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I think people are just raging too much about sharken.


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You remember wrong. I had over 2k tower damage when the EV was released and the buff beam never stacked with guardian - The highest my harpoons ever hit was 240k and that was with stats far above what you're talking about. Besides, everything was nerfed along with squires. The squire nerf didn't make it harder, it made it easier.

People have been saying other people who came before them had it easier since the start of Nightmare. People were saying it when I first started and even more people were saying it when I started over, and I made it both times.

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They did not stack i just meant either or , but squire nmhc used to have a broken 60% top up in damage.

You can read the nerf sometime after ev's came out on the patch notes.

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So if an item can't be completely maxed on generic resist asap it's useless to you? I always start upgrading the resistance that I can get to 30% before the 10th upgrade first, then I upgrade the others so that I don't waste and of the extra res upgrades. I guess if you're playing on a low level you might not have enough upgrades to get generic to 40% unless you start with upgrading it, but if you get items with 150-250 upgrades it's not a problem. I can see how it could be a problem at lower gear qualities though, didn't really consider that.


Pretty Much. And the game looooooooooooooooooves to drop me 100^ and less armor pieces. But if it had 200+^, I probably wouldn't care about the negative generic resists. Though, I'm not getting them, unfortunately. :(

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Like goblins? those take a ton of clever strategies and tactics
Like archers?
Like kobolds?

Don't bash two monsters (djinn and sharken) for something most of the other monsters don't have.

Wyverns and Ogres. The only two things I've ever had to reevaluate a build on, and even that didn't require me being clever.

Furthermore, you talk about being forced to use gas traps, and how that isn't fun?

Almost all tower defense games have something called, "air units," and in most of them there are "anti-air towers"

The second you complained about being forced to use gas traps against certain enemies you lost all credibility, or at least proved you've never really played other tower defense games.


However most tower games do not have an enemy that can move your towers because that contradicts the whole point of it being a tower defence game. Dijinn are balanced due to the fact their ability to end a game can be stopped by not just having better stats. Spiders are great now there are not over 9000 of them. The issue with the game is Sharken due to the fact it can MOVE towers in A TOWER Defence game and no I dont take this is action 3rd person rts/rpg because the whole point of the classes to allow different towers to be used. Ergo is still a tower defence game with the option of different towers to be used.

The barb a summoner are cool concepts and add more options for a player to use. However I doubt your see ever be able to solo due to it being a tower defence game. As I will say again moving towers is too powerful of a mechanic in this game. This mechanic hurts new players and non-geared people who dont have flavour of the month build.

@ what above im seeing a higher degree of neg res too there is something going on since part 2 + patches

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I think if they fixed the geometry issue with towers being pushed by sharken, it might not be such a game ender. A pushed wall is not so bad compared to a wall shoved halfway into something else and leaving a gaping hole for mobs to funnel through. I dont wish to see sharken nerfed anymore than they already are but there are 3 things that need to be fixed/looked at:

1. Towers/walls getting shoved into solid map objects.
2. Gas traps not working properly like they should against sharken(regarding the issue of a coughing sharken being able to still charge despite every other mob still stuck in coughing animation and not about charging immunity)
3. Higher/Highest tower priority when a sharken gets into alert state(!).

I'd like to see these things addressed first before anything else. Whether you are for or against sharken you have to admit that some things arnt working as intended for one reason or another and the sooner it get looked at the better for the game and sharken in the long run. Till these problems are fixed, we cant meaningfully discuss if sharken are too OP for the game imho.

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I agree, but they still cause SOME trouble.

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Anyone with any sense should realise that the sharken and to a lesser extent Dijinn and soon to be released new mob do not have a liner effect on the game. It would require a graph showing at X stats on Y map/wave these stats there is no build that works regardless of strategy.

The only solution in the system atm is
A) Farm Mana tokens and trade
B) Get a group to help you farm better items

This is a flaw in the current build of the game, regardless of what side of the fence you stand on.

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You guys really need to think about a normal td game . . .



I will not think about about a normal td game, because this is not a normal td game. This is Dungeon Defenders! Ooorah mofo!

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Anyone with any sense should realise that the sharken and to a lesser extent Dijinn and soon to be released new mob do not have a liner effect on the game. It would require a graph showing at X stats on Y map/wave these stats there is no build that works regardless of strategy.

The only solution in the system atm is
A) Farm Mana tokens and trade
B) Get a group to help you farm better items


Personally, I don't think it's quite the 'flaw' you think it is.

When you consider a player whose just started the game, it isn't possible to immediately start on insane mode because of his total lack of stats, which would prevent him from taking on any enemy; sharken or not. When you reach the point when you can take on enemies of that specific difficulty setting, then at that point it is where strategy is needed to make it through the wave. And yes, this analogy still applies to Nightmare mode as well; if you don't have the stats to successfully take down any standard mob (or at least 'ogre derp'), then you will need to progress as you did before looking for better gear.

