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jemmajule

Orc minions in front of walls or instead?

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I've seen orc minions put in front of walls and I've seen them behind the walls. Which one is better? Or just don't put a wall down. What holds more agro? I'm not good at knowing why Ogres stand there and wait to get to the harpoon they'll never reach, but what is the agro with the minions there now? And should they be there instead of the walls?

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If they are behind the wall, they will not take as much damage as if they were infront of the wall, though the wall will still take damage while the Ogre will push enemies away from the wall, and still get rid of the enemies.

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This is what confuses me, which holds more agro? People say the monsters will ignore the minions and start attacking the wall when its near, then again they say monster will attack what ever is closer.

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I prefer an ogre in front of the wall. Ogres get healed (fast) by a nearby mage. Walls are not.

And in the unlikely event your ogre dies you still have a classic wall to keep em back (not to mention no nasty cobold surprises).

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Here's some Aggro info for those who care:

-Ogres, and most other mobs, get aggro'd to whatever has dealt the most damage to them. Note that this is total damage dealt, not whatever deals the most damage per shot (though obviously whatever deals the most damage per shot will often also have dealt the most damage and thus draw aggro).

I'd say minions usually generate lower amounts of aggro than towers and players because:

-Towers have much longer range than Mages & Archers, so they start dealing damage far earlier and tend to rack up quite a bit of total damage dealt. Thus minions rarely pull aggro away from a tower. Regarding Melee minions, unless you're manually running them out to meet ogres they'll basically never pull aggro from a tower.

-DPS Pets (on a DPS char, especially monk w/ Hero boost) deal the most DPS in the game [Note: DPS pet aggro 'goes' to the player it's attached to, so ogres will like to target you]. This of course means no minion will draw aggro away from a remotely decent DPS player.

As for monster attack behaviour here's what I've deduced from their ingame behaviour:

Monsters want to attack whatever they are aggro'd towards. In order for melee monsters like Ogres to attack, they need to move into melee range of their target. This is why they derp in front of the walls while something behind the wall (and out of swing range) is holding their aggro. They're trying to move into attack range of a tower, but can't because of the wall.

Now for anyone wondering why sometimes a pile of 3 ogres at a wall might start beating the wall. Say you're using harpoons, they might only be hitting 2 of the 3 ogres (thus only holding aggro for those two ogres). The third ogre not being aggro'd by the tower will decide to start bashing the wall for what exact reason I don't know. It's likely they just pick the closest defence and decide to smash it but I can't confirm that for sure.

So with that in mind, you shouldn't have to worry about melee minions or the walls getting smashed by ogres as long as the main source of aggro (usually a harpoon or a player) is out of Ogre swing range. Ogres will completely ignore anything they aren't aggro'd to.

Now as far as putting Orc or Ogre Minions in front or behind the wall, both work fine depending what you want them to do. If I just want mine to dps Ogres I put them in front of the wall on Hold Defensive so they don't wander much, just sit there waiting for anything to get to the wall before they engage. If I want my minions being more aggressive I put them a bit behind the wall in Hold Offensive mode so they'll wander and attack. The main reason I put mine behind the walls in this mode is so that they don't wander out too far and try to clear a gas trap (which usually results in a few kobold explosions and a dead minion).

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Thank you for explaining aggro, SirSmash. I feel like the clouds have parted and I can feel the warmth of the sun on my face! :)

I agree with bigjeey, that having an ogre/orc in front of a wall will be healed by the nearby mage.

So, although an ogre minion can deal some damage, my towers will do more damage over time and thus I have my answer! Thank you!

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Now for anyone wondering why sometimes a pile of 3 ogres at a wall might start beating the wall. Say you're using harpoons, they might only be hitting 2 of the 3 ogres (thus only holding aggro for those two ogres). The third ogre not being aggro'd by the tower will decide to start bashing the wall for what exact reason I don't know. It's likely they just pick the closest defence and decide to smash it but I can't confirm that for sure.


All walls have something called "Bump Aggro" - merely being in contact with them raises their aggro levels at a fixed rate. They also gain an initial amount of aggro the first time a monster sees them.

Finally, there's one other factor - if a monster can't path to its target for long enough, it drops that target from its aggro list, and targets the next best option (typically another tower that's attacking it whih it can't reach...). All the while, the wall's been building aggro constantly, so after enough cycles of this, the wall has enough aggro to steal the ogre.

Means the whole "ogres derping at walls" is a stat-check - can you kill the ogre before it cycles through aggro enough times to attack the wall?

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The other reason you might want to put stuff in front of walls is the same reason you (should) DPS ogres so they turn around.

It means when they start smashing, they're not attacking the walls at all. Less wall smashes, less repairs. And most importantly, less risk of AoE damage splash to the crystal.

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All walls have something called "Bump Aggro" - merely being in contact with them raises their aggro levels at a fixed rate. They also gain an initial amount of aggro the first time a monster sees them.

Finally, there's one other factor - if a monster can't path to its target for long enough, it drops that target from its aggro list, and targets the next best option (typically another tower that's attacking it whih it can't reach...). All the while, the wall's been building aggro constantly, so after enough cycles of this, the wall has enough aggro to steal the ogre.

Means the whole "ogres derping at walls" is a stat-check - can you kill the ogre before it cycles through aggro enough times to attack the wall?


Thanks for the info, that clears up the few loose ends I had about aggro!

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