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May 2012 Walls Moving Ruining Game


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Last week a patch was put in where walls are getting kicked off to the side and you lose. I personally know tons of players quitting the game. It has become completely pointless to run a survival game, because at any point, a wall willl be kicked aside and the game with end.

Trendy; we enjoy this game, this problem is losing you players at an exponential rate. You need to fix this immediately before 80% of your PC users are gone forever.

This and the incredible lack of decent armor (even in the 20+ rounds of NMHC) are the 2 worst things that have happened to DD in a long time (if not ever) and they've both happened in the last week.

I hope these are corrected so we can continue to enjoy this game; otherwise, it's time to move on.

Can I get an AMEN community? Please support this post; I'd really like to continue enjoying this game; it's been a blast up until this completely randomness making it pointless to play anymore.

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what?

Adjust your builds. They're pretty easy to counter with gas+ inferno/lightning


I guess you missed this thread.
http://forums.trendyent.com/showthread.php?60177-sharken-charging-from-gas-trap-stunned-state-in-7.32

but the op has a point,even if you could counter them in early stages later stages they will get through no matter what build we do.
it is stupid to have a tower defence and yet one mob can move it and cause end game.
whats the point in building and upgrading them if there going to be moved around.

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The amount of people playing the game (according to steam stats) disagrees with your assessment of DD losing players at a exponential rate. If you're having problems with walls that's one thing (as Delta stated, adjust your builds.)

Please don't try and scare trendy into making changes you want by claiming that 80% of their playerbase is going to stop playing: this simply is not the case.

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I don't know how many people are stopping playing, but recently I have had many sharken incidents and it really doesn't make gaming experience feel better. Sharkens seem way too random to fail game quickly.

To improve situation, I would suggest that they could push towers only forwards and much less distance than now. Another improvement could be that bouncers couldn't be moved by sharkens.

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I guess you missed this thread.
http://forums.trendyent.com/showthread.php?60177-sharken-charging-from-gas-trap-stunned-state-in-7.32

but the op has a point,even if you could counter them in early stages later stages they will get through no matter what build we do.
it is stupid to have a tower defence and yet one mob can move it and cause end game.
whats the point in building and upgrading them if there going to be moved around.


funnily enough i don't seem to have a problem with them

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Well, with the Indie Royale bundle including DD, there are at least 20k new players coming in quickly. I do agree with you in large part that Sharkens do need to be tweaked, e.g. when Gas traps are active and Sharkens run right through (targeted too late). I invested a ton in finding maxable trans tower HP for my EV, got her up over 3700, and a few days later, she was so much less useful than before, which was pretty frustrating from a time-effort-cost standpoint. Even with Gas Traps in place with a 2000 traptress, Sharkens still get at least a wall that jeopardizes a late-wave. Ehh, still a pretty fun game, but yes, unnecessarily frustrating at times due to the latest things (Sharkens, 9milHP-Fishvyrns, Ogres jumping walls). Glad it's a patchable game, though. haha imagine this on the Wii.

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[QUOTE]This and the incredible lack of decent armor (even in the 20+ rounds of NMHC) are the 2 worst things that have happened to DD in a long time [/QUOTE]

I don't know if Trendy is "losing players exponentially", and the 20k new players mentioned above will certainly skew the numbers. What I do know is that for me, progression is very difficult, moving walls are no fun, and I went from 100+j hours a week down to just a couple. I spend more time reading these forums than I do playing anymore. Just not as much fun as it used to be going nowhere and taking forever to get there.

I know it's not just me, but I don't know if its a big enough issue for Trendy to worry about. I have no regrets for buying this game and playing the heck out of it the last 6 months though. I certainly got my money's worth of fun and I may not be done yet.

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I don't know if Trendy is "losing players exponentially", and the 20k new players mentioned above will certainly skew the numbers. What I do know is that for me, progression is very difficult, moving walls are no fun, and I went from 100+j hours a week down to just a couple. I spend more time reading these forums than I do playing anymore. Just not as much fun as it used to be going nowhere and taking forever to get there.