As for the issues surrounding sharken/djinns/whatever - Are you absolutely sure the strategies you're using are effective in taking out these mobs. I remember back before sharken came out, I only had to contend with djinns and spiders and was able to do so effectively with only low to mid level mythic gear. Did I need super stats? No. As for when sharken came out - yes they ruined me. Like so many other people, my then current strategies were ineffective. However, on trying out a new strategy (inspired from something I saw someone else using) I found myself new builds that effectively counter the sharken for me.

All in all, so long as you do have an absolute minimum in stats required for the mode and level, strategy really is where it counts.

P.S. I don't have super stats and have made it to end wave NM survival. Neither have I ever farmed mana tokens and traded them. As for playing in a group... what's wrong with playing with friends?

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I see a fair few people on both sides of the camp, I have to ask, to the people who say they aren't a problem, what is the general way of taking them out?

For now I've been dropping proxies where they charge, but the problem if they are still the weak link, I reach the point where the proxies aren't able to do enough damage to taken down the sharken and as the harpoons still insist on targeting orges instead of charging sharken I'm left powerless during the later waves.
My huntress is as well statted as my countess so it isn't a stat problem.

Then there is what class to play, at the moment I am forced to stick to my waller to replace walls, but should I instead play on my trapper to max their damage?


As I was able to make it to wave 25s (pre-sharken) I can probably spare some build units for extra sharken defenses, what should they be?

Do I put infernos down?, but their damage is low, electric auras clearly don't do enough damage and slows don't stop a charge (either do gas it seems), should I instead spend an extra 4 build units for each defense point to place buff beams on the proxies?

Or is there a solution involving active towers, I don't know, replace my harpoons with bowling balls?

The problem I have with sharken is they are strong before their time.
Every variation of my builds so far has fallen to sharken, barricades remain mostly undamaged, towers un-webbed and stuff never gets de-summoned (honestly it wasn't till I was playing around on city in the cliffs that I even remembered that Djinn could de-summon).

If I dedicate 13 build units to dealing with spiders that sets a standard for what build units I expect should be able to deal with other threats and creates a relative point to which I feel is balanced, Djinn to some extent adhered to it (though I'll admit, Djinn defenses also double up as regular defenses).
Sharken don't, maps and waves that I would have considered easy before (for instance 20~ magus tower) now requires me to replace at least one barricade a wave).



Maybe sharken don't need a nerf, maybe every other mob needs a buff to bring them inline with sharken?

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All Sharkboys need in my opinion is proper tower priority adjustments, then they would be fine also even if their design is much more boring and unoriginal than Djinn. Doesn't look like that's gonna happen at all though.


I agree, but I think that's their biggest problem too. If the towers were adjusted to target them first, then they would die quick enough to never make it through and so they might as well not even be there at all.

But yeah, as they are now it just feel random. You can set try to defend against them but they'll just randomly make it through from time to time.

You do have to set up your defenses properly for spiders and djinn, but once you do they're a non issue. For Sharken I feel like I'm playing pretty much the same as I would if they weren't there and it's just bad luck when they make it through.

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I feel like sharken are there to keep you on your toes. To keep away from the "alright everything is set now just upgrade repair gg" at least that's how i feel. they can be countered right now. Is it difficult? of course. But i'm gonna guess that's what they wanted the hardest difficulty to be... difficult. Impossible? no. It is not impossible. As far as new players trying to get in there for the first time, you don't have to completely beat something to progress. Yes, it may mean that players will have to do insane crystal shards maps to get mythics, and give a couple good shots at nm maps for some better drops. That's what i did. It's not impossible, just takes a bit of work.

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Monk aura with 1300 attack and range would be the first step to dealing with sharken, then a seahorse pet that can deal at least 80k-120k dps. Both of these things helped me to get past wave 20 on misty and till wave 29 when I got wtfpwned by spiders of all things >_>. Even then I had a wall charge every wave past 22. But thanks to my seahorse I could either hold down a lane with my towers backing me up or aggro ogres away from my defenses and crystals. Its a numbers game now, deal or gtfo......sadly.

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The reason why I say this is because it seems like people are either being too stubborn to try a different strategy when their current ones don't work against sharken, or they're just having really bad luck with their builds, no matter what they try. I myself have done aquanos a few times, and I have yet to see them actually manage to wreck the build by pushing the defenses. I've seen the defenses pushed, but they never ruined the entire build by doing so.

I just think that people need to think more and rage less. Because all the threads about the sharken I've seen have been all about sharken causing them to rage. So far, that's all I've seen.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to brace for the imminent rage/heavy criticism/flame posts. Knowing some of the people in these forums.
Been there tried that and the problem is that they're "random" and just like you used to take mysterious crystal damage you have late game fails because a random sharken gets through. Fix that random BS lucky draw aspect and I'll be happy.

