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Active vs. Inactive Builders


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Hey everyone, so I've been debating this for a while. When I buy armor for my builder, I try to make sure that it can cap resist and also have good stats in tower. Unfortunately, this really is difficult to find the perfect pieces. I was just wondering if people even used active builders or does everyone just use inactive builders. Is it worth it to invest so much time in finding active building pieces? Or should I just look for really good tower stats armors? Thanks for the feedback!

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With Buff beams now, I don't have builders active most of the time, unless I'm in a group and we need the extra damage.

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Yeah I don't know what to do. I'm trying to upgrade my items but I don't know if I should try to keep my builder active.

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I keep my builder inactive most of the time now but cap resists anyways just in case. I feel like the tower potential you lose from capping resists isn't too much, but what you lose by ignoring the resists is a lot greater. Plus I may want to swap armor pieces around on different characters and this just makes them more versatile (and imo, it will make it more valuable if you ever decide to trade or sell it later on when you get a really good piece).

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Before Buff beam I had builder active most of the time. And what I would do is, cap Generic Resists and not worry about the others and that did me just fine.

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Well I was trying to see what's the better idea. Since most people don't use active builders, would it make a tower armor piece easier or harder to sell if I capped the resist? I mean some people would think about 40-50 points would have been wasted on resist when it could have gone into tower stats instead. I feel like the 40-50 points are pretty significant or else it wouldn't be this much of a problem deciding on this. xD For example, I was looking at my new trans plate gloves it has 303/139/281/281 on the tower stats unequipped with 206^. I was thinking that if I didn't invest into resist, I would about 40-50 more points to add into tower attack speed after i capped the tower damage. But if I did throw points into resist, my tower attack speed won't be as great.

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Well I'm not too worried about selling it exactly right now. I just don't know which way to go with upgrading. I see a lot of 2k+ builders and none have resist. I do wana reach that point but it seems very hard if I have to worry about resist too :( but on the other hand, I feel like it's missing stats if I skip the resist. I just don't know what to do.

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Well I'm not too worried about selling it exactly right now. I just don't know which way to go with upgrading. I see a lot of 2k+ builders and none have resist. I do wana reach that point but it seems very hard if I have to worry about resist too :( but on the other hand, I feel like it's missing stats if I skip the resist. I just don't know what to do.


most people go inactive with dps monk out. The extra dps you get from a monk's boost far outweighs the 30% bonus

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most people go inactive with dps monk out. The extra dps you get from a monk's boost far outweighs the 30% bonus


Not necessarily the best idea for some of the large maps however... e.g. Moraggo or Karathiki.

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I'm not really leaning either way right now. I do want to look for new armor, but I still don't know whether or not to go with resist or not :( I do appreciate everyone giving their opinions on the subject. All that keeps popping in my head is that the points that would be in resist could be useful in tower stats. Whether or not I should upgrade resist is still a blur to me.

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I'm not really leaning either way right now. I do want to look for new armor, but I still don't know whether or not to go with resist or not :( I do appreciate everyone giving their opinions on the subject. All that keeps popping in my head is that the points that would be in resist could be useful in tower stats. Whether or not I should upgrade resist is still a blur to me.


use inactive builders and put armour stats into tower only. use a DPS or hybrid char and put armour oints into resists.
with buff beams theres not really a reason to keep a builder out. Surviving is worth mre than having the bonus. from what im told, if you die the bonus is gone.

I would just put points into tower stat only for a builder. and have a different char on the field that can stay alive and deal some extra damage to mobs.

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if your build or set up allows you to be safe mid wave w/o good resistances then keep th builder out. If not, as lourish said keep a dps character out. putting upgrades into resistance is points yuo could have put into more damage for towers..

