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I think people are just raging too much about sharken.


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The reason why I say this is because it seems like people are either being too stubborn to try a different strategy when their current ones don't work against sharken, or they're just having really bad luck with their builds, no matter what they try. I myself have done aquanos a few times, and I have yet to see them actually manage to wreck the build by pushing the defenses. I've seen the defenses pushed, but they never ruined the entire build by doing so.

I just think that people need to think more and rage less. Because all the threads about the sharken I've seen have been all about sharken causing them to rage. So far, that's all I've seen.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to brace for the imminent rage/heavy criticism/flame posts. Knowing some of the people in these forums.

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I actually haven't too much of a problem with a Sharken, except for a few times.

My biggest pet peeve is they just feel random. If an ogre makes it through your defenses, you know you set up something badly or weren't repairing diligently. But when a sharken does it just feels like bad luck (though it happens pretty rarely).

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I am gonna put in some actual suggestion now instead of just being an ***.

I think what would be useful is to have selectable announcements. That way you could get rid of "THE OGRE HAS ARRIVED" or "THE DJINN HAS ARRIVED" and just focus on killing the Sharken when they show their sharkish faces.

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My only problem with the Sharken is late NM HC survival when your towers think it's a better idea to keep priority on the ogre derping and not attacking at your walls at all instead of the sharken spending ages getting ready to charge unscathed. Gas traps work fine until they reset and thus sharken become immune to them when they end up charging successfully because all your towers are focusing on the harmless ogres instead.

It's stupid, and I'm not seeing Trendy thinking about changing the priority at all which is ridiculous considering there is nothing you can possibly do in those situations to stop it. Late survival waves will get you killed too fast if you venture out regardless of hp and resists, especially with the absurd damage upscaling on the fish why-verns. Djinn desummoning take priority over ogres at the walls, why don't Sharken?

This never happens on campaign obviously, since ogres don't flock in the 50s there with tens of millions of hp and thus don't screw your tower priority up. Go play wave 17+ of aquanos on NM HC survival and post back about the rage on the sharken being unjustified. One pushed wall is all it takes to lose at that point.
Other than that, proper positioning of snares/traps should successfuly harpoon the shark. (Pun intended.)

Yep, as long as there aren't several 10+ mil hp ogres at your walls doing nothing to warrant more tower priority than a charging sharken. Builds, tower placement, and stats stop mattering at that point completely.

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I feel that sharken penetration only occurs when my 2 (or more) towers are spaced a bit on the sloppy side. (Raunchy much?)

Other than that, proper positioning of snares/traps should successfuly harpoon the shark. (Pun intended.)

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The simple issue is that there a two groups and possibly a third soon

The first group have stats and the builds to make sharken a non issue i will refer to them as the elite
The second group I refer as semi-casual's they would like to progress and reach the elite however due to changes in the games goal posts they cant. This could be seen as an unfair advantage.

Suppose a company released an mmo with a closed beta, supposed that company made the option for keeping your beta character for a price in real life money. This is what trendy has done in essence. Thought im not advocating the game needs a ranked wipe because I and many other most likely would quit if that happens and trendy knows this.

That is the state of the game is in atm. I said there is a third group this group are the people who have yet to play or unlocked nightmare, as I remember nightmare was going to be released to everybody who didn't purchase the shards dlc. This group will be progressing on a vary different game from the ones who purchased the shards dlc.

The fact is that the odds are so heavily stacked against them due to nm maps requires nm gear and hours spent getting the mana to upgrade said gear. Puts a question in that players mind "is this worth it". I think they will side with no because were just talking about entry level mythic to mid mythic, the fact we have trans and supreme is going make new players avoid this game for other releases because the time invested in getting into DD could of been spent on MANY other games.

This leaves Trendy in the position of deciding who are they going to tailor the game to.
Changing nm to suit new players in a mechanical way will make the game for the elite basically afkable
Not Changing nm in a mechanical way would keep the elite happy but would drive away any new customers.

The only solution for this I can come up with is a toggle for each of the new mobs. All the current drop rates stay the same but for each mob you "toggle on" the rewards for that map are increased.

This would benefit the elite by allowing them to find better items because they just have all the mobs toggled on anyway.

This would benefit new players and semi-casual's by allowing an easy progression that would allow them to toggle on the new enemies for better rewards when their ready.

