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Done with DD - tired of my cheese being moved


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This isn't a rant, or a flame. It's just that I'm a little frustrated and a little sad and I felt like I had to tell the developers that while I liked your game a lot and had a lot of fun with it, the constant changes and difficulty increases are really wearing me out.

I just have the one toon that's high level. And spiders were tricky at first. And then there was sharken. And just as I was getting a handle on that, you go and start throwing ogres at me two and three at a time. They walk up, blow through my apprentice walls and I lose. Game over. I'm just trying to have some fun on nightmare endless spires. I was doing ok and even getting better - progressing deeper etc. I even managed to win the wave a few times. Then patch after patch just makes it harder and harder.

I'm sure the flames will come. Some will say "QQ", others will scream "L2P!!". That's ok. Go post that if it makes you feel better. I'm only posting this because I'm hoping it might make me feel better.

When you keep making the game harder and harder too quickly, you take away the fun and a lot of people stop playing. I guess I'm one. I've bought the game and some of the DLC, but I won't be buying any more because it's not fun any more. I feel like I'm being punished.

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If your wall is getting attacked, then your build is off. Wall's shouldn't be getting attacked by Ogres if you build right. They will run up against them. If your wall is getting attacked, then your defenses are too close to it (Ogres will aggro what is hitting them and try to get to that tower).

From several of the builds I've seen people do that have sharken problems, their build is usually too reliant on Harpoons/Fire Towers. I generally see these builds use 3 of these towers per lane. You really only want 2 at the most (even 1 can work just fine). The same builds don't really make use of traps and auras. The golden age of harpoons being the best tower is pretty much done with the inclusion of sharken.

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Shouldn't give up, the DLC is great when you get up there in levels, try playing online with people, the game has so much to do, hopefully you find new life in it soon :/

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I just have the one toon that's high level.


And yet it's TE's fault...

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This isn't a rant, or a flame. It's just that I'm a little frustrated and a little sad and I felt like I had to tell the developers that while I liked your game a lot and had a lot of fun with it, the constant changes and difficulty increases are really wearing me out.

I just have the one toon that's high level. And spiders were tricky at first. And then there was sharken. And just as I was getting a handle on that, you go and start throwing ogres at me two and three at a time. They walk up, blow through my apprentice walls and I lose. Game over. I'm just trying to have some fun on nightmare endless spires. I was doing ok and even getting better - progressing deeper etc. I even managed to win the wave a few times. Then patch after patch just makes it harder and harder.

I'm sure the flames will come. Some will say "QQ", others will scream "L2P!!". That's ok. Go post that if it makes you feel better. I'm only posting this because I'm hoping it might make me feel better.

When you keep making the game harder and harder too quickly, you take away the fun and a lot of people stop playing. I guess I'm one. I've bought the game and some of the DLC, but I won't be buying any more because it's not fun any more. I feel like I'm being punished.


Why not play INSANE mode if you don't like the challenge?

And if you're so sure the flames will come, doesn't that say something about what you're writing. It's almost like you realize how what you're writing sounds like a person who refuses to adapt to change and play a game that involves some level of challenge.

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I don't see how one person announcing that they're quitting is suppose to make TE change the game to your liking. You're honestly better off posting in the patch notes or suggestion forums for possible fixes.

I have the same problem as you... what I decided to do was to keep moving forward. I'd also suggest that you switch from an app to a combo of EV/Squire. I few insane Glit runs would help. I'm STILL stuck progressing, but I'm still kind of having fun. Look for people to play with, that always makes the game better. Also, their is a help group, even though I don't know what it's called. But, since you're quitting, I guess none of this advice helps.

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I don't see how one person announcing that they're quitting is suppose to make TE change the game to your liking. You're honestly better off posting in the patch notes or suggestion forums for possible fixes.

