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AmagicalFishy

How are people getting to Waves 20+ Survival

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Hey, folks.

Whenever I speak or read someone speaking of farming, there's always something along the lines of, "Oh, yeah. I've got these stats (lower than mine) and farm wave 25." Whenever I get to wave 20, I either get completely stomped or barely make it to wave 21. Everything before that is fairly easy.

Could my build be horrible or something? Is this a problem other people face, too? It seems very strange for it to work fine until the end, then suddenly be completely crushed; at the same time, I feel like looking up guies on exactly where to put what tower totally defeats the purpose of this game, so that's not for me.

Are there some fundamental game mechanics I'm missing?

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Hey, folks.

Whenever I speak or read someone speaking of farming, there's always something along the lines of, "Oh, yeah. I've got these stats (lower than mine) and farm wave 25." Whenever I get to wave 20, I either get completely stomped or barely make it to wave 21. Everything before that is fairly easy.

Could my build be horrible or something? Is this a problem other people face, too? It seems very strange for it to work fine until the end, then suddenly be completely crushed; at the same time, I feel like looking up guies on exactly where to put what tower totally defeats the purpose of this game, so that's not for me.

Are there some fundamental game mechanics I'm missing?

i'm assuming you're on the pc? on the console, loot on the ground isn't very good.
it's probably the theory behind survival. "get to a certain wave then use that gear that you looted
to get to an even higher wave, etc etc."

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What kind of build are you using? I get crushed on wave 20+ as well. Also if you aren't using an EV character to boost your towers, then that is a big issue. The ogres are the main issue I lose on wave 20-21. They come very fast. How are you dying?

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What kind of build are you using? I get crushed on wave 20+ as well. Also if you aren't using an EV character to boost your towers, then that is a big issue. The ogres are the main issue I lose on wave 20-21. They come very fast. How are you dying?


Ogre's should never be the reason you loose. If your build is good, ogre's will just run up against the wall all day and not doing anything. If they are attacking your walls, then your towers are too close to the wall. A harpoon and a fireball tower holds amazing aggro on the ogre's (with the harpoon piercing the ogre's and attacking a Desummoning Djinn or Charging Sharken that are on Low Hp after sittign in a gas trap stunned and taking damage from an electric aura.

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Getting past wave 20 is generally the hardest hurdle you'll face. It is normally a matter of your build not your stats. If you don't have a full roster of the 5 tower characters then you'll have a harder time.

Ideally you don't want your walls getting hit, like dragonmaster said, use towers to distract ogres from hitting your walls, and use combinations of towers that help you kill things before they smack your walls. Also need a clear line of sight on whereever sharken start their charge at your walls.

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Ogre's should never be the reason you loose. If your build is good, ogre's will just run up against the wall all day and not doing anything. If they are attacking your walls, then your towers are too close to the wall. A harpoon and a fireball tower holds amazing aggro on the ogre's (with the harpoon piercing the ogre's and attacking a Desummoning Djinn or Charging Sharken that are on Low Hp after sittign in a gas trap stunned and taking damage from an electric aura.


Maybe I am building my wall incorrectly because the ogres get around it for some reason. Earlier waves there is no issue, but on 20+ they get around it somehow. Not sure why.

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Its not sharken moving it? I find that often I need to dps or use tower boost to help kill off ogres in later waves if only to make sure the towers will target sharken when they come.

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It is definitely all about using the 5 different tower builders aspects together. Just using a squire or apprentice tower build will ALWAYS fail at high wives regardless of your stats. The monks auras and huntresses traps are just as important for late wave survival. Kandar seems to be the master of finding the right mix for survival, so I would look up some of his builds in the pc/console guide section. I think you'll find his builds enlightening as each DU serves to support the others.

I think once you give some of those builds whirl and begin to understand some of the nuances of builds you will find that getting to wave 25 isn't as hard as you might think. The guides section I mentioned is VASTLY underrated. If more players came to the forums in search of help through guides instead of whining about how unfair things are, I think you'd find a great deal more people reaching late waves (I'm not accusing you of whining, referring to other people in other threads).