This is a benefit because it avoids the nerf this buff that dilemma

Toggles being
Spiders
Dejins
Sharken
Next mob

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They need to make Gas Trap interrupt them as they're winding up. Sharkmen weren't that bad prior to 7.32, but since then it feels as if they're immune to Gas Trap while winding up.

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You can easily tell if someone is just brute forcing(along with a liberal dose of patronization) the game with stats to make sharken a non-issue and who isnt. Look at Jorkfriend's post to see what I mean.

Anyway I agree on the sharken raging issue. I've entered a zen like calmness regarding sharken after going a week of nothing but constant raging. Im almost certain the new summoner DLC will solve most sharken issue and thats what trendy is hoping too. Im fully committed to the $3.99 I have to pay to progress in the game again.

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I just gas them, and have been making extensive use of Lit auras lately. Makes them rather Irrelevant. Stats are important, but your build matters far more. Getting a DPS out there to clear clogs and Sharks is also important. In the higher waves of later survival maps, your towers will be distracted by walking damage soaking meat. AKA Ogres. You have to buff the towers to assist, or go clear out Sharken/kill Ogres yourself. DPS characters, Gas traps, infernos, electric auras, and Proxies have become significantly more necessary.

I agree, far too much raging for a simple to solve problem. Though, the DPS part would be easier to solve if armor wasn't dropping with negative generic resist. :(

So much potential DPS armor ruined due to negative generic resist on a nice enchanted armor piece.

They need to make Gas Trap interrupt them as they're winding up. Sharkmen weren't that bad prior to 7.32, but since then it feels as if they're immune to Gas Trap while winding up.


Indeed. As well as Targeting priority improvements.

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...keep priority on the ogre derping and not attacking at your walls at all


ROFL! This has to be the single best commentary so far on the topic of a world with sharken.

I always felt like the derping was a very strange mechanic, but putting that + the information that towers factor in proximity to its target selection logic really highlights how haphazard the bigger picture is.

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I'd appreciate the Sharken being hit by gas traps during charges, but I don't know if Trendy plans on fixin' it. Beyond that, it would be very nice if we got a notification that something was moved, much like we get notifications of a crystal getting attacked. I can deal with being careful in an area that a Sharken has poked a hole into, but not if I only know about after 2 ogres swaggered in and already beat my crystal to death in 2 blows.

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My problem with the sharks has allways been the the price of not stopping one is huge, especially in late survival and they force you to use specific heroes (wall builder and/or really powerful DPS) to avoid failure. They are an absolute nightmare for people who can't/don't want to play in full parties.

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I personally love sharken, and dont see anything wrong with them except for the immune to gas during windup. I dont see what yall ******* about... 4k mobs, no clogs?!? OP auras? id take that any day... sharken? just a minor defenct... CHANGE YOUR BUILDS. i allways go duo just to help with repairs and upgrading... if something gets pushed, one of us can just tank the ogres, rest is killed to fast to be of an issue.

One idea that someone had posted in another chat was to make the towers go back to original positon after like 30 seconds to a minute, and while some people might think this hard to program, i beleive its as simple as putting each tower on a "rubberband" and making them slowly get pulled back to where they started.

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I'm part of what DarkSoul calls the elite. Personally, I think both Sharken and Djinn are retarded additions that have no business in a Tower Defense game. Their only purpose seems to be to force us to use gas traps. I dislike Sharken far more than Djinn though. I don't think they're that hard to deal with, I just personally think they make the game less fun. Things that are challenging but can be overcome with clever strategy and tactics are fun, things that randomly screw you over aren't. No matter how well you play, you can't account for everything, some times gas traps stop stunning and the next mob that touches it is a charging sharken.

I enjoyed the game far more before Sharken was released - I can clear Aquanos, it's not that I think it's too hard, I'm just sick and tired of randomly losing half the time to stupid mechanics I literally can't do anything about. I barely play at all any more, I'm probably not going to bother until the last shard is released. Then I'll probably quit once I beat it.

Though, the DPS part would be easier to solve if armor wasn't dropping with negative generic resist. :(


I don't understand why everyone keeps crying about this. As long as an armor piece has all resistances, who gives a crap if they're positive or negative. Just upgrade them into the positives. If it costs so many upgrades that the overall upgraded stats of the item is worse than what you already had, don't use it.

