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Barbarian Class just falling behind at the moment


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Well, i am not sure how many people play Barb but the way i see it Barbarians are not very useful at the moment.

I mean with the new seahorse pets doing 1.5-2m dps and some even more than that, it is enough dps to just equip the seahorse and not bother using the Barb.

My barb stats are pretty decent, i don't recall all the stats but HP and hero damage, 1800/2200/....

My barb does about 2.7m dps and for example on aquanos survival, turtle stance and siphon on, i am in the middle of a group of mobs, when all of a sudden my turtle stance decides to go off. Less than a second later i am dead.

Not sure what is going on with that since i was full of mana and siphon was also up yet i got dropped in the blink of an eye.

Now don't get me wrong i am not talking about running into a crowd of 200 mobs ( even though that is exactly what the barb is for ), i am talking about 30-40 mobs at best.

That is just one example of what goes on when playing the Barb.

Apart from some of the class mechanics, ie siphon stance and turtle stance, not really being that effective for the barb, i feel the barbarian is way under powered compared to some of the other classes.

The damage the Barbarian does right now even with the increases that Trendy has added just don't make it enough for the Barb to be useful.

So i switched gear and gave my monk all my Barb gear and did a quick respec.
I ran into a crowd of 50 or so mobs, hit 'hero boost' and now my monk is doing 3 times the damage the monk normally does, so from 700k dps to 2.1m dps and i have not even added the damage the seahorse is doing which with hero boost on is about 3.3m dps.

So in total i am looking at around 5m dps for the monk melee. Ok given the fact you need mana for hero boost to be on to be able to do that and well so does turtle and siphon stance, so that makes things kind of even. They both need mana yet the class that is meant to be a melee class is left way behind in dps.

The state in which the Barbarian is right now has made the class totally useless in my opinion.

Barbarian needs a major revamp or something because it is seriously way under par compared to other classes especially since it is meant to be the melee class.

Barbarian needs to be looked at again because as it stands, right now i bet 90% of the players that have a geared Barb have him gathering dust in the corner.

I am not sure how many people play the Barbarian class at the moment, i would like to hear peoples' opinion that actually play the barb.

Sorry for the long read, i hope my post is clear enough to make sense with the examples stated above.

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My barb has 2k health n hero dmg and you know points into turtle and siphon effect on how much they work. To me it just sounds like your not very skilled with the barb because I have no issues and I hardly use turtle and siphon now. Right now I'm doing 5.2mil with hawk stance which is very helpful.

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The thing is the Barbarian is a solely DPS class, Turtle stance alone makes it a better and more reliable DPS class as it gains huge damage resistance and an immunity to spiders.

The problem is not really with the Barbarian, it is with the balance of Hero DPS in general. In late wave survival no one is willing to take their hero out into the fray as you die too fast even properly geared which means tower builders and classes offering support abilities like the monk's tower boost are all that gets used.

The other problem is, if they start buffing the abilities of hero's spec'd for DPS adding more players will quite rapidly make the game very easy as unlike towers there is nothing like DU to limit the maximum effectiveness of adding more DPS characters.

This is also the reason why I am so concerned about the fact no one has confirmed whether the summoners summons use DU yet. If they don't you potentially have another Barbarian class who's potential has to be restricted by the fact it doesn't drain the primary limiting resource.

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My barb has 2k health n hero dmg and you know points into turtle and siphon effect on how much they work. To me it just sounds like your not very skilled with the barb because I have no issues and I hardly use turtle and siphon now. Right now I'm doing 5.2mil with hawk stance which is very helpful.


Agreed. The best part about Barb is that he is a tank (just like the squire or countess), but with an extra stat sword option. His maximum hero point potential is much higher than the other tanks. You can reach 4k+ in a given hero category on the barb, where your squire or countess will top out at around 3.4k (not counting accessories in either scenario). When used correctly, he can be the best. Unfortunately he is not easy to use. I struggle with him so I tend to stick with my countess for her speed.

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The thing is the Barbarian is a solely DPS class, Turtle stance alone makes it a better and more reliable DPS class as it gains huge damage resistance and an immunity to spiders.

The problem is not really with the Barbarian, it is with the balance of Hero DPS in general. In late wave survival no one is willing to take their hero out into the fray as you die too fast even properly geared which means tower builders and classes offering support abilities like the monk's tower boost are all that gets used.

The other problem is, if they start buffing the abilities of hero's spec'd for DPS adding more players will quite rapidly make the game very easy as unlike towers there is nothing like DU to limit the maximum effectiveness of adding more DPS characters.