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I spent the last few days setting up on several maps several times. I used some builds that were here on the forum and worked fine for others and used build i thought of myself. And none of those worked and it was always because of sharken pushing through.

I have no idea whats causing it but even if i build like others do they always manage to screw things up. I didnt progress at all the last week because i just couldnt find any map that i can play without dying in the first rounds.

I tried it starting on early waves on survival so i have time to upgrade but i still die within the first or three-four rounds after that. I tried to start on later waves so that i have more mana to build everything and i still die in the first or second round.

And after a week of trying and trying i am so tired of it. I don't believe this is a matter of positioning or trying out things. And i don't think it's a matter of bad luck either cause no one can have so much bad luck.

For now i will stop playing because i just cant find anything that i can do. :-/

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I agree, but I think that's their biggest problem too. If the towers were adjusted to target them first, then they would die quick enough to never make it through and so they might as well not even be there at all.


What I meant by that was when a Sharken gets ready to charge, my towers should stop focusing on the ogre doing nothing but standing still and quickly focus on the sharken trying to charge. When Djinn desummon something, the towers do this and shoot him till he's dead, why don't they target the sharken when they're winding up to charge? It annoys me so much that according to my towers, Sharkens trying to wind up a charge are nothing but cute innocent kitty cats that are doing absolutely nothing to warrant being a higher danger than an ogre staying still.

Can you imagine if they reverted the tower priority on Djinn and they could desummon completely unscathed by your towers unless you yourself intervened? That's basically what's going on here, just worse. There's absolutely no reason not to add this but appearantly Trendy considers this "balance." when in reality it's nothing but a dumb mechanic that makes your games luck based. I don't care if they make their charges take less time, just as long as they add this.

Sharken are a non issue in campaign, this is true. Survival is another story. Even if you slap elec auras + inferno trap + str drain + gas trap + ensnare + buff beam all upgraded to the max, unless you have 3k+ stats, they're eventually gonna outlive it and charge your walls anyway.

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Sharken are a non issue in campaign, this is true. Survival is another story. Even if you slap elec auras + inferno trap + str drain + gas trap + ensnare + buff beam all upgraded to the max, unless you have 3k+ stats, they're eventually gonna outlive it and charge your walls anyway.


My highest tower stat is 2.5k, otherwise my average stats for my builders is a little under 2k. Despite this, I seem to have zero problems with sharken on NM HC Survival and even for mixed mode (on Mistymire). Just throwing it out there...

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Late to this discussion but...

I usually play solo or duo. We set everything up and then hop on our dps characters. When I see a sharken or a djinn in a position to wreck anything, I immediately target that and kill it.

Let your defenses kill the trash. Yes that even includes ogres. You can stand behind an ogre and heal the wall or turret it is beating on allllllll day. You can't do that with a sharken or a djinn. So you must use your head and target the one thing that can actually ruin your day.

Hold shift when you're not doing anything but mindlessly wacking goblins and orcs. They don't matter. What matters is your top priority target. Find them, eliminate them, and your threat is gone.

Use your heads! If you don't have a dps character, well you have 8 slots for a reason! Make a Squire or a Barbarian, or the latest op class, the Monk, and get your hands dirty. With the Monk you can boost your towers (Healing them and making them do far more damage) or boost yourself!!

Now you may not want to gear up another character. You may think that you should be able to do the same thing every day and get away with it. This doesn't exactly work anywhere ever. Work? No. Relationships? No. Food? No! You don't adapt, your job gets boring and your girlfriend leaves you alone to eat your macaroni and cheese (again...)

TLDR : Target the sharken and djinn personally and leave the fodder to the defenses.

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-Just DPS them.


What happens when you hit late wave survivals where when you step outside the barricades you get ganked by spiders and ninjas?

Now, I'll admit, my EV only has 125k health and capped resists using the standard costume, but still, I can get taken down in a few seconds or before the web wears off from being sniped by a spider from around the corner.

So, how do you deal with wave 25~ sharken when you have ogres completely blocking the barricades and spiders and DEWs jumping you from all directions meaning you have to fight through them to reach a sharken before he charges through your defenses?

DPS just isn't a practical solution, especially when on hardcore...

However, I have found that proxies are a relatively good solution, in that they hit an area of mobs, put them where the sharken begin the charge then waste even more build units on buff beams for them and some harpoons that can cover encase of Djinn and you can take care of sharken...

Plus the proxies are great at mopping up trash too!


>Monk is over powered.

I would assume you don't get that far in survivals or you have an insane HP stat....

>Implying people who do nightmare only use one character.
That is just silly, I don't think its possible to just use one character without some ridiculous stats.