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I don't understand why everyone keeps crying about this. As long as an armor piece has all resistances, who gives a crap if they're positive or negative. Just upgrade them into the positives. If it costs so many upgrades that the overall upgraded stats of the item is worse than what you already had, don't use it.


I always start with getting generic resist to it's soft cap of 24(31 with the myth set bonus). Which means it needs to start on at least 10%. I want to get the most out of the armor that I use. When I can't find any kind of upgrade for long periods of time, it's just stupid. Oh, and in order to make reasonable progress without making risks or putting yourself in a dangerous position, you have to get high resists. You also need to get as high of stats as you can. Negative generic resists impedes that progress for DPS characters, and active Builders.

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I'm part of what DarkSoul calls the elite. Personally, I think both Sharken and Djinn are retarded additions that have no business in a Tower Defense game. Their only purpose seems to be to force us to use gas traps. I dislike Sharken far more than Djinn though. I don't think they're that hard to deal with, I just personally think they make the game less fun. Things that are challenging but can be overcome with clever strategy and tactics are fun, things that randomly shove a spiked ***** up your *** aren't.


Like goblins? those take a ton of clever strategies and tactics
Like archers?
Like kobolds?

Don't bash two monsters (djinn and sharken) for something most of the other monsters don't have.

Wyverns and Ogres. The only two things I've ever had to reevaluate a build on, and even that didn't require me being clever.

Furthermore, you talk about being forced to use gas traps, and how that isn't fun?

Almost all tower defense games have something called, "air units," and in most of them there are "anti-air towers"

The second you complained about being forced to use gas traps against certain enemies you lost all credibility, or at least proved you've never really played other tower defense games.

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I honestly think Djinn are a great addition (and a clever concept) and have been balanced to be perfectly fine. They're an interesting curve-ball type of enemy and have a variety of spells to keep you on your toes. My only problem with them is how in some maps, they can go inside map geometry where towers can't hit them and they just do whatever they want until you go in to kill them yourself. I'm looking at you, mistymire.

All Sharkboys need in my opinion is proper tower priority adjustments, then they would be fine also even if their design is much more boring and unoriginal than Djinn. Doesn't look like that's gonna happen at all though.

I still stand by my position saying it's stupid how Djinn desummoning will take priority over several ogres doing nothing at the walls, but pre-charging Sharkboys get away scott free and cause game over for you in late survival in one fell swoop all because the game thinks a helpless ogre is much more threatening than sharkboys are.

I also think senz54 has a point in regards to how the game is almost forcing us to use gas traps now. It's by no means a necessity for Djinn and never has been for me, but with Sharkboys being around, it's kind of forced for survival mode.

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Like goblins? those take a ton of clever strategies and tactics
Like archers?
Like kobolds?

Don't bash two monsters (djinn and sharken) for something most of the other monsters don't have.

Wyverns and Ogres. The only two things I've ever had to reevaluate a build on, and even that didn't require me being clever.

Furthermore, you talk about being forced to use gas traps, and how that isn't fun?

Almost all tower defense games have something called, "air units," and in most of them there are "anti-air towers"

The second you complained about being forced to use gas traps against certain enemies you lost all credibility, or at least proved you've never really played other tower defense games.


Monk, Apprentice, Squire. Those are the heroes that have anti-air towers capable of dealing with wyverns. There are a crapload of different towers and strategies you can use to deal with them. There is one single tower that helps you deal with Djinn and Sharken - Both the two last enemies are countered by the same boring strategy.
Notice how I didn't say anything about spiders? Spiders are awesome. They require you to tailor your whole build to deal with them, and once you've sufficiently spider-proofed your build they wont randomly ruin everything despite it.

Kobolds do require thought, if you don't use something that kills them before they charge your walls they will do serious damage over time and a kobold rush in Mixed Mode could obliterate a wall if they all reached it. Still, there's more than one way to deal with them.

Show me another tower defense game that uses different heroes and forces you to use one hero's one specific tower for all builds or gtfo.

I honestly think Djinn are a great addition (and a clever concept) and have been balanced to be perfectly fine. They're an interesting curve-ball type of enemy and have a variety of spells to keep you on your toes. My only problem with them is how in some maps, they can go inside map geometry where towers can't hit them and they just do whatever they want until you go in to kill them yourself. I'm looking at you, mistymire.