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Maybe I am building my wall incorrectly because the ogres get around it for some reason. Earlier waves there is no issue, but on 20+ they get around it somehow. Not sure why.

Is that on multiple maps, or only one in particular?

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Hey, folks.

Whenever I speak or read someone speaking of farming, there's always something along the lines of, "Oh, yeah. I've got these stats (lower than mine) and farm wave 25." Whenever I get to wave 20, I either get completely stomped or barely make it to wave 21. Everything before that is fairly easy.

Could my build be horrible or something? Is this a problem other people face, too? It seems very strange for it to work fine until the end, then suddenly be completely crushed; at the same time, I feel like looking up guies on exactly where to put what tower totally defeats the purpose of this game, so that's not for me.

Are there some fundamental game mechanics I'm missing?

Post one of your builds using ddplanner.com so we can take a look. If your stats are good, a failed build normally means you need to improve it.

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My tower characters are between 1500-2000, and my builds are literally the difference between crashing and burning on wave 20 and breezing all the way to 25.

One tower placement can spell victory or defeat, using fireballs instead of harpoons, etc. I actually enjoy looking at others' builds and tweaking them based on my hero's stats. Right now my weakest builder is my Squire, so I supplement blockades with EV walls and harpoons with fireball and lightning towers. Works pretty well :)

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which maps are we talking about? because with that stats i easily AFK mixed mode magus quarters.

(AFK till wave 20 - then from wave 20 some snare repairs;..)

and an EV is the key, it's a bit harsh considering you have to pay in order to have a 'chance' in progressing through nightmare, but hey, its a fun game after all :)

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Is that on multiple maps, or only one in particular?


Dollars to donuts it's Deeper Wells and Hall of Court. Ogre pile ups tend to push one or two through on Wells and on the back steps of HoC.

My fix for DW was to start building my EV wall INSIDE the little stairway post stone thing and run it across to just in front of the rocks on the outside edge of the map. Haven't had any strays there since. Haven't devoted any time to HoC solution, sorry.

As for getting by 20: Gas traps at every busy choke, clear lines of site for Sharken, well grouped towers to maximize Buff Beam coverage, Ensnares at every choke, some form of spider defense. That spider defense can be beefy prox traps(my favorite), decked out lightning auras, well places turrets, whatever it you can make work. If snares cover your towers that helps too. And at ogre heavy chokes it's nice if you can get the buff beam to hit your walls as well.

Triple aura stack is amazing(snare/lightning/drain), especially when you can get it on a flight line and foot path. Best anti-air defense by far.

Also, if you have the option of running a DPS monk with high Tower Boost that really helps with the rushes.

In general the only things that should reach your walls with enough health to attack at all are Ogres(and as explained, they shouldn't be attacking). If other stuff is getting close regularly you need to make adjustments.

I prefer making my own builds as well, but if I'm, struggling I'll find someone's and tweak it to my strengths.


Final edit: If you can handle wave 14 no problem try using this little helper to emulate controls to add more characters.

http://forums.trendyent.com/showthread.php?55973-Better-XBOX-Controller-emulation

Getting 4 pets instead of 1 is a huge help. And I'm pretty sure you can just add them after the wave starts to get the pets without adding any monsters.

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Ogre's should never be the reason you loose.


Ogres can be a possible cause of losing since DPS towers prefer them over most of them other mobs, which in turn allows other mobs to beat your on walls (especially ninjas) whilst DPS towers are focusing on taking down their sometimes large health pool.

Gas traps are helpful, since you can stall them, combined with a Proxy trap will help you alot.

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I feel bad for lower-tier players trying to break past 20 in shards maps. Current builds require a lot of DU to be put into things like gas traps, strength drain, ensnare aura on every lane with buff beams, lest you have sharken and djinn messing with everything. When more veteran players were making the same progression, more DU could be spent on raw firepower to clear lanes. Newer players are forced to do more with less, so it is difficult, and for most maps there really is only one or two basic ways to build a map (yes there are dozens of iterations of that same basic build, but your traps/auras/turrets/walls are generally in the same places).

Some general tips include:

Make sure you are using tried and true builds, I highly recommend using Kandar builds to get a feel for how map-building works successfully.

