build for Karathiki, I refuse to believe you've soloed it to 35, especially considering the top 200 on the leaderboard is basically people who have only hit wave 14, and quit after the monkey.

If you're only talking campaign for Talay, then this post from the first day of release will see you through with no trouble at all.
http://forums.trendyent.com/showthread.php?64615-Guide-Talay-NM-Campaign-7.36, which you'd know about, because you were the first to reply.

It's no secret that both the EV and the summoner are designed to help the solo player progress by effectively providing all 4 guardians (buffs) wherever is needed, and extra DPS (minions) where players would normally be.

So, if you want to solo this map, guess what? You have to buy them. But if you already paid for Talay, I dont see you having a problem paying for the summoner. If you do, maybe host a game and put "Good summoner needed" in the title. It's very easy to do. If you don't know what to build, then I suggest you wait until someone releases a build you can just copy, without ever having to think for yourself.

If you really want to whine further about having to pay to win, then here's the thread for you. http://forums.trendyent.com/showthread.php?64043-Paid-for-DD-shard-DLC-but-game-is-now-useless

[QUOTE]also nice attempt too troll[/QUOTE]to*
And we still need to teach you about punctuation.

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To be fair, this map was designed with the summoner in mind. I mean, you get a costume for it to boot. Just try to rely on minions for damage and use your DU for auras / walls, and you should be golden. One harpoon to tag sharken, one aura stack per crystal. Adjust buff beams for optimal positioning. I don't think this map should be doable without summoner given it was built for him t'be used.

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still it should be balanced for everyone too be able too do it with the original chars

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