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Minion Mage Damage Ramp reduced by 25%, Minion Orc & Minion Ogre Damage Ramps increa


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Honestly, while I do think the degree of the nerf may have been a bit much, I do agree that on principal it was needed. Not only were mages generally the most damaging unit (with an admittedly short range and low hp, sure), but they were -also- the minion with the highest general utility value (though, still not much, to be fair). I'm hoping that these damage nerfs are just the first step in shifting the balance closer so they can have more utility.


They buffed range and healing of Mages in next patch. Check it out.
Much needed. The range of Mages is so low that their damage doesn't amount to much, b/c getting close enough to attack is certain-death. Good start, but I think Flash Heal overall should get some love (both Hero's and Mage's).

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[QUOTE]i agree with the change to the mage's damage. it was EXTREMELY high, and even with a 25% reduction, still will be. [/QUOTE]It's not a 25% reduction. The *damage ramp* value was cut. The actual loss in damage is about 50%.

The Mage is not so broken that it deserved to have its damage be cut in half.

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It's not a 25% reduction. The *damage ramp* value was cut. The actual loss in damage is about 50%.

The Mage is not so broken that it deserved to have its damage be cut in half.


No, but maybe it would be after the range/healing buffs coming down the pipe.

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No, but maybe it would be after the range/healing buffs coming down the pipe.
You also have to remember that the act of healing cuts into the mage's already abysmal attack rate. If your minions are taking a beating, the mages basically shut down in terms of doing damage.

A nerf might have been needed, but the extent of the nerf is too extreme.

This is just my humble opinion, btw.

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Sorry Trendy I have to agree with the others here. YOU BLEW IT GUYS! The Nerf was WAY to strong!
The only real strength of the Mage was his high attack power. He has a short and slow attack. He cant spam skeletons like the real deal and his hp is poor. Please fix him up a bit.

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You also have to remember that the act of healing cuts into the mage's already abysmal attack rate. If your minions are taking a beating, the mages basically shut down in terms of doing damage.

A nerf might have been needed, but the extent of the nerf is too extreme.

This is just my humble opinion, btw.


Yeah, maybe. Not disagreeing that it might have gone too far. I'm just taking a 'wait-and-see' approach. With the range ramps, I expect we might be seeing mages shoot nearly as far as archers did before, and archers are gonna be pretty sweet.

And, personal opinion here, but I'd rather see mages be an effective healbot than a beastly damage dealer. There are plenty of things that do damage well.

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I really wasn't attracted to them for their healing. Flash Heal is more than good enough to keep minions alive. If your minions are taking so much damage that Flash heal isn't good enough, minion healing probably won't be enough either.

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It's made worse by the fact that the minion attack rate is apparently capped after a certain amount. I don't know the exact number right now, messing around a bit, but it's easy to check. Give your summoner a set of gear with high enough tower attack rate, then equip a huntress guardian (no buff beam required). The DPS will not change on any of them. The numbers indicating their attack rates will go up, but they will not attack faster :/

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I agree wholeheartedly, mages did do a bit too much damage, but honestly? fireball turrets had the same dps on dummies as mages, and assuming they scaled correctly to nightmare mode, this would make fireball turrets superior in overall damage output, sure they cost DU, but they can attack 5x as far as a mage can. A 50% reduction in overall damage to a mage is way overboard, i can understand dropping the mage from 680k to 400k in damage at 2k minion damage stat, but cutting it in half is way too much, even with the range ramping buff theyre getting next patch.

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It's made worse by the fact that the minion attack rate is apparently capped after a certain amount. I don't know the exact number right now, messing around a bit, but it's easy to check. Give your summoner a set of gear with high enough tower attack rate, then equip a huntress guardian (no buff beam required). The DPS will not change on any of them. The numbers indicating their attack rates will go up, but they will not attack faster :/
That's pretty much it. their DPS is heavily limited by this.

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I agree that the attack rate is pretty terrible, but that's true of all minions to some extent, and something that I think has to be looked at across the board. Again, though, this nerf probably needed to happen before that could begin to be a discussion.

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I agree that the attack rate is pretty terrible, but that's true of all minions to some extent, and something that I think has to be looked at across the board. Again, though, this nerf probably needed to happen before that could begin to be a discussion.


The rate itself isn't so bad. The ramp seems to be atrocious. A huntress guardian makes no difference at 138 rate or at 2200 rate. All minions, they just don't seem to gain much, if anything, from tower attack rate.

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It's a tricky business, though. Attack rate is an easy stat to break things with if it isn't handled carefully. I do think minions should generally be somewhere south of towers in terms of attack rate, both because they have more versatility with the ability to move, and because they use MU instead of DU. But at the same time, yes, it feels like putting points into minion attack rate is dripping water from a turkey baster (or 'Canadian Squirtgun', as it were) into a bucket with a huge hole in the bottom. And still, they'd be hard pressed to start off a whole lot worse than they are as far as attack rate goes...