I have the same problem as you... what I decided to do was to keep moving forward. I'd also suggest that you switch from an app to a combo of EV/Squire. I few insane Glit runs would help. I'm STILL stuck progressing, but I'm still kind of having fun. Look for people to play with, that always makes the game better. Also, their is a help group, even though I don't know what it's called. But, since you're quitting, I guess none of this advice helps.


It's like playing Super Mario Bros. on the NES and enjoying it until you get to the first Hammer Bro, and then deciding, "I HATE HOW THIS GAME KEEPS GETTING MORE DIFFICULT AND REQUIRES ME TO CHANGE MY STRATEGY," promptly shutting off the NES, and never playing the game again.

You decided to move forward it seems, the OP, not so much.

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Unfortunately, if you're playing Nightmare solo, having a second high-level character is almost a must. Try leveling up a tower Squire. Additionally, it might help to have two different Apprentices -- one DPS App and one Tower App. Hope this helps!

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Unfortunately, if you're playing Nightmare solo, having a second high-level character is almost a must. Try leveling up a tower Squire. Additionally, it might help to have two different Apprentices -- one DPS App and one Tower App. Hope this helps!


I completely forgot about that. Yeah, the game might seem impossible unless you have at LEAST a squire or apprentice with a Monk or Huntress.

OP, you gotta have at least 2 of them.

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Why not play INSANE mode if you don't like the challenge?

And if you're so sure the flames will come, doesn't that say something about what you're writing. It's almost like you realize how what you're writing sounds like a person who refuses to adapt to change and play a game that involves some level of challenge.


Honestly, I think it says more about my expectations of people in the interwebz in general than it does about what I wrote. I'm not trying to rant or flame. (And to the early poster, I think of a rant as being full of anger. I'm not. I'm more just kind of depressed, so to me that's the difference.)

And I get what you're saying saxysaxplayer. I made that decision a couple times already, but feel like I'm moving backwards rather than forwards.

If the question is "Why did I bother?" then there are two answers. The first is to serve as a reminder that the constant changes come with a price, and some players may not like it. The second reason was to see what useful suggestions might come out of it. (Maybe I have to break down and level a squire instead.)

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The game is definitely playable solo. It's even playable with 1 Hero. However having multiple heroes(tower damage, tower hp, auras, traps, and hero dps) makes the game a whole lot easier.

If you would be interested in doing some co-op feel free to add me on Steam. I always enjoy playing with people who are actually attempting and not just looking to get carried.

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If you have the stats, but are losing on nightmade difficulty, you need to adjust something.

Many have mentioned different characters, which is a no brainer, but I'd also suggest having multiple pets.

Currently, I roll with:

A Huntress Guardians for my Squire/Apprentice Builder.

I have an awesome Trans Genie (for tower upgrades) and Mythical Djinnlett (keeps invis/ps going) for the later waves for my Huntress.

Those will make all the difference, trust me.

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This isn't a rant, or a flame. It's just that I'm a little frustrated and a little sad and I felt like I had to tell the developers that while I liked your game a lot and had a lot of fun with it, the constant changes and difficulty increases are really wearing me out.

I just have the one toon that's high level. And spiders were tricky at first. And then there was sharken. And just as I was getting a handle on that, you go and start throwing ogres at me two and three at a time. They walk up, blow through my apprentice walls and I lose. Game over. I'm just trying to have some fun on nightmare endless spires. I was doing ok and even getting better - progressing deeper etc. I even managed to win the wave a few times. Then patch after patch just makes it harder and harder.

I'm sure the flames will come. Some will say "QQ", others will scream "L2P!!". That's ok. Go post that if it makes you feel better. I'm only posting this because I'm hoping it might make me feel better.

When you keep making the game harder and harder too quickly, you take away the fun and a lot of people stop playing. I guess I'm one. I've bought the game and some of the DLC, but I won't be buying any more because it's not fun any more. I feel like I'm being punished.


I don't know but is NM still considered to be beta?

Also maybe try playing it on insane if you just want to have fun.