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I, too, raged against the sharken. I thought it was a silly addition. But then I pulled up my pants and moved on. I guess the difference between myself and others is that I primarily use a dps character, and have a stable of builders to make defenses for me so I can ravage the countryside and not the other way around.

I leveled and geared a squire, monk, ev, huntress, and apprentice. I did so because I was tired of getting my barbarian kicked out of games for no reason. I figured I would solo. It took very little time to level them, a bit longer to gear them. When it came down to it, my desire to beat the sharken allowed me to do so. I can now solo most of the levels on survival to completion.

I play a dps character that can die if I make a mistake. My build can fail if I make a positioning error or forget to clear out a high priority target. These are personal mistakes that I make. And I know when I fail, that that was the problem. Know that this game is a constant stream of priorities and if you don't treat it as such, you can and will fail to any of them at any time.

Now the real part you don't want to hear. I do require all of my builders to solo content. The only one that I would say is not needed is the apprentice. If you want to pick a scapegoat for your lack of advancement, it should be that the individual classes can no longer operate alone and win. You need friends or a stable of alts. The shark will not stop to a lowly geared squire harpoon with no buff beams after wave 12. You need that gas trap now.

Wait for the release of the next shard. Wait for the next creature to effectively wreck our builds and force us to start over. I will learn a new build. I will use my head and perservere. I play games to challenge myself and overcome them. Why do you play games?

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I, too, raged against the sharken. I thought it was a silly addition. But then I pulled up my pants and moved on. I guess the difference between myself and others is that I primarily use a dps character, and have a stable of builders to make defenses for me so I can ravage the countryside and not the other way around.

I leveled and geared a squire, monk, ev, huntress, and apprentice. I did so because I was tired of getting my barbarian kicked out of games for no reason. I figured I would solo. It took very little time to level them, a bit longer to gear them. When it came down to it, my desire to beat the sharken allowed me to do so. I can now solo most of the levels on survival to completion.

I play a dps character that can die if I make a mistake. My build can fail if I make a positioning error or forget to clear out a high priority target. These are personal mistakes that I make. And I know when I fail, that that was the problem. Know that this game is a constant stream of priorities and if you don't treat it as such, you can and will fail to any of them at any time.

Now the real part you don't want to hear. I do require all of my builders to solo content. The only one that I would say is not needed is the apprentice. If you want to pick a scapegoat for your lack of advancement, it should be that the individual classes can no longer operate alone and win. You need friends or a stable of alts. The shark will not stop to a lowly geared squire harpoon with no buff beams after wave 12. You need that gas trap now.

Wait for the release of the next shard. Wait for the next creature to effectively wreck our builds and force us to start over. I will learn a new build. I will use my head and perservere. I play games to challenge myself and overcome them. Why do you play games?


Well said sir.

PS. - You sound like me. Lol

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I am going to be so bold to say that I love the sharken. Finally, something else to do besides building wall + as many poons as will fit, then just run around an repair. It's exhilarating to use builds and strategies that worked upon DD's initial release, but have lied dormant since squire became super man for a few months. If you have more than 2 poons on a buff beam, you're doing it wrong.

I have so much more to do now. Previously all I would look for is tower gear for squire builder. Now I am back to giving a **** about my other tower characters. The sharken are a cry for attention to your build. The way I see it, if a sharken gets through, you have a weak spot. I have giraffed throne room (NMHC) without using walls. I have giraffed deeper wells (NMHC) without using ensnare or gas trap. There are many different ways to deal with them, not just gas trap (and if you're using DPS to focus on sharken, again, you're doing it wrong). I only have one stat on on char that's over 2000, so it's alarming if people with better stats are having trouble. Experiment with "unconventional" builds. There are very few people who truly understand the building aspect of this game. It's a shame because it's like pitching in baseball ie 70% of the game is said to depend on the pitchers. The same is true with builders. On a level like foundry, for example, try beefing up the two wings and leaving your middle weak. Then you stay in the middle. Just simple out-of-the-box thinking like that can help a lot. I also can not stress enough the importance of using traps, auras, and buff beams on every single build. Also, basically every tower (besides gas and sometimes darkness traps, and walls) should be buff beamed. You really have to think about builds, not just throw em up and hope for the best. After you figure one out for yourself a light bulb should appear over your head and prepare you for other maps.

If anyone has specific questions on dealing with sharken, please PM me or add me on steam (hakk03) and I would love to either advise you, or show you in game. I could also use some more people to play with and would love to take a few of you under my wing. Sharken are great for a game that was becoming very monotonous and a bit tedious for high level players. If you have ambition to see it the way I do, please inquire.

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So guys are saying that it stops becoming a tower defense game at some point and you have to become a hack and slasher to progress to top levels. There should be more than one way to finish the game, not just turning it into another boring DPS fest.

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