I know it's not just me, but I don't know if its a big enough issue for Trendy to worry about. I have no regrets for buying this game and playing the heck out of it the last 6 months though. I certainly got my money's worth of fun and I may not be done yet.


I have to agree.
But i do regret buying the full shards dlc's,if i knew now with the sharks back then i def would have not bought it.

The numbers are only big now because of the indie bundle deal going on.
The number will soon dwindle when the events is over,and many ppl realise they cannot progress past low myth gear.

Only time will tell,but still trendy needs to find a better solution for these sharks imo.

The amount of people playing the game (according to steam stats) disagrees with your assessment of DD losing players at a exponential rate.


Indie bundle deal going on atm,of course it will show more players.

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I use less harpoons since Sharken and more traps (fortunately there seems to be less Djinns now). I consistently get to wave 20 on Castle Armory and Endless Squires (before I would only get to wave 14).

All my poons are buffed now and need to be set just far enough from walls to avoid ogres, yet close enough to spot a Sharken shuffling his feet.

My must have towers for NM (in order of importance):

Squire - harpoons
EV - buff beam, walls
Huntress - darkness trap (ogres), gas trap (djinns & sharken), proximity mines (spiders & other riff raff)
Monk - ensnare aura (need to try strength drain and electric aura since recent buffs)
Apprentice - magic wall (only used for spider bait)

I use harpoons, buff beam and EV walls on every lane. The choice of trap and aura depends on the map and location.

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I don't think the problem is that you can't deal with it, but it feels like a cheater ability because you have no time to react. It's not fun.

It's amazing how with every nightmare mob, they manage to decrease the variety of builds. Now, most survivals are build the crystal and spam the traps and auras. I think it'll be more interesting (and more variety) if they made maps and mobs that encouraged people to spread their towers all over the map. A good start would be to allow building on top of buildings/rooftops, remove tower shifting from sharken, remove unsummon ability from djinn,and add in some more interesting mobs, like mobs with high generic resistance (but low elementals), mobs that try to mimic whatever attack they got hit with, and mobs that glue together with other mobs to create one big angry hp monster (that falls apart as you hit it).

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Indie bundle deal going on atm,of course it will show more players.


Considering that DD is usually hovering around 6k plays in a day, the bundle deal has little to nothing to do with it. Don't take my word for it though, check it out yourself:

http://steamstatshistory.appspot.com/list

As you can see, DD had it's lowest amount of plays on 3/15 which was well before Sharken were released. If you look at the history of plays it's always the same; new content is released, play count spikes. People stop playing because spiders/djinn/sharken/nightmare/etc is too hard and the number stabilizes. This is no exception and when they people who can't handle Sharken are done playing there will still be people about.

The number of plays next week is going to drop by a large amount when D3 comes out. It's to be expected and people will point and say "SEE! EVERYBODY IS LEAVING BECAUSE OF SHARKEN!" Same thing happened when Skyrim came out.

This is NOT the first time the sky has fallen, see for yourself:

http://forums.trendyent.com/showthread.php?24939-Steam-game-stats

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Considering that DD is usually hovering around 6k plays in a day, the bundle deal has little to nothing to do with it. Don't take my word for it though, check it out yourself:

http://steamstatshistory.appspot.com/list

As you can see, DD had it's lowest amount of plays on 3/15 which was well before Sharken were released. If you look at the history of plays it's always the same; new content is released, play count spikes. People stop playing because spiders/djinn/sharken/nightmare/etc is too hard and the number stabilizes. This is no exception and when they people who can't handle Sharken are done playing there will still be people about.

The number of plays next week is going to drop by a large amount when D3 comes out. It's to be expected and people will point and say "SEE! EVERYBODY IS LEAVING BECAUSE OF SHARKEN!" Same thing happened when Skyrim came out.

This is NOT the first time the sky has fallen, see for yourself:

http://forums.trendyent.com/showthread.php?24939-Steam-game-stats


and yet people could still be leaving because of sharken, they're just waiting for something better to come.