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There are several pros and cons to an active builder. Mind you this is mostly subjective from personal experience.
Pros
Higher Damage from the Tower Type out across the map.
The ability to rebuild destroyed/desummoned defenses in combat
-Able to reinforce a choke by summoning extra defenses (provided there is spare DU)
For Timed missions, saves a lot of time/headache trying to complete waves before the defenses are completely set up
-Less downside to being caught in combat (for timed missions)

Cons
Generally Harder to Gear up
Generally able to contribute less to a single choke if no free DU
Less flexibility late Survival
Significance of the bonus will depend on the build, so building to take advantage of the bonus may hinder your build

Personally, the headache of finding gear for an active Builder set that didn't completely blow far outweighed the benefit of the additional damage. As my preferences tend to favor survival over campaign missions or challenges, and the large impact Buff beams have had to that type, it is very difficult to find defenses to move around without destroying buff beams to gain the full impact of an active builder. Unless the map heavily favors one specific type of tower, it's not as huge a bonus. For example, if you have an active builder Countess/Squire out, but there are only 4 harpoon turrets on the map, it is not much help. Map size is also a factor.
With a dedicated hero character it is easier to move outside the protection of the base if something is being stupid around a corner, or something was placed slightly wrong and a desummon is occurring. A DPS hero done right is kinda like a roaming Tower. You will lose some to a lot of benefit for not having an active builder, but you gain a lot of utility, thus the trade off.
As stated before, it makes gearing up less of a chore, which can help you progress faster than you would otherwise expect.

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I think its based on how you play and how many people you play with. Which means there are a ton of, 'ifs' to answer your question.

If you solo.
Resists.

If you duo.
Full Tower.

If you play public games.
Resists

So on and so forth.

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The sharken have antiquated the use of active builders. The only combatant for them is a smorgasbord of defenses crammed onto buff beams. With the variety comes a lack of majority, meaning that at most one character should be responsible for ~ 40% of defenses, generously. Prior to sharken and buff beams the squire (or apprentice) would build at least 60% of the towers, and often much more. During that time, and active builder was likely most effective, and a necessity in late wave NMHC Survival with four players.
That is no longer the case. The active builder is a thing of the past because builds lack the majority of towers being constructed by one builder. If you left a building squire in with only 30% of the DU being boosted you're setting yourself up for a very ineffective and boring run in the combat phase. Especially with the squire, as he has no range, and his invisible stats are garbage as support. The only active builders currently useful are hybrid monks and huntresses. They both have towers that can really help in a pinch, have range, and other naturally supportive characteristics. They are still better to be dedicated builders, though.
My point is that you're much better off with a dedicated support character over an active builder (at least currently). Instead of wondering whether to put resists on builders (don't, obviously) you may want to consider putting in minimal effort to make sure that your field character's towers are at least usable in a pinch. My roommate plays a DPS huntress (ick, i know). His towers stats 800+ in damage and RoF coincidentally. His AoE and tower hp are <100. Several times we've needed either a gas trap or a prox, but those two stats having almost nothing renders all his towers useless. If they were even 400+ in every stat they would be effective enough to hold us over for the next build phase, but they are not. I highly recommend being aware of this, as it is easy to avoid negative stats, and fun to find sets that really fit your needs.
I hope this helps. I debated over this for a long time, and when I switched out of the active builder the game really opened up for me. Feel free to PM me with any specific questions or further advice.

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I see. So what I'm getting is that active builders are a thing of the past as buff beams are now put into use. Unfortunately, I don't even have the EV DLC yet, but I doubt that would be a problem as everyone has EVs. I understand that active builders are pretty much rendered useless after building and that having a dps out would really help in terms of defense. I guess my hunt for active builder pieces are a thing of the past. I think I am convinced that my main builder (squire/appren <-- if I'm bored) should go fully w/o resist. I might save my resist tower set for a traptress or an aura monk then.

Any thoughts of like partial resist, i.e. resist in general damage? Or is that obsolete as well?

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I go with as little resist/hp as I can. Any more than needed is a waste, and makes for lazier play.

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I don't use an active builder anymore. My builds typically incorperate equal amounts of App., EV, Monk, Huntress, and Squire towers. I build my Monk Hybrid, so he's the one out upgrading and what not w/ his Djinni petbut if I had a builder out (unless I was split-screening), it would only buff ~20% of the defensive structures.