This is also the reason why I am so concerned about the fact no one has confirmed whether the summoners summons use DU yet. If they don't you potentially have another Barbarian class whos potential has to be limite dby the fact it doesn't drain the primarylimiting resource.



I agree and i think you understood my post/point.

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My barb has 2k health n hero dmg and you know points into turtle and siphon effect on how much they work. To me it just sounds like your not very skilled with the barb because I have no issues and I hardly use turtle and siphon now. Right now I'm doing 5.2mil with hawk stance which is very helpful.



My hawk stance does over 7 or 8m, so what is your point?

Hawk stance has a cooldown and if you decide to use that without turtle and siphon on... on for example let's say aquanos wave 25 survival on a nice gentle ogre that has 30-35m HP, while you have mobs rushing you at the same time then you won't survive 10 seconds.

If you hardly use turtle and siphon then you have hardly been in situations where your barb depended on his class abilities and dps which shows me how 'skilled' you are indeed. [sacasm off] :)

My monk will drop that ogre in less than 5 seconds and guess what, i can respec him and use him for towers.

The barb on the other hand can um... oh wait, thats the only thing the barb can do....so he must be top notch melee dps with nice class skills... well no the barb isnt as it happens, not the way he is right now.

You're missing the whole point.

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I agree and i think you understood my post/point.


I agree with what Lordraviel said too, but you in no way posed this same question/thought in your post. You only talked about how your Barb is not a very good DPS character and how your Monk had higher DPS than your Barb. I get that in late-wave survival the usefulness of DPS chars quickly becomes more of a burden than assistance, but this is not what you were talking about.

To quote (and surmise):

Barbarian needs a major revamp or something because it is seriously way under par compared to other classes especially since it is meant to be the melee class.

Barbarian needs to be looked at again because as it stands, right now i bet 90% of the players that have a geared Barb have him gathering dust in the corner.


I disagree with him not being a viable DPS char. He is still very viable and can tank Assault runs no problem. He also is useful in nightmare campaign as his hawk stance does huge amounts of damage against bosses. I stick with my original post in regards to this.

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This is also the reason why I am so concerned about the fact no one has confirmed whether the summoners summons use DU yet. If they don't you potentially have another Barbarian class whos potential has to be limite dby the fact it doesn't drain the primarylimiting resource.


Trendy said a few weeks ago that the summons DO use du... It's in a digest

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Trendy said a few weeks ago that the summons DO use du... It's in a digest


See I rembered seeing that and couldnt find it. What has created confusion is the screenshot in the last digest showing 0 DU used and when questioned in the live stream Ice Arrow couldn't confirm they used DU but his response seemed base donly on seeing that screenshot.

Given Ice Arrow's primary job is Tech Support and the screenshot was almost certainly from testing as the summoner was 83 with almost no Experience I am confident that they will use DU but not certain.

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I agree with what Lordraviel said too, but you in no way posed this same question/thought in your post. You only talked about how your Barb is not a very good DPS character and how your Monk had higher DPS than your Barb. I get that in late-wave survival the usefulness of DPS chars quickly becomes more of a burden than assistance, but this is not what you were talking about.

To quote (and surmise):



I disagree with him not being a viable DPS char. He is still very viable and can tank Assault runs no problem. He also is useful in nightmare campaign as his hawk stance does huge amounts of damage against bosses. I stick with my original post in regards to this.


From his reply which i tend to agree with i can see that he did understand my post. Now if i was to make a million other points, i can go on till the cows come home.

However i did not want to go into that since i made this thread specifically for the barb.
I didnt want to veer off subject.

As for my point again using your own words,

[QUOTE]I get that in late-wave survival the usefulness of DPS chars quickly becomes more of a burden than assistance, but this is not what you were talking about.
[/QUOTE]

yes the barb becomes exactly that a burden and not very useful dps wise, where as the monk for example does just fine.

That ' is ' the exact point of this thread.

I made a simple example as stated in my original thread to make a point, and from reading your post you obviously did not get that point.

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Barbarians are still quite useful as a dps class. I agree with the poster that said you're not very skilled. I can't even remember the last time I died with my barbarian. Your turtle stance just goes off? It starts ticking for more and more mana the longer its on, put more points into it to last longer. Equip a genie if you're running out of mana. You'd be surprised how much more effective as a tank you are with it. If you want the dps, switch to a seahorse.

It does need a bit of a revamp, but not because of that. I suggest you fight ogres in strength drain auras like a good boy and use your monk effectively WITH your barbarian.

More barbarian buffs would always be nice though. Hopefully they listen to you and not to me though. Barbarians are fine.