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sure the dmg of them was realy high, but it was peak damage.
only one shot per second, towers do...5 to 10 shots in this time? maybe more? with 70 too 100k dmg? on 4 or 5 times the range?
i was completely fine with this.
the mage itself does 700k dmg at a rage of 16 (full buffed wit 2219 stat etc), one shot per sec
harpoons will do 75k at a range of 40 and i think a rate of fire of 5 per seconds.
that would mean that the harpoon is dealing 1,5Mil at the same time the mage is dealing the 700k burst, and my squire has stats 400 to 500 points lower them my summoner.

Attack speed wont affect the mage, range wont affect him, hp wont affect him, and now not even damage will make the difference...
20% ramp increase in range wont change anything at the fact that the mana for the mage is now worthless, because the archer gets this buff too.
if the 20% healing increase will change it...i dont know but i think not

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Trendy balancing at it's best. Instead of *FINE*tuning like every other company out there, they just hit the big red button and nuke it all to hell.

Mages were just fine as they were. They could rape *** with good placement and in a buff beam only. The short range glass cannon type is everything i'd hoped it would be. Now they should also up the splash radius a bit and increase projectile speed.

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The short range glass cannon type is everything i'd hoped it would be. Now they should also up the splash radius a bit and increase projectile speed.

me too, and i hope they will change this back a little bit.
i mean...it cant be that the mage will lack in damage, range and Hp against the archer,
25% lower damage with the same range then before and fine.

fireballs do splash damage. Although it's worthless if they can't hit anything due to range.

sure, but how many times gets a bunch of enemys that close to them? at later waves it wouldnt even make sense, because the slow moving fireball would hit the next wave instead of the roadrunner fanclub, breaking their necks while running into your harpoons.
also you have harpoons, traps and auras reducing them in a huge number long before the mage can see them (he is old...stay a while and listen)

maybe the healing buff is now strong enough to keep an ogre up at full health
i would be fine with this too, havnt tried the damage of him for now, but its about 75k in a normal tavern
edit: NM up to 300k without BB, nearly the same as my old mage without BB

that we cant have the damage back should be clear, for some builds it was way too strong, root them on a BB and shield them with auras and physicals. No ogre can stand against this.
possible alternate solution would be a smaller percentual healing for towers, or a bunch of skeleton come with them (so they would act like typical RTS carriers, bring a bunch of units to the field and support the rest of your army while the small units defend your ***), so they would worth the mana and MU then

to see a summoner summons summoners who summons minions would be...summonception awesome xD

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I'd still like to see skeletons implemented as another type of minion- 1-3 MU or so, 40-50ish mana, melee attacks, highly unremarkable stats all around. Only special traits they have are lack of expense, and their corpses persist a bit after death, allowing mages to rez them back up. Maybe only as much as they're healed, instead of to full. I dunno. I would like something else spammable other than just archers, honestly. Maybe new minions will never happen. But we've got a whole new cap on how much we can put on the map, and only 6 things to fill it with. It feels pretty limited. And summoner already breaks the formula of 5 defenses per hero. Iunno, doesn't seem totally impossible is all I'm saying.

...And I like skeletons... :skeleton: :skeleton: :skeleton:

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Yeah, it's not a terrible idea, but I think mine comes close in effect while wigging people out less over adding more units that don't even take up MU, let alone DU.

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i havent patched (very sneakily kept dundefs up all night whilst i slept >=D) but from the sounds of it this was way too big of a nerf... and increasing archer damage in next patch? archers>mages?

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?

They boosted range on mage and archer, not damage on archer.


i realised that in college when i reread the patch notes
... major fail first time xD

still... with fireball speed the range increase is alot less useful...

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The healing seems to be fine for me... On my Apprentice (900-1300-700-650 about) and my Summoner (1000-1000-900-500 about) I was doing a Alc survival on nightmare and around wave 19 sharken knocked my EV walls (1600) out of the way and the mages healing saved the match because I got owned by a random ogre snot ball

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I am confused about why people feel that Mages didn't need a nerf.

At ~2k stats, fully buffed ... I remember seeing my Mages doing 1m damage per hit. o.O

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I am confused about why people feel that Mages didn't need a nerf.

At ~2k stats, fully buffed ... I remember seeing my Mages doing 1m damage per hit. o.O


At those stats you need them to be fully upped in a upped buff beam and boosted by a monk. In the same case a harpoon would do around 300K damage, shoot faster, further and penetrate mobs.

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