All Sharkboys need in my opinion is proper tower priority adjustments, then they would be fine also even if their design is much more boring and unoriginal than Djinn. Doesn't look like that's gonna happen at all though.

I still stand by my position saying it's stupid how Djinn desummoning will take priority over several ogres doing nothing at the walls, but pre-charging Sharkboys get away scott free and cause game over for you in late survival in one fell swoop all because the game thinks a helpless ogre is much more threatening than sharkboys are.

I also think senz54 has a point in regards to how the game is almost forcing us to use gas traps now. It's by no means a necessity for Djinn and never has been for me, but with Sharkboys being around it's kind of forced now.


I agree with you, Djinn really aren't that bad. Like I said I dislike Sharken far more.

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I always start with getting generic resist to it's soft cap of 24(31 with the myth set bonus). Which means it needs to start on at least 10%. I want to get the most out of the armor that I use. When I can't find any kind of upgrade for long periods of time, it's just stupid. Oh, and in order to make reasonable progress without making risks or putting yourself in a dangerous position, you have to get high resists. You also need to get as high of stats as you can. Negative generic resists impedes that progress for DPS characters, and active Builders.


So if an item can't be completely maxed on generic resist asap it's useless to you? I always start upgrading the resistance that I can get to 30% before the 10th upgrade first, then I upgrade the others so that I don't waste and of the extra res upgrades. I guess if you're playing on a low level you might not have enough upgrades to get generic to 40% unless you start with upgrading it, but if you get items with 150-250 upgrades it's not a problem. I can see how it could be a problem at lower gear qualities though, didn't really consider that.

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I'm new, so don't laugh if this is a really silly question..... but what's the point of getting all your gear to 30-40% generic resist? doesn't it cap at 90 total?

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I'm new, so don't laugh if this is a really silly question..... but what's the point of getting all your gear to 30-40% generic resist? doesn't it cap at 90 total?


In Nightmare your resists are about halved, so having 160%+ resist will give you somewhere around 85%-90% (even though in the tavern it caps at 90%).

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Thanks! makes alot of sense now ^^ and makes me fell silly for not upping my resist at all after i had a total of 90 >

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I honestly think Djinn are a great addition (and a clever concept) and have been balanced to be perfectly fine. They're an interesting curve-ball type of enemy and have a variety of spells to keep you on your toes. My only problem with them is how in some maps, they can go inside map geometry where towers can't hit them and they just do whatever they want until you go in to kill them yourself. I'm looking at you, mistymire.

All Sharkboys need in my opinion is proper tower priority adjustments, then they would be fine also even if their design is much more boring and unoriginal than Djinn. Doesn't look like that's gonna happen at all though.

I still stand by my position saying it's stupid how Djinn desummoning will take priority over several ogres doing nothing at the walls, but pre-charging Sharkboys get away scott free and cause game over for you in late survival in one fell swoop all because the game thinks a helpless ogre is much more threatening than sharkboys are.

I also think senz54 has a point in regards to how the game is almost forcing us to use gas traps now. It's by no means a necessity for Djinn and never has been for me, but with Sharkboys being around, it's kind of forced for survival mode.




+2000


You guys really need to think about a normal td game . . .

what happened to single builds work ?

How are people meant to progress into the game ,

Don't talk about how much god forsaken 60000000000000000 hours you put into the game and tell us that the sharks are of no threat to your holy supernatural builds thanks to your strategic mind.


Just to remind everyone who is belongs to the stated *elite groups* MOST of you went through nmhc the easy way , and only suffered blows AFTER you had decent gear into the shard maps, spiders were so easy to counter, too easy.

What threat are djins to you when you had 1.5k SQUIRES with a broken nmhc buff ? remember 250k shots (with app buff and earlier ev buff beam ) with 1.3k tower atk on harps ?? A lot of things helped a lot of earlier people cross the dang bridge .


I used to remember we could have enrage aura just outside spawn circles , and we could almost finish an nmhc build solely just using a trap huntress with traps all over the map, + a minor amount of wall and harps for anti wyvern.

Djins didn't really make the game harder , it just destroyed alot of solo hero builds, which means the game is turning into a force-you-to-hybrid-build.

For now rant will be continued later for pt2:p

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