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Barbarians are still quite useful as a dps class. I agree with the poster that said you're not very skilled. I can't even remember the last time I died with my barbarian. Your turtle stance just goes off? It starts ticking for more and more mana the longer its on, put more points into it to last longer. Equip a genie if you're running out of mana. You'd be surprised how much more effective as a tank you are with it. If you want the dps, switch to a seahorse.

It does need a bit of a revamp, but not because of that. I suggest you fight ogres in strength drain auras like a good boy and use your monk effectively WITH your barbarian.

More barbarian buffs would always be nice though. Hopefully they listen to you and not to me though. Barbarians are fine.


[QUOTE] It starts ticking for more and more mana the longer its on, put more points into it to last longer.[/QUOTE]

Really? i had no idea....

[QUOTE]I can't even remember the last time I died with my barbarian.[/QUOTE]

Which makes me presume that you don't play it enough to see my point at all, and the point of the thread was simple.
Since you seem to be lacking a bit, i'll make it simple for you.

monk melee dps > barb melee dps.

Monk is versatile and can build great towers too, barb cannot, barb is meant to be melee dps class only, having said that, Barb should be a better melee dps since he cannot do anything else, he was made 'purely' for melee dps yet the monk out dps's the barb... its not rocket science kido..

[QUOTE]It does need a bit of a revamp, but not because of that[/QUOTE]

I see, please enlighten us ...

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My hawk stance does over 7 or 8m, so what is your point?

Hawk stance has a cooldown and if you decide to use that without turtle and siphon on... on for example let's say aquanos wave 25 survival on a nice gentle ogre that has 30-35m HP, while you have mobs rushing you at the same time then you won't survive 10 seconds.

If you hardly use turtle and siphon then you have hardly been in situations where your barb depended on his class abilities and dps which shows me how 'skilled' you are indeed. [sacasm off] :)

My monk will drop that ogre in less than 5 seconds and guess what, i can respec him and use him for towers.

The barb on the other hand can um... oh wait, thats the only thing the barb can do....so he must be top notch melee dps with nice class skills... well no the barb isnt as it happens, not the way he is right now.

You're missing the whole point.


I'm not missing any points. I've been in those situations and have gotten to those waves solo. When soloing, my one and only focus is ogres, everything else gets taken care of. Hawk has a very short cool down and I kill the ogre most of the time before the next one comes out. Again, I hardly use turtle or siphon still on those waves. So I know the situation, again your just probably not as skilled with him as I am.

Barb is THE tank/dps character and he does it well. If I'm not dying in those situations and you are, CLEARLY you have the stats but not the skill.

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I'm not missing any points. I've been in those situations and have gotten to those waves solo. When soloing, my one and only focus is ogres, everything else gets taken care of. Hawk has a very short cool down and I kill the ogre most of the time before the next one comes out. Again, I hardly use turtle or siphon still on those waves. So I know the situation, again your just probably not as skilled with him as I am.


Well i am happy to hear that you are skilled, i'll be sure to throw you a few cookies next time i pass by.
I am not talking about any situation, that situation was an 'example', that is all it was. The bigger picture is what i was trying to explain...yet you seem to be stuck on that example still...
It was just that, an example..

Sadly you seem to be missing the point 'again', and since you still have not grassped the fact.

i'll make it simple for you.

Monk melee with pet x does more dps than Barb with pet x.

Can't put it simpler than that. This should not be the case because Barb is meant to be the melee dps class and 'should' outshine any other class melee wise.

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i would like to see the barbarian do better dps... i mean he is the only strictly dps charcter and usually isn't the best option



Wow someone actually read and understood my point. Thank god someone is reading the point i tried to make without getting his E-peen into the picture, unlike some replies i have gotten :)

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Monk melee with pet x does more dps than Barb with pet x.

Can't put it simpler than that. This should not be the case because Barb is meant to be the melee dps class and 'should' outshine any other class melee wise.


It does outshine other MELEE classes. Unless your blind to see you keep adding pets and abilities into the situation. Melee alone should beat the monk. Barb melee is better then monk melee. Adding not additional abilities, Barb wins and is superior. Adding Hero boost and pets go against your fact of saying "Barb is meant to be the melee dps class" when he clearly is, just monks ability is what makes him go past him when without it, he doesn't come close. So with abilities and pets, yes the monk probably does beat the Barb. But that's not all Melee. So overall he can put out more damage with his hero boost and pet, but his survivablity isn't as great as with the barb is.

So in the end HE IS the superior melee class before you add additional factors into it. And as an added note, last time me and a friend checked, (without any abilities and same gear on characters) a pet does more damage on monk then other characters. Probably a bug in the game that Trendy doesn't know about unless they fixed it recently.

