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What exactly is a Token?


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Iv been going to shop recently and people say they want # tokens for an item and say my fully upgrades ret 243/243 is worth 600m and i just leave -_-

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A token is a way for players to get around the mana cap of 2 billion.

You basically take an item and upgrade it until it's worth 200 million (or 400 or 600) and they are then used as currency. Note that you also lose mana when making them, as it typically takes betweeen 260 and 280 million to make a 200 million token. You lose more when making a 400m token and a lot more when making a 600m token.

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A quick use of the "search" option with the phrase "mana token" quickly reveals many options. This one included:

http://forums.trendyent.com/showthread.php?42808-Saving-Mana-with-Weapons-A-How-To-Guide&highlight=mana+token

The guides section is a great place for how-to and questions like that. Also, the search function (contrary to popular belief) works quite well. I think Google has ruined out culture though, in that most people will give up looking after one page of results.

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A token is an object that the community has created and ruins DD economy and is why Trendy doesn't provide them or raise the mana cap.

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I don't think you can really blame the community and tokens for ruining the economy. When you can farm billions of mana in a few hours and it takes so much longer to find a good piece of trans or supreme gear, do you think people are just going to price it at 3x or 4x vendor (that is, if they don't keep it for their own use)?

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I don't think you can really blame the community and tokens for ruining the economy. When you can farm billions of mana in a few hours and it takes so much longer to find a good piece of trans or supreme gear, do you think people are just going to price it at 3x or 4x vendor (that is, if they don't keep it for their own use)?


Yes I can blame them because the community is what created the tokens and Trendy has said themselves that they don't raise cap for many reasons.

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Don't make tokens, and don't buy gear. If you think something is ruining the game, stop taking part.


This, too. Smmething I was kind of thinking about too.. I was wondering if anyone ever actually cashes in their tokens. I mean trading plain old mana for items, you can obviously put the mana into upgrading your current gear. But I doubt many people ever cash in their tokens which in a sense really does make them worthless.

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I don't think you can really blame the community and tokens for ruining the economy. When you can farm billions of mana in a few hours and it takes so much longer to find a good piece of trans or supreme gear, do you think people are just going to price it at 3x or 4x vendor (that is, if they don't keep it for their own use)?


You are slightly right. You can't blame the community for tokens ruining the economy. Because it wasn't the tokens. It was the community. The players that are greedy enough to ask for between 1,000% and 10,000% profit , or more, on items is what ends up making most game economies go a bit crazy. Though it isn't just the greedy people that get that happening, it's the people that pay the prices and end up keeping things being over expensive.

It seems that some people that have basically only invested about 20 million into an item expect to get 600 million back. Then when people actually pay the price, both the buyer and seller think that it's worth that much, and it wasn't.

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The players that are greedy enough to ask for between 1,000% and 10,000% profit , or more, on items is what ends up making most game economies go a bit crazy. Though it isn't just the greedy people that get that happening, it's the people that pay the prices and end up keeping things being over expensive.


Well, I think that Trendy needs to work on the drop rates for armor, which hopefully they can fix by making the summoner not drop any weapons (which I think they will since the forums have been begging for it).

But again, I am certainly nowhere near endgame and yet I can probably farm 2 billion mana from Shipwreck in under 2 hours. Do you think the players that do NM Aqua or Moraggo survival to completion and find a really good piece of armor maybe once every 3 or 4 runs should sell it to me for cheap just because the game says it's worth 10 million?

The prices the game says it's worth means nothing, imo.

And I do try keep the prices reasonable for the stuff I sell. I'll sell decent starter myth pieces for between 3 and 10 million (typically pieces with 100-150 in multiple tower stats and and around 130^ or so), because I think that's reasonable based on their drop rates and who I would be selling it to. But I can understand where the players are coming from when they sell the really good trans or supreme pieces for a ton of mana. Just because the game algorithm somehow decided that a trans piece with 300 in multiple tower stats and 250^ is worth 10 million doesn't make it so.

And 1000% profit doesn't sound to unreasonable to me. If you have any amazing supreme or trans pieces that the game values at 15 or 20 million, I will happily pay you 200 million for them. That's like what.... 15 minutes of work for me vs 5+ hours of work for you?

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I say take away floor drops. If you want people to sell stuff within any reasonable amount of time, it's through your AFK shop. If you essentially force people to sell things from their shop directly ( for a max of 600million mana ), you'll have item sales be cheaper across the board. yes you can still do public auctions and use forums, but that would be the slower method of making mana.

Honestly probably too late in the game now, piss a lot of people off with the change, but I honestly think it'd be better for the game.

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I say take away floor drops. If you want people to sell stuff within any reasonable amount of time, it's through your AFK shop. If you essentially force people to sell things from their shop directly ( for a max of 600million mana ), you'll have item sales be cheaper across the board. yes you can still do public auctions and use forums, but that would be the slower method of making mana.

Honestly probably too late in the game now, piss a lot of people off with the change, but I honestly think it'd be better for the game.