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Alot of sharken issues would be solved if the damn towers actually targeted a charging sharken instead of a useless ogres that has been walking in place for the last 10 secs. How Sharken arnt top priority for towers whether charging or not I will never understand. Auras and traps are only good for so long until stats come into play. At higher survival waves, the mobs can get really jammed up in gas traps and if your auras/traps arnt strong to kill quickly then you end up with an inevitable sharken charge.

And instead of nerfing sharken, they need to add another method/ other methods to deal with them. Is this how its gonna be? Every new mob is gonna be stopped by a gas trap and only a gas trap? Also I dont know why trendy are so quick to bring the nerf hammer every time some new mob is added when it would be better to give the player more options as to how to deal with them. The last two enemy additions have really stifled layout creativity cause every lane needs a gas trap and a dark trap minimum. 6 Du down the drain just like that, multiply that by the number of lanes and thats anywhere from 18-24 DU.

All this started when trendy got a hard on for instant layout failure mobs like the Djinn and Sharken. You'd think one would be enough for now and then have the next new enemy a bit more unique but no, instead we get another Djinn in sharks clothing, literally.

Tin foil hat time: I reckon the reason trendy have gone silent on the sharken issue is cause the new summoner DLC has a pretty effective method of stopping sharkens or at least fortifying defenses against them and thus let people progress higher in survival. Why bother fixing your game when you just have people buy the fix instead. EV was a "progress" DLC cause before that alot of people wouldnt even dream of doing solo survival past wave 15 but after she got released, it was not uncommon for people to solo to high waves in NMHC. So the precedent is there. I really want to be proved wrong here but I dont see any other reason why they cant add a simple tower priority fix to sharken, especially when they were much more aggressive with fixing the Djinns.

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Thanks for the responses; in general; people agree that it's less fun to play when a wall could fly of the board at any moment. Even the people that aren't all the way agreeing with my post are admitting to cutting back hours. The fun has been reduced, bottom line.

Just an FYI:

We're using a combination of ensnare, EV walls, buff beams on all towers, etc. Misty is the latest one we've been working with and we can go to rnd 12 some games, 20 others, it all depends on when the random; "welp, wall just slid off the bridge hanging over the river in mid-air and some crap got through; game over) - another hour wasted.

No amount of strategy, tweaking, etc. will fix this from the games. If at any point a wall flying off the board can end you're game, there's quickly no point to any build what-so-ever.

Note: We're talking NMHC here, survival on the newer maps. Anyone commenting not playing at this level yet isn't understanding the point. The fun at this level comes form running long surivival games, getting into the 20+ levels, and praying that some decent gear drops (at this point since the patches, no matter what level we make it to, decent gear seems to be a thing of the past).

I'm all for the game being challenging, great gear being more rare, etc. - but not when I can spend 60-90 minutes only to get to those higher levels and MAYBE having a chance of an upgrade dropping, only to have a wall fly off and waste the last 60-90 minutes of my life.

I have no problem with the other user's suggestion either; walls get nudged back (like the boss on throne room) - something you can react to, deal with, etc. - makes it exciting. It's the Whoosh, wall gone, crystal dead (1.5 seconds) - game over after spending all this time learning, gearing up, and tweaking builds - random game over at any time = just dumb.

I do want a challenge, I think most games are nerfed down to the new younger whiny generation of "want it all and now" mentalit:; so make things rare, make it tough, just don't make it pointless (walls flying away and game ending anytime and there's NOTHING you can do about it, but move on to a different game).

My hope is Trendy understands this and patches it; I don't want to give up on the game, it is a ton of fun; otherwise, I wouldn't bother to write this plea to save it.

Thanks again...

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Wow. Really? Wow.

Yes there are issues with the Sharken still but honestly, the thing you are complaining about is what they are there for. Just plan ahead to compensate for it and keep playing. It may take a while but you know what? This game shouldn't be a game that just gives you a victory without you even having trouble.

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and yet people could still be leaving because of sharken, they're just waiting for something better to come.


And that's fine; when those people leave there will still be a player base ready for Part 4. When Part 4 is released there will still be people flocking on the forums screaming about how *Insert Whatever Here* has ruined the game forever and if Trendy does not fix it then they are going to lose 80% of their players. Like I said, this is not the first time the sky has fallen and it won't be the last.