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Honestly, I think it says more about my expectations of people in the interwebz in general than it does about what I wrote. I'm not trying to rant or flame. (And to the early poster, I think of a rant as being full of anger. I'm not. I'm more just kind of depressed, so to me that's the difference.)

And I get what you're saying saxysaxplayer. I made that decision a couple times already, but feel like I'm moving backwards rather than forwards.

If the question is "Why did I bother?" then there are two answers. The first is to serve as a reminder that the constant changes come with a price, and some players may not like it. The second reason was to see what useful suggestions might come out of it. (Maybe I have to break down and level a squire instead.)


What are your stats? I've been looking for someone to play with since forever, and since I think you really don't want to quit, I'd be happy to play with you.

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Make a good DPS Character. I'd heavily recommend DPS Monk, because you can boost towers and heros. Get good DPS pet, and you can go hunt Sharks and help kill Ogres.

Past Wave 20 of Misty, I'd have my walls being moved because the Ogres were distracting my towers, thus my towers were unable to kill the Sharks. Once I made my DPS monk and got him to 74 (now 78 with a Lemurian Halberd), I didn't have any wall pushes.

Also, if a sharken is winding up and get gassed, he'll charge anyways, IIRC. Not 100% sure on that one, but it's what I've been told. Even then, its imperative that you get DPS out to hunt them if your build relies on gas, and Ogres get a ton of HP. You especially need to go clear out clogs.

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I completely forgot about that. Yeah, the game might seem impossible unless you have at LEAST a squire or apprentice with a Monk or Huntress.

OP, you gotta have at least 2 of them.


In other words, you MUST have a tower squire. Apps are optional according to TE.

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In other words, you MUST have a tower squire. Apps are optional according to TE.


Correction: According to Hitmonchan. I'm also a mediocre player and a lover of Squire blockades.

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If you have the stats, but are losing on nightmade difficulty, you need to adjust something.

Many have mentioned different characters, which is a no brainer, but I'd also suggest having multiple pets.

Currently, I roll with:

A Huntress Guardians for my Squire/Apprentice Builder.

I have an awesome Trans Genie (for tower upgrades) and Mythical Djinnlett (keeps invis/ps going) for the later waves for my Huntress.

Those will make all the difference, trust me.


Interesting catch 22 there. My pets lack but to get new pets I need to clear NM maps. :)

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I really do sympathize with the OP. There aren't many games that absolutely insist you have at least three or four max level characters to progress comfortably. The only players who are allowed to utilize a single character are DPS'ers, and they are restricted to playing in games with friends who are builders or praying for good PuG games which rarely present themselves.

As the builder in my core of friends, I often find myself wishing Nightmare and the game itself encouraged everyone to play one hero. The 30% was a nice start, but it kinda faltered off after that. Don't agree? Well consider this...

When the game was released, we had a four man team: 1 app for DPS towers, 1 squire tank for walls, 1 monk hybrid for auras and utility, and 1 huntress hybrid for dps and gas traps. The huntress and squire handled ogres, the monk boosted spots in times of need, and the app handled repairs. It was a TEAM EFFORT. All of our jobs were essential to move through insane campaign that first week, and it was awesome.

Nowadays, it's really just more effective to have one guy build everything and everyone else DPS's and repairs. Their jobs are still kinda important, I guess: except for how a couple of towers or even a hero pet can beat some of my more casual friends in Nightmare on dummy. (Companion Cube at 250k dps vs 250^ Ret hunter with 1200 HeroAttack only dishing out like 150-200). Furthermore, it's just plain easier to solo: I could pretty much AFK to wave 20+ in most survival maps now, but the moment I introduce a friend we're gonna need repairs and have to deal with 7.32 sharkens.

For that solo I need an : EV for walls, squire/app for towers, huntress for gas traps, and monk for ensnare auras, and finally dps monk for boost. Anything less than 5 heroes, and I'm crippling myself. Can you complete a lot of maps and survival with just say, an app/squire combo or ev/huntress? Sure. But you won't: because it would be infinitely harder than just afk'ing in Aquanos to get your 5 heroes to 78.

