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Sharken Variable Wall Move based on EV Wall Stat?


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Keen's idea here, I'd +1 it. Would it be possible to factor in wall strength when sharkens move stuff?

e.g. a 500 HP wall would move much more than a 3500+ HP wall when a sharken barrels into it.

It'd at least take a little frustration out of the result of sharkens' damage given the effort and time/mana it has cost some of us to make our EV wallers really strong. :)

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No Sharken code in DDDK, so I can't confirm exactly how it works, but perhaps add something like

"Push distance *= (Sharken's base damage / Defense's current HP) * (some balancing figure to make it closer to current push distance at low stats)"

So the lower the health of your towers, the easier they are to push, and conversely towers with huge hp totals don't get pushed much at all? With what I suggested, any defense that the sharken can't one-shot would have a decreased push distance from the base, but if the sharken would be better off attacking it it'd go flying.

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Yes! That would be a huge improvement imo. Essentially use HP as a measure of molecular density of the wall = greater weight.

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only helps the Elite players with massive stats.. us regular players that are struggling to get gear upgrades will still have major problems

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only helps the Elite players with massive stats.. us regular players that are struggling to get gear upgrades will still have major problems


That would depend entirely upon how they balanced it. If they balanced it well, people geared properly for the content would probably see small but noticeable benefit from their health, people undergeared would suffer, and people overgeared would be overgeared as always.

As it stands, it's not too hard to make a dedicated wall builder who has only tower health, and has it quite a bit higher than all your other stats, so it *should* typically be beneficial to everyone. Right now a large part of the way up, tower health isn't as important as getting damage done, because you can kill many things before they even do any damage, and killing an ogre 10% faster is the same as your towers having proportionally more health, except that some of that damage gets done before they even get to your towers, helping even more. So for many people in the pre-endgame, tower health is almost an afterthought, as long as it's high enough to get through a single wave it's good enough. With this, the Nightmare campaign would probably benefit, and if balanced right, it wouldn't negatively effect anyone except those undergeared.

Of course, it'd depend on balancing.

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^^ I think the main issue there is that game progression is way too exponential. When newer players DO get gear (and it would be nice to see better NM-enabling gear dropping in Insane), it would only help them to have stronger walls have stronger advantages.

Right now, there's little incentive to have a good waller EV in late survival waves due to Sharken dismantling everything equally. Solo play especially has become much more random and frustrating to get a survival 'level victory' with this latest patch on several maps since you have to be all over the board finding Sharkens, and if you miss one, even with Gas traps, strong Auras, and tons of towers in every lane aimed at them, you're pretty much done due to the ridiculous speed and strength of even goblins/orcs (lol not to mention Ogre-HP Fishvyrns). Extreme game regression is frustrating in a game where progression is already exponentially difficult, and having no incentive to use a player that you spent tons of effort to make extremely strong also reserves many endgame players to minimize gameplay until new patches come out.

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I think a big problem is lack of learning curve. Most non-nightmare enemies, it's obvious how to deal with. But with Djinn and now Sharken, it's quite a bit less obvious, and by the time you're encountering them you're likely in nightmare and getting high-statted ones coming at you quite quickly.

Your first ogre, you only meet one of. Your first necromancers, DEW, and Wyverns come in very small groups. Your first sharken probably costs you the map. That isn't really a good experience. Any time a game presents you with a failure, you need to understand *why* you failed and if not know wholly how to correct it, have an idea at least for trying again differently next time. For many users, that's not going to be the story of their experience with Djinn or Sharken. Failure from those can come too quickly to even know what happened the first few times.

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you would be a lot better off doing the maps that they spawn in on easier difficulties to learn what they do, most people that own those maps will have done those on at least Hard before trying to break into Nightmare? :s

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you would be a lot better off doing the maps that they spawn in on easier difficulties to learn what they do, most people that own those maps will have done those on at least Hard before trying to break into Nightmare? :s


The problem is two-fold. First, you shouldn't ever have to go back a difficulty. The progression should always be forward. Needing to go down one is counterintuitive. I know that's how it works now, but many players simply don't figure it out.

The second is that players may start playing Nightmare from Deeper Well rather than playing Shard maps at all. And the classic campaign on nightmare doesn't introduce you to the mobs well at all. This will be worse when Nightmare comes out officially, since at that time it's not supposed to require shards, which means people could have to go through it without the opportunity or option to play shards maps on lower difficulty in the first place.

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The problem is two-fold. First, you shouldn't ever have to go back a difficulty. The progression should always be forward. Needing to go down one is counterintuitive. I know that's how it works now, but many players simply don't figure it out.

The second is that players may start playing Nightmare from Deeper Well rather than playing Shard maps at all. And the classic campaign on nightmare doesn't introduce you to the mobs well at all. This will be worse when Nightmare comes out officially, since at that time it's not supposed to require shards, which means people could have to go through it without the opportunity or option to play shards maps on lower difficulty in the first place.


I believe nightmare mode shall always require shards, as the enemies are part of the shards sales description. Just that once the fourth shards pack comes out people who have purchased all shards packs seperately shall also have access.

Think of it this way, how can you go on a new mode in which the primary change is four new enemies if you don't own the content that contains the enemies?

People will never have nm mode without the shards maps so they shall always form the bridge into nightmare (and a better bridge once the fourth map comes out). :)

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I believe nightmare mode shall always require shards, as the enemies are part of the shards sales description. Just that once the fourth shards pack comes out people who have purchased all shards packs seperately shall also have access.

Think of it this way, how can you go on a new mode in which the primary change is four new enemies if you don't own the content that contains the enemies?

People will never have nm mode without the shards maps so they shall always form the bridge into nightmare (and a better bridge once the fourth map comes out). :)


Nah, Nightmare's gonna go available for everyone after Shards is finished. That's what Trendy's been telling us from the start, anyways. Remember that you can face NM-only enemies by joining another player's NM game on the core campaign, regardless of whether you own the DLC.

As for poor difficulty scaling, there is one thing I can say - Asides from the old "NM is beta" saying, the intentional progression is probably from isnane glitter to insane shards, so players are intended to encounter the new enemies one at a time before reaching NM where all the new enemies exist at once.

The way progression works isn't so unusual if you play through the game as intended, because you encounter each new enemy one at a time. Even the core campaign introduces enemies and never takes them away, but the shards enemies are only used on their specific maps until you reach NM. For anybody already in NM, only one enemy's being added with each DLC, so it's still a normal difficulty progression.

In ranked, I'm still only sufficiently geared for low-level NM or shards insane. I haven't had any major difficulty progression issues if I play on the maps I'm geared for - though I'm generally just running through each new map just once. I'm not really one for DD's gear grind anymore.

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