Completely agree and I've never bought or sold anything in this game with other people, not including the when I started. Bought 1 armor set for my App and the rest fell into place.

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take away floor drops? So within a few runs of any umf/omf etc you could have a full set of good trans...

it would take farming gear out the game

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To get rid of player made tokens, all trendy would have to do is decrease the traded value of armor, weapons, and pets by 90%. :)

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[QUOTE]Iv been going to shop recently and people say they want # tokens for an item and say my fully upgrades ret 243/243 is worth 600m and i just leave -_-[/QUOTE]The reason for it is simple. Unless they actually want to *use* your item, the most it is worth them is 600 million, because that's how much mana they'll get by vendoring it. Thus, instead of offering up items that are/were useful to you, most people farm items like ogre party hats or something else that can take a good number of upgrades and pump them full of mana.

[QUOTE]To get rid of player made tokens, all trendy would have to do is decrease the traded value of armor, weapons, and pets by 90%.[/QUOTE]Then every player who just bought something prior to this happening would be kicking themselves for doing it and complaining on the forums about it. It would be a moderator nightmare.

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take away floor drops? So within a few runs of any umf/omf etc you could have a full set of good trans...

it would take farming gear out the game


I think he meant Tavern floor drops, not level floor drops.

Then every player who just bought something prior to this happening would be kicking themselves for doing it and complaining on the forums about it. It would be a moderator nightmare.


Sorry man, comes with the job. They are essentially going around the system by using a flaw in the design. Most MMO producers would ban you for cheating. I would have no bad feelings for them.

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Then every player who just bought something prior to this happening would be kicking themselves for doing it and complaining on the forums about it. It would be a moderator nightmare.


If that's what you're worried about, then I would happily volunteer my services to forum clean up. :)

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Tokens are personally useful since you have no other way of saving up mana. Trading tokens for extortion rate items is annoying but hardly a bannable offense. Don't trade upgraded in-game items for other in-game items. Right ban that! ...

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Sorry man, comes with the job. They are essentially going around the system by using a flaw in the design. Most MMO producers would ban you for cheating. I would have no bad feelings for them.


So by your logic its a flaw in the design for me to trade my x item for your item because I am essentially going around the way the system works.

Or for me to trade my 9 items for your one item. By your logic I should sell my items, farm the rest of the mana and then you should be forced to sell me your item for the cap of 600million because thats what the game allows.

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So by your logic its a flaw in the design for me to trade my x item for your item because I am essentially going around the way the system works.

Or for me to trade my 9 items for your one item. By your logic I should sell my items, farm the rest of the mana and then you should be forced to sell me your item for the cap of 600million because thats what the game allows.


Precisely. If the most expensive, powerful, hard to get item in the game were 600 million, the lesser items would fall into place below that. Your tokens are artificially inflating the economy. Similar events have destroyed games in the past and I predict if something isn't done, it will this one too. In a game where items are a commodity the economy must be controlled. Though at the stage it's in, this game may be sliding down too fast to recover already.

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Precisely. If the most expensive, powerful, hard to get item in the game were 600 million, the lesser items would fall into place below that. Your tokens are artificially inflating the economy. Similar events have destroyed games in the past and I predict if something isn't done, it will this one too. In a game where items are a commodity the economy must be controlled. Though at the stage it's in, this game may be sliding down too fast to recover already.


I know I've said this before, but I'm going to say it again. I'm not endgame, but I am still at the point where 600 million mana is very easy to come by. That's less than 2 runs of shipwreck, or maybe 40 minutes of work.

On the other hand, a really amazing piece of supreme armor might only drop every few runs of Aquanos. That can be anywhere from 5 - 10 (maybe even more) hours. The best items in the game are worth a lot more than 600 million and the prices the game puts on them means jack.

And that being said, if I get to the point where I start having extra amazing trans/supreme stuff I'd rather give it to friends than attempt to auction and have to manage hundreds of tokens.

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I know I've said this before, but I'm going to say it again. I'm not endgame, but I am still at the point where 600 million mana is very easy to come by. That's less than 2 runs of shipwreck, or maybe 40 minutes of work.

On the other hand, a really amazing piece of supreme armor might only drop every few runs of Aquanos. That can be anywhere from 5 - 10 (maybe even more) hours. The best items in the game are worth a lot more than 600 million and the prices the game puts on them means jack.


Then it's up to trendy to adjust the value of a mana to make it higher. In this case, reduce the mana that drops or increase the cap. For the players to take this into their own hands is an exploitation of a flaw in the game design, which cascades out of control because nobody is regulating it.

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Then it's up to trendy to adjust the value of a mana to make it higher. In this case, reduce the mana that drops or increase the cap. For the players to take this into their own hands is an exploitation of a flaw in the game design, which cascades out of control because nobody is regulating it.


I would cut them slack on this one. Every idea that someone proposes to fix the economy is going to have holes in it. I'm not saying that I can do better either. I'm saying that fixing an economy, even if it's just in a video game, is actually really difficult.

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