Use a boost dps monk. It stacks with buff beams and guardians, and with a decent pet ogres will melt.

Use a controller or emulator and place a builder or two in a safe area. This gives you a 30% damage boost to those applicable towers.

Don't play with more than 2 people, as mob counts skyrocket, leaving you with very congested lanes that your defenses will have a harder time clearing up.

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ive only ever been able to get passed 20 in Aquanos by killing sharken that spawn in the same lane, and after ogres . if sharken spawn in the same lane where you have 1 or more ogre, you're likely to lose that wall from the sharken and get steam rolled by the ogres . because youre towers are going to be focusing the ogres while the sharken just line up behind them and own your walls . out side of that , spiders are my biggest concern, sneaky little *******s ..

tower stats :Squire 2900 attack and 1400 attack rate
waller stats : EV 1800 wall hp
traps and auras are around 1600 damage

oh and i clear the lane w/ my 2k barb and huntress guard . barb does about 3.5 mill dps .
i also use kandars builds ...

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The fact of the matter is that if your only slightly off with your tower positions it can be game over. You can no longer afk till wave 30, it does require you to get in front of your defenses and help out. This game is now balanced around buff beams and tower/hero boosts.

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Its not sharken moving it? I find that often I need to dps or use tower boost to help kill off ogres in later waves if only to make sure the towers will target sharken when they come.


Sharken don't cause me any issues with how many harpoons I have and the ensnare auras. And the wall doesn't move, I just notice the ogres on the other side, attacking it of course since they are on the spike side at that point.

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If I can stop accidentally diving into the lava, I'll be able to clear survival on the early levels in NM HC. My current record is 21 on magus quarters, but I only lose because I get pushed into the lava by an attack or do a backflip into it by mistake or something dumb like that and become unable to repair/burn down the ogres.

My active builder (app) stats (roughly):

~400/~400/~300/~600

~400 overcharge ~680 manabomb < this is actually important, and it covers like 3/4 of magus quarters)

~600/1100 exactly/500/~700

On Magus Quarters, I'm mostly using app towers and EV buff beams. The build I have works a lot better with gas traps and slow auras, but you can get pretty far without them if you're one of those people who absolutely can't bear to level another class. The stats on the monk/huntress don't have to be any good at all. Mine aren't even 74 yet (so no mythicals) and they fit the bill just fine.

First, I can't tell you how important mana bomb is right now if you're active on apprentice. It's like a reset button for all the non-ogres. If your mana bomb is high enough, it will likely vaporize most of the non-shard enemies, and stun/interrupt all the sharken/djinn on the map, and wipe out all the spiders (the most important part for me) Since the spiders now have a tenancy to spawn in clusters, I pop mana bomb whenever the spiders drop, and it's generally ready when more appear. I love mana bomb so much :D A decent mana bomb stat can really save your skin.

Once you pull this off, you'll be able to farm yourself giraffe stat sticks for your non-active builders, and then you'll finally break that early NM progression barrier.

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I also notice that Ogres tend to be able to magically phase through walls on waves 20+

Thanks for all the tips, guys. :D I've been tweaking my builds a little bit and am doing much better now.

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Alot of advice already given, but I thought id chime in..

If a build works from wave 1 all the way to 20, then I would say its a solid build - Only mob count and HP/Dmg changes wave to wave, there is nothing that happens at a certain wave that requires you to move some DU around, it is very linear in its difficulty, it just means one of a couple of things to what wave you get to.

Random ogre spawn location - maybe you are getting lucky/unlucky on a certain wave - obviously on previous waves (before they have larger HP boosts) your towers and own actions were enough to succeed.

or

Your just dont have the Tower DPS (encompasing all aspects) or/and Hero Dps to continue further.

There is also getting used to spawn cycles and knowing what is most important to do and when (this counts for so much imo).

Good advice on the tower / wall placements to deal with ogres, if you are not already doing this, but rather than try other builds, I would just tweak your own - its real easy to fall into a trap of not trying to come up with your own build, especially when you have one sat there which you know you can wave 30 with.

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