Jump to content

[Request] Please remove the player damage debuff from nightmare!


Recommended Posts

Ok so I completely understand why hero damage got nerfed in nm to begin with.. it was to encourage more use of towers and strategy - to ensure the game stays tower defense and not rpg...

However... I think with the release of EV, buff beams and ever increasing power to pets, towers, soon the new summoner class - the use of dps toons is becoming pretty useless in high end nm games. To the point that many dps players get kicked from joining games, as they are now so unneccasary.

I am requested a re-balancing to give power back to the dps players - let heros do the same damage in nm that they do in other game modes. I think its a little sad that at the moment the highest dps is actually achieved by fielding powerful pets, not from player damage.

If not a full removal of the nm damage debuff - then at least a reduction?

Please post comments and opinions but keep it civil :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I posted about this at least 10 times so here is my point in a few words:

high-end hunter DPS: 25k per hit, 300k dps in nightmare with 2 projectiles (LOL)
1 average tower (electric aura/harpoon...) - 1M dps with under-average stats (electric aura ticks for 30k+ with monk buff+ev buff)

so yea, 300k dps on high-end hunter and your presence doubles the mob count (2 vs 3 players)

is this a joke or what Trendy?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think the debuff should at least be removed (or very much lessened) for the barbarian if nothing else. He seems pretty much worthless. He should get some perk over the characters since he's the only one that can't build defenses.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I voted for no cause I think its just right as it is. You wouldnt need towers anymore except maybe walls anymore if you could make 3m DPS and more in NM.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think it needs tweaking to be perfectly honest. Doing a 6th of the damage I can normally do feels like my barb is being robbed. Doing a 4th or so would feel better as I started off in my group as the DPS char but whatever, it's TE's decision. I miss going DPS! :/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The point of nightmare is to have a challenge...There is a reason why it's called Nightmare mode and not Fluffy Dream Mode.

That's why I voted no.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
get a dps/boost monk, you won't get kicked

Go in surv with a tower toon, you will get kicked, go in with dps, the guy probably will be happy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I see why they nerfed it, I see why it should stay nerfed though it could possibly do with a little rebalancing. When someone first moves up into nightmare DPS is in no way an option, staying alive means not getting hit a few times but with the dps stats I have now (1.8k damage/hp and 90/85/75/75 resists on my main dps set) it is enough to clear a lane in any campaign mode and keep it clear without assistance, or to kill an annoying survival ogre or two. This is with my stats, wayyy less than what some have.

From this I think it's clear that it DEFINITELY doesn't want to be completely removed, as doing 6x that much damage would make the game a joke, but aslight buff would make dps far more viable, particularly with respect to those just entering nightmare.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
i voted for lessen the effect.. why? well nightmare is there for a challenge.. if we dps do have full power again then nightmare is going to be a real joke... then we can do 4m if more dps then ogre's are a laugh to..

i do have a high-end barbarian doing up to 4.5m dps in tavern up to 1m dmg per hit (combo-hit) in nightmare he is still doing up to 50k dmg per hit (combo-hit) its more a challenge and more fun.. BUT it would help better if we got a slightly dmg increase.

it would help lower geared players a lot for there progression in nightmare if the dmg is increased slightly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thank you for all your input and comments, there really have been some great suggestions and explainations here. Indeed you have changed my view on the matter slightly...

I still feel the debuff needs to be tweaked, so that dps toons dont deal less damage than equally well geared; pets, towers, traps, auras...dare I say summoner-controlled creatures in the next update?

While I love the feeling that towers (in a tower defense game) are the most important thing to keep upgraded and alive - lending the most strategic importance to the game, I still wouldn't mind seeing dps toons able to do a little more.

That, or that dps pets should do less than their masters. It personally bugs me that in nm my monkey can do more than a fully geared, jetpacking bounty hunter armed to the teeth.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I voted no. Back in the days, when DD came out, DPS was way too overpowered. 4 Huntresses could easily hold Summit Insane (Yes Nightmare didn't exist then). Ogres were down in a few seconds (I could kill 1 of the 2 ogres on Summit per Wave, before he even got out of the Spawnzone)

I kind of like it in Nightmare DPS wise. Imagine it would be different. Say a Huntress could deal 5 mil DPS on Nightmare. Resistances wouldn't even be needed. Just stay on a safe spot and click that left Mousebutton until you are bored out of your mind.
You can still deal a lot of DPS right now, normal mobs are down in a second, even Djinns and Sharks don't take that long. You have to work a little bit for Ogres, but that is how it should be in my opinion.
DPS Toons are still useful, but not for killing, more for kiting, distracting, repairing and upgrading. If you don't like that, play Insane and enjoy a Towerless game with no challenge.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
@nibbi - thats a little bit of a closed minded comment... I've been playing since before nm as well, and i think what's coming out from the comments here is not that the debuff should be completely removed, nor left as it is... Something inbetween would be nice, but where dps toons do NOT do 4mil dps, and are not OP.