EDIT: If your going into this, then Squire beats him as well with rage and circular slash.

EDIT 2: Just did that pet test again, no gear and all 3 characters with the same pet and in tavern. 3117 on Barb, 3063 on App, and 4237 on Monk.

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It does outshine other MELEE classes. Unless your blind to see you keep adding pets and abilities into the situation. Melee alone should beat the monk. Barb melee is better then monk melee. Adding not additional abilities, Barb wins and is superior. Adding Hero boost and pets go against your fact of saying "Barb is meant to be the melee dps class" when he clearly is, just monks ability is what makes him go past him when without it, he doesn't come close. So with abilities and pets, yes the monk probably does beat the Barb. But that's not all Melee. So overall he can put out more damage with his hero boost and pet, but his survivablity isn't as great as with the barb is.

So in the end HE IS the superior melee class before you add additional factors into it. And as an added note, last time me and a friend checked, (without any abilities and same gear on characters) a pet does more damage on monk then other characters. Probably a bug in the game that Trendy doesn't know about unless they fixed it recently.



Well yes and no. Yes without abilities he is better of course he is but that is not really true given all the things that NEED to be factored in to make it a comparison. We are not in a situation to say that, yes he beats it without using this or without using that, this isn't a hypothetical situation.

i am talking about the way it is nothing more nothing less, simply put the barb to the best of his abilities and yes with a pet, that's the way the game was meant to be so let's not take things out of the picture to prove the point. The point is with all the givens, as in their best abilities, the monk outshines the barb in a field where the barb should be way ahead.

That IS my whole point. If we are going to get into specifics about yes we can use that and no don't use the pet, then we are not being realistic rather more hypothetical, if we start to allow and not allow things for that class to be used then we can discuss things till 2020.

But realistically, the barb using all his best abilities vs the monk to his best abilities in a field where the barb was made just for melee dps as opposed to another class that can do other things loses in a MELEE dps race.

This should not be the case at all. That makes the barb class underpar since its bread and butter being 'melee dps' and is beaten by a class that not only beats his melee dps but can also be used for other things.

That was the whole point of my making a thread for this and i think very much like yourself the barb has his uses. For me overall i just don't feel that the Barb class should lose to any other class when it comes down to melee dps and not in a hypothetical situation but realistically 'ingame' situations he loses.

[QUOTE]EDIT: If your going into this, then Squire beats him as well with rage and circular slash.

EDIT 2: Just did that pet test again, no gear and all 3 characters with the same pet and in tavern. 3117 on Barb, 3063 on App, and 4237 on Monk. [/QUOTE]

Exactly ! my point is if barb can ONLY melee then why is he getting beaten by other classes that DO have other important uses.

Barb does not have the luxury of that so in effect fully geared and a good pet, stricly speaking melee dps
he loses to other classes that aren't primarily made for melee? That is all i was trying to explain. This should not be the case.

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Hawk stance has a cooldown and if you decide to use that without turtle and siphon on... on for example let's say aquanos wave 25 survival on a nice gentle ogre that has 30-35m HP, while you have mobs rushing you at the same time then you won't survive 10 seconds.


That segment left me feeling pretty confident you don't play your barbarian enough to understand the class for a fairly simple reason.

You can't use hawk strike with turtle and siphon. Same way you can't use battle leap/pound.



That aside; correct, barbarians can not handle a wave 25 ogre alone in melee, but I hate to break it to you: no class can. A squire can block for a long *** time but its only a matter of time until that fails them.

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Barbarian has very good surviveability in tough situations. He is superior for clog killing.
That is the only areas he currently beats a dps monk though. His dmg is still too low in latewave survival.

My monk outputs more than 4 million dmg a sec with pet and hero boost. He kills a 20million hp ogre in 5sec.
He is just mythical. With trans/supreme and a seahorse it would be WAY higher. Adding tower boost the dmg output is even higher.

He is also a lot faster than barb. His tower boost is very good for repairing auras. +He does ranged damage.
With 2k+ stats he has 290k life and close to maxres in nightmare. More than enough to survive in endgame survival.

I always played my barbarian in survival but since I started playing dps monk I haven't touched my barb....