I think the OP's post, while clearly a rant and flamer bait, is a perfectly reasonable reason to be displeased with progression.

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Interesting catch 22 there. My pets lack but to get new pets I need to clear NM maps. :)


You can get awesome Seahorses from Insane HC Aquanos Survival. Excellent for taking down tough Bosses, and protecting you in general.

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Lots of walls of text that I skimmed. Squires are good, but if you have a nice app, then you're better getting an EV just to make walls and buff beams. It will help a lot.

In addition, if you're farming for myth, consider insane survival first. Myth will start to drop later waves, and on the shards (and jungle and city) packs, the pets can be very nice indeed on insane - give you an extra 100-300 points in key stats. Once you clear to 15, you can start from 13 (or 11 if that's easier) and get a range of pets.

If I can use a WoW analogy - back in day, there were lots of instances. You ran the 4 man ones to get gear to run against Onyxia, who was a mean old dragon, and maybe had a look in Molten Core. You slowly built your gear up, progessing a little further in each map, until you could farm them. It's them same here.

Don't go into nightmare until you've completed shards on insane - they'll give you pretty effective tutorial on each new monster type. Have a look at nightmare. If it's too hard, pop back to insane survival to get some pets and maybe some better gear. Then go back and try nightmare again.

If that's still a struggle, return to insane survival. Misty and Aqua are quite easy to solo. If those are too hard, try castle armoury or ramparts, or even glitter. Moraggo's a little harder to solo, just due to the size. Try some nightmare challenges too (raining goblins gives a nice app staff which could boost your stats significantly).

But yeah, for nightmare, you'll likely need a team of friends, or a stable of all 4 builders.

Progression is there, it's just harder than it's ever been to jump straight from insane campaign to insane nightmare.

As just to the guy who said - 1 person builds, everyone else repairs - not quite true. I tend to run a duo, and we split building duties. It's a good plan to have all your friends build something, because it help them spot holes, and tell you why something isn't working, not just that it isn't.

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You can get awesome Seahorses from Insane HC Aquanos Survival. Excellent for taking down tough Bosses, and protecting you in general.


And I can confirm this. I just got this off insane hc aquanos the other night:

http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/576703458570624179/74D2D47F01DCA6CCDF1C2D836BE62C7A18656B6D/

Better than probably any of the 20 - 30 nightmare pets I've gotten.

It can be kind of annoying when Trendy makes changes to older levels (especially since not all new enemies work on all maps, imo) but they have done quite a bit to fix progression, imo.

EDIT: And also on Aquanos you can try petting the Seahorses inbetween waves, every time I've played survival I've also walked away with one at least decent Apprentice or Huntress Guardian from it. Usually + to most hero/tower stats and enough upgrades to max their boost stats (not to mention some other random pets usually at least one of worth selling for a few mil). I'd imagine on Nightmare you can get even better ones.

I don't know, can someone who does Aqua on Nighmare confirm the type of loot they get from petting the seahorses?

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Remember: Nightmare is still pre-release. By no means is it complete. If it were, we wouldn't be GETTING all these new mobs semi-exclusive to it. You can complain about them moving the end goal, once all the new mobs are released. We still have 1-2 more core Shards maps (shard 4, and potentially a final Parent Rescue shard map, which could well have its own beasts), and then they have to balance that, and there's new heroes coming out... So, yeah, they keep pushing the Gotta Catch 'em All end goal.

But that's because it's still being built. Easy through Insane is a complete game. Stick to that if you can't cut it in nightmare and don't want to learn to adapt.

Obviously, people are able to complete all survival levels even with Sharken as they are, and with djinn, and with spiders, so there's nothing -wrong- with how the system plays, there. It's just challenging, and makes you have to play more and want to be stronger. And part of wanting to be stronger, involves buying the new character DLC. Is there even a valid survival build now, that would stand without EV buff beams?

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