Let me ask you this, do you think its ok that monks buffing dps pets can do 4mil dps?
I think if anything should do high dps, its dps toons.... logically.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Let me ask you this, do you think its ok that monks buffing dps pets can do 4mil dps?
I think if anything should do high dps, its dps toons.... logically.


But then also the DPS Toon deals more damage and the Pet damage scales with the hero damage. Also what is closed minded about my comment? I just stated, that it is not really a challenge, if a DPS Char can clear out everything himself and right now, there is a good inbetween in nightmare. You can kill normal mobs relativley fast, but you have to work for bigger ones.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Go play on insane difficulty, nightmare isn't supposed to be easy.
You're talking to the leader of futuretech... I'm pretty sure he's done everything there is to do in this game on nm hc, lol.

On topic: I voted yes, but there is some additional commenting required to justify my vote. I believe that at this moment the special shards mobs force to much players to use the "perfect" build, where towers are usually what kills special mobs like it's nothing.

I would like to see special mobs being more resistant to tower damage. This way you could make use of more tower variety to keep the big mobs in check temporarily, while lane clearing is still largely done by towers. The higher player dps can then be used to kill off the special mobs.

This would also require a change to how these spawn, however. It's not uncommon to see around 100 djinn or so in a wave. It would be cool to have them appear as some sort of mini boss in higher NM waves. When they appear and the player is alerted by the "A djinn/ogre/sharken has arrived" message, your damage reduction is temporarily lessened or removed, and players have to work together and use dps toons to kill the special enemy before they tear apart your towers, which would cause trash mobs to kill your crystal.

I will probably make a seperate thread on this in a bit. The whole concept has been lingering in my thoughts for a while now. Will probably be posted in patch notes, since this forum seems to always get overlooked. (sadly) Could be something cool to add to mixed mode or hc mode only, while leaving normal NM as it is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
my barb would do 2 much dps if they just got rid of it, I mean...If there was a monk near me, I'd 1 shot ogres with my 0. They should lessen it some though because atm, I only play monk because of the boosts and the pet and that would definitely let me play something else for once.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Go play on insane difficulty, nightmare isn't supposed to be easy.


Lol I didn't start this thread because I haven't earnt the transcendent survivalist trophy, or because I can't solo every map in the game to victory...

It's because a) It really bugs me to see a pet, which I feel should just be adding to your own stats and damage output- doing twice the damage I can dish out.

b) in a lot of games it's all about the towers and not enough fps action for my liking; while on insane it's a little more like that... Stops you getting bored to death between waves, and justifies the 312^s gun you paid 5bil in the forums for!

Now when I have accused players of being closed minded here - its because they take 10secs to scan over the thread and then typically post: "If they changed the player damage then nm would be too easy, my toon would do 24mil dps etc etc etc."

Well I'm asking you to think about whether adjustment is needed - I'm not talking in absolutes... A very minor increase in player damage, with possibly a nerf to pet damage would change gameplay significantly. I like the idea of it being players who have to race around the map gunning down ogres, rather than leaving it to towers or their pets :)

Thanks for all your comments so far - and please no more silly posts sayin "If it's too hard for you go play easy mode" lol... Theres no content FUTURETECH haven't beaten so far!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Pet damage needs to go down and player damage needs to go way up. A harpoon with good stats does about 100k-120k DPS per DU. Going with the Ranger example, the player is worth 3 DU and the pet might be worth another 6 or so. For Insane, the DU value of player DPS was way too high, but now it's far too little.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Pet damage needs to go down and player damage needs to go way up. A harpoon with good stats does about 100k-120k DPS per DU. Going with the Ranger example, the player is worth 3 DU and the pet might be worth another 6 or so. For Insane, the DU value of player DPS was way too high, but now it's far too little.


Precisely my point :-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I agree a rebalance is needed. Beating bosses because I've got a good pet is silly :(

More player dps is a must to keep the uniqueness of the game. atm I build my stuff and sit almost afk on my builder asides from repairs or loot runs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
i have a transcendent dragon with 10005 dmg, it can do 200k+ with its 3 shots
i have 2 transcendent weapons, both are either 15000 or 25000 dmg, i forget which
i barely do 100k per attack, my pet easily out dpses me by so much its not funny.

i would much rather have a pet that i want to use than one that i have to use. i say rebalance it so that pet and player dps switch.

im getting to wave 20+ again on misty sense i moved a giraffe to my trapper, because of how i have to position towers to deal with sharks, my towers rarely take out enemies besides the ogers, im on my barbarian and mowing down everything else, and i cant even take out my dps pet till around wave 15 or so because of how much upgrading i have to do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I wish dps on player and pet was reversed for nightmare mode too... It would actually make it tougher, as your pet can often kill enemies easily while you repair, upgrade etc - but it would be much more fun to be dishing out that damage yourself!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
i dont agree, you cant compare an TTB+TBd eleaura to dps damage, especially a non CTA/HB'd huntress
my squire out DPS' one of my lvl 1 harpoons (countess), bloodraged circular slice does 1.4mil if both hit (and he has terrible stats - 1khealth/1kdamage... less on ability stats)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...