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my barb isnt even geared anymore stil lhas wepons on him but the armour went nicly onto my munk as for turtle syphon i very rarly had to use that but when i did one mistake can end in desaster if turtle ends before syphon what ever hits u next will kill u syphon lowers ur res to basicly 0 the more points in it the less res u have when using it if ur using it 90% of the time u really havent got the gear on it for what ur using it for. My barb can do late wave savival if i chose infact combining my barb with my friends munk and walah 50mil hp ogers die in 3 hawks (if our seahouses havent killed it after the first one ) most builds these days have all walls covered with strength drain so really syphon is not needed nor is turtle. S ounds to me abit like ur traeling away from the defences towards spawns in late wave savival which isnt realy the smartest idea. You might beableto get away with that on aqua though if u use a set up simular to mine with 2.8k in aura range almost the whole map is covered

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Barbarian has very good surviveability in tough situations. He is superior for clog killing.
That is the only areas he currently beats a dps monk though. His dmg is still too low in latewave survival.

My monk outputs more than 4 million dmg a sec with pet and hero boost. He kills a 20million hp ogre in 5sec.
He is just mythical. With trans/supreme and a seahorse it would be WAY higher. Adding tower boost the dmg output is even higher.

He is also a lot faster than barb. His tower boost is very good for repairing auras. +He does ranged damage.
With 2k+ stats he has 290k life and close to maxres in nightmare. More than enough to survive in endgame survival.

I always played my barbarian in survival but since I started playing dps monk I haven't touched my barb....



yep, i am at that point too, hence why i thought i would open a thread about it and see what people think.

[QUOTE]
That segment left me feeling pretty confident you don't play your barbarian enough to understand the class for a fairly simple reason.

You can't use hawk strike with turtle and siphon. Same way you can't use battle leap/pound.

[/QUOTE]

i was using an extreme example there to make a point irrelevant of the stances/skills ..

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I've gone the opposite way. Used to use a monk, now use a barbarian.

Used to use a monk. It's fun. 9m DPS in Nightmare, as close as I can tell, pet and hero combined. 180 seahorse, 1900 stats, meh weapon. That's boosted.

Barbarian is fun, especially with two ice swords, or two rapiers, katanas, or whatever. Tornado goes so fast you almost get the same DPS with it on and off.

But I started playing around with weapons. All I can tell you is, get two really big hammers, and use tornado and hawk.
Tornado when you're just bashing trash. Faster swing speed, slightly less damage.
Hawk for ogres (battle leap to them to turn off stances, then hawk immediately). If you can encourage a monk friend to boost you, so much the better.

As for survivability, both do fine. I can kill ogres with either all the way up to wave 30 on aqua in toe to toe melee.

tl;dr Mostly play duo+. Solo would probably stick with monk.

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The thing is the Barbarian is a solely DPS class, Turtle stance alone makes it a better and more reliable DPS class as it gains huge damage resistance and an immunity to spiders.

The problem is not really with the Barbarian, it is with the balance of Hero DPS in general. In late wave survival no one is willing to take their hero out into the fray as you die too fast even properly geared which means tower builders and classes offering support abilities like the monk's tower boost are all that gets used.

The other problem is, if they start buffing the abilities of hero's spec'd for DPS adding more players will quite rapidly make the game very easy as unlike towers there is nothing like DU to limit the maximum effectiveness of adding more DPS characters.

This is also the reason why I am so concerned about the fact no one has confirmed whether the summoners summons use DU yet. If they don't you potentially have another Barbarian class who's potential has to be restricted by the fact it doesn't drain the primary limiting resource.


On the wiki it says that they use out of 100 monster points or some such, so we should be able to use them on top of out current builds

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Ouch. Saying I probably don't use a barbarian often. I use the barbarian primarily. As in, I bust out all my builders, make my setup and then use the barbarian for the rest of the map. The barbarian has the mobility and yes, the damage, to take down ogres. Why would you think it doesn't? And as for taking out an ogre alone away from str drain auras, well guess what... it's probably the only class that can do it without getting webbed and destroyed. Late wave survival aquanos, any time you deal with an ogre you're dealing with about 5-10 ninjas as well. Not a problem for my barb.

Rome, I think that YOU don't use the barbarian often enough. You've already moved on to the flavor of the month monk. Just know that if you put both classes next to each other and the monk uses his hero boost, that the barbarian will do far more damage than monk will if similarly geared. That's the revamp that I think the barbarian needs. Skill 1 is a mix of two skills that see very little use. Very few people use Lightning stance. Change one or the other for a boost of sorts and voila, melee dps that can be on par.

The barbarian shines because he's unkillable. A rock that you need for a 20+ survival run. Hell I used him to solo the aquanos boss on NMHC when the other 3 people died in the first minute.

HE......JUST........WON'T......DIE! (if you play him right)

I like the buffs we just got. I feel that it made the class play much better. We just need to fix up some stances and/or Skill 1 and then it can be the new flavor of the month and everyone will come running back.

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