My advise: If you can't handle the sharken then just stop playing. They are here to stay and that's that.

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Love how people are crying about the sharken when it isn't the first time the new mobs have "ruined" the game. Remember the first time spiders were released or djinn? It takes time to balance them out but not nerf them to the point of useless and you wonder why they even bothered putting it in. Those that are complaining about sharken now probably had no idea of how bad DEW's were before they got nerfed and would literally 1 shot people who were geared or would wreck a tower before you even had a chance to save it. I mean come on, give it some time. I do understand there are some bugs to the game, like sharken charging while stunned, but seriously? I mean some people are asking for their removal or complete nerf when they just need to tweak what it does.

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I like how OP doesn't even mention sharken. It's just some magical force that moves your walls

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I do Aqua MM survival starting at 18 a lot. I don't usually complete it, but if I play well I can get pretty far with mediocre stats.

Also, a wall getting charged isnt INSTANT LOSS like everyone seems... If a Shark happens to charge, which does occasionally happen, you just kite the ogre or turn him around and tank him. Yeah you might need to be on a dps character with some resists, but you probably should have that if you are doing high level mm nm hc..

I'm just tired of hearing "my wall got charged and instant gg and this is no fun". The most fun I have is when something goes wrong and I have to actually react. Its not over instantly, you can recover, and it sure as hell beats sitting on a cluster of towers with a guardian on hitting g every once and a while.

Overall, this game is getting more depth and more action. If people are looking for a static afk tower d game, this probably isnt for you.

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I don't think the sharken have ruined the game.
Honestly, we have no uber stats and I have to say, the Djinns had been the bigger problem to deal with.

But however, I've noticed too that Sharken sometimes ignore the gas traps and just
play Tetris with the defense.
That need to be fixed.

And imho fish-wyvern are the new old DEW. :)

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Love how people are crying about the sharken when it isn't the first time the new mobs have "ruined" the game. Remember the first time spiders were released or djinn? It takes time to balance them out but not nerf them to the point of useless and you wonder why they even bothered putting it in. Those that are complaining about sharken now probably had no idea of how bad DEW's were before they got nerfed and would literally 1 shot people who were geared or would wreck a tower before you even had a chance to save it. I mean come on, give it some time. I do understand there are some bugs to the game, like sharken charging while stunned, but seriously? I mean some people are asking for their removal or complete nerf when they just need to tweak what it does.

i love how geared people are saying they're not broken, when i am geared myself and when they're stunned in my gas trap and still starting to charge i wonder how anyone is even beating them.

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i love how geared people are saying they're not broken, when i am geared myself and when they're stunned in my gas trap and still starting to charge i wonder how anyone is even beating them.


I love how people don't even read other peoples' posts; they just bash it and invent a completely imaginative summary for what it actually was. Stierz. Kijiyama NEVER SAID SHARKEN DIDN'T HAVE BALANCE ISSUES. He said ALL new mobs have had some adjustment time, both from players and balancing. He's right about Dark Elf Warriors (DEW) too.

Read what Kijiyama said, (I would say, "again," except you've never even read it based on what you responded with):

Originally Posted by Kijiyama View Post
Love how people are crying about the sharken when it isn't the first time the new mobs have "ruined" the game. Remember the first time spiders were released or djinn? It takes time to balance them out but not nerf them to the point of useless and you wonder why they even bothered putting it in. Those that are complaining about sharken now probably had no idea of how bad DEW's were before they got nerfed and would literally 1 shot people who were geared or would wreck a tower before you even had a chance to save it. I mean come on, give it some time. I do understand there are some bugs to the game, like sharken charging while stunned, but seriously? I mean some people are asking for their removal or complete nerf when they just need to tweak what it does.

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While I agree sharken aren't op their mechanic is broken. OK bosses moving defenses, fine it's a boss. That's one thing that makes it a boss and a bit more of a challenge. However a mob should not be given something that can instantly wreck a game. If the towers were to move out of the way for a few moments or the mob jumped the defense then fine. Howerever giving the mob an ability that makes non uber geared players no reason to put walls down or upgrade them cause is just poor game design. Just my opinion.

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