For example, my Misty build incorperates: Tower App., Tower Squire, Tower HP EV, Traptress, Hybrid Monk auras, and a Tower HP App. (walls for blocking spiders). The Monk goes around repairing, upgrading, and buffing all defensive structure w/ his aura.

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I thought I'd add to Hakk's comments, based on some playing around I did today.

If you don't have the EV, get it. If you're serious about this game, it's essential for late nightmare survival farming.
That being said, a monk with good tower boost, high HP and 90 generic resist is more effective than an active builder. You boost by a lot more than 30% (100+ is easy to achieve). Sure, it's not across the map, but you'll generally find a build only struggles in one place at a time, especially on survival.
A DPS ranger with trap skills (500s across the board is fine) is great for replacing gas on the fly, especially in cliffs.

I used an active builder at low levels, where having a geared up team of characters was harder. These days, all my DPS characters can live through most maps to the end; the monk is still the most badass, although can be a little squishy outside str drain in mixmode. I'd advise against a hybrid monk, and say go full dps with a seahorse. You can throw out some crazy numbers, even with low stats and a seahorse from insane.

And yes, I'd always say up your generic resistance to 90 in the taver for all builders, and avoid negative HP gear. You can be caught out, especially in challenges, and being alive is good. Hide in a str drain and upgrade if necessary, but at least you're contributing.

Finally, on that note, I've started to use tower seahorses for builder pets. Monkeys and djinn also work. Get some with decent tower stats and just up the damage a bit. Even with low hero damage, a 100^ pet can keep ninjas and spiders off your back while you build, and lets you have a strong tower weapon instead.

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I have seen very solid builds on aqua moraggo whit only 2 poons on all map, since u are able to do that, on those cases active builder is just useless. Now if u want a simple sugestion do it on this way. Normally someone start to build the squire then when u find a better piece u replace and lend the old sq piece to the aura or traps and so on. So if u get a piece whit 100-200 whit good stats, just ignore resist and upgrade stats all the way.You should consider the initial resist if u find a piece whit full/big neg resist, then just ugrade stats, but if u buy/find a really nice piece whit 230-310 u should upgrade resist since u will have lots of spare points for stats. Then u can build active builder, its always good to gear active builder because is usefull on some maps or maybe it will on the next maps. According whit the number of upgrades and initials resist u will figure it out if the piece will be for active or inactive builder. Hope this info usefull

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Well the thing is, for tower gear, I've never seen a piece where I can cap out all of the tower stats. The current piece I have can cap tower damage but it would still need points in tower attack rate, etc. I think I'm set on just going all tower stats for my builder and pushing the gear I have now off (which has decent tower stats+resist) to a traptress or something when I find better gear.

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A) Whether you have buff beams or not shouldnt affect whether you have the builder active. 33% bonus damage is going to be combined with the BB so you get it either way.

B) With the current trend towards builder diversity on end game maps, active builder is going to be outclassed by DPS and/or monk boosts in most cases. However, quite a few of the original maps and the monsterfests play more into 1 class of DPS towers + support (in the case of mosterfests, a boost monk would still win though :demon:).

So, NM campaign players = full on resists b/c of the likely quality of DPS characters dosent make up for it and the tendency to have one good set and then the rest. Late game survivals is more about pet DPS and boosts (both of which, stupidly, monk is miles ahead on), but main builder still needs some HP/resists for the occasions when he isnt away (eg. first combat phase of UMF's).

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Do both! I'm currently running solo aquanos but doing it split screen with my squire hanging out blocking while my barbarian kills ogres. More mobs, more treasure, more money, and he's leveling to 83 like a madman! It's also a good way to influence the weapon drops you get if you can find a safe place for your 2nd character. The dps boost for the harpoons is nice. I'll level my monk to 83 the same way if I can find a safe spot for him!

Off topic : The experience on aquanos nmhc survival is pretty damn amazing. This one run got him from 78 to 80 and I'm still only on wave 25 (started at 13). I'm also getting about 120 million mana per wave. Not to mention dual seahorses and possibly dual giraffe!

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