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Jason Begley

Flaws in the game that trendy is ignoring.. and NEEDS to fix eventually....

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as opposed to ignoring them entirely.
and for those that will immediatly call my thread BS.. go elsewhere.. im looking to fix BROKEN mechanics.. not appease the whining players set in thier abuse of bugs and glitches and imbalances.

•Spiked Walls NEED an AoE damage effect as opposed to directional.
Paired with a minor HP boost because most perfer NOT to use them.. OR.. use them backwards where enemies will ignore them totally but still cant walk past them. This alone is an exploit that needs to be fixed ASAP.

•Harpoons need a "weakness/flaw" they pierce and each enemy hit takes full damage. high range.. higher RoF.. almost never misses.. high health.. fast to aim.. no elementally immune enemies. They have NO weaknesses.. period. in fact nearly every "farming" build any more relies on them 100%. Cut thier base RoF in half.. or remove thier Pierce Ability to bring it down in line with other turrets in the game. Bolling balls are meant to be crowd control damage.. and SnD are meant to be high DPS up close. Not when 'poons can outdo them both at range.

•Hero Squire.. Nerf the strength stat/dps ramps by 25-30%. Its sad when the "wall/tank" can out DPS the barbarian with the exact same gear swapped between them... and boosting the barbs damage any farther would make it too excessign in its damage capabilities.. the only solution.. scale back the squires damage ramps to be below the barbarians

•Mana Bomb.. still far from being on par with ANY of the skills that other classes offer. 8-10k on average 1 use AOE per 45 seconds for 400 mana. too mana expensive early game to be a viable use compared to tower upgrades. while easily cheap late game.. the weak damage and 45 second cooldown again makes it a worthless choice then spending on tower upgrades or just attacking the mobs yourself. Lowering the cooldown would cause for excessive spamming.. 4 mages using this could cause a real imbalance. Only viable solution.. 50% or so boost to the ramps.. so that it becomes a far more viable skill to use in emergencies late game aka nightmare levels.

•Lightning Towers.. RoF causing towers to fire off in longer chains is actually making the towers less viable. Explination. When an enemy in the chain dies.. it links to a new enemy that is CLOSEST to the END of the chain... NOT the enemy CLOSEST to the tower itself.. causing any enemies the tower has skipped over or has walked past the chains end to be ignored untill the chain finally ends its duration and the tower fires again. adding a buff bean can up to tripple the duration of this lightning bolt.. greatly allowing more and more enemies to slip past the chains damage area.
Possible Solutions..
One bolt per enemy the tower hits.. sadly this would cause quite the graphical oversight for the tower itself.. both cluttering the screen.. and the lag it would cause... reducing this solutions viability to nothing.
Solution two Involves the RoF stat not making each bolt longer lasting.. but SHORTER lasting in duration...this allows the tower to continually reset itself and focus on the closer enemies as opposed to ones half way across the map where its 40+ chain has led to. The problem is the DPS lost in all that no firing downtime.. to offset this.. the number of ticks per second is GREATLY increased as well as a minor damage multiplier to compensate for the added downtime... ballance these two out to where a LT as is.. does the same MAX damage for its full duration timewise in current coding.. as it would for the greatly shortened bolt. IE..300k damage for a current single bolt over 60 seconds.. should still average 300k OVER 60 seconds int he new code but fire off 6-10 bolts instead thus total overall DPS would remain the same... but would consistantly focus on NEARBY enemies.. and not skipping over ones walking by at high speed.

•Deadly Striker Towers.. Once the pierce is removed from harpoons.. give them to these guys. it would go a LONG way of making them more viable for use in game. they fire through walls but this is only "usefull" in one map.. servants quarters. they have more range then any tower.. this is NEVER really "usefull" as with hundereds of enemies on screen.. theres ALWAYS something close by unless its the end of a map and theres just 3-6 enemies trickling out at a time. Its got the WORST rate of fire of anything in the game including walls.. its damage can be matched with other towers for the same DU cost.. its DU is higher then any other tower.. and it also has the narrowest field of view. Where the harpoon has no weaknesses.. the DST has no strengths.
Possible Solutions..
...Add piercing damage and give a 20% damage boost. this will give it back more use agasint super enemies.. and a couple enemies around it.. while the high DU cost.. narrow firing ark.. and abysimal RoF ensures it wont be able to dominate the field with the boosted damage and pierce.
...Reduce the DU cost to 6/7 and boost the Rof by at LEAST 50% of not double it. it only hits one target.. and even at a 6DU in large groups.. for total DPS on ALL enemies the fireball will still always come out on top... but it will at least be of great use vs bosses, ogres, djin, and wyverns.

•Elemental weapons. Add the hero stat boost to them to compensate for the elemental damage reduction AND stat cap reduction that was given so many months back. This will make the multiple element weapons your comming out with like the depth charge and other aqua weapons... giving people a possible REASON to level the elemental stat as opposed to fully ignoring them on NM games because of the countless immunities. Its also not fair to punnish those using elemental weapons with weaker skill damage like the EVs charge beam which is based off the PHYSICAL damage stat of a weapon.. NOT its combined total damage output of elemental weapons.

•Puzzle of the Deep Challenge. When a player joins.. gets chosen as the puzzle solver.. and that player leaves BEFORE solving the puzzle... the game will not chose another to solve the puzzle. it leaves the stage flooded. This is a HUGE oversight and in dificulties like NM mode.. makes the challenge needlessly difficult becuase of a griefer or a random dissconect.

•NPC Shop.........
-Soft Cap preventing sales.
THIS is beyond dumb.. i understand the concept behind it. preventing a store from selling once thier hard cap is met to keep from wasted items is in heart in the shop owners best interest. BUT with eggs and acessories being wold at 500-600m a pop.. that shop only has to sell 7 items before his entire stock is greyed out.. this is causing over 2/3rds of shops now to be "locked" and useless. increasing the hard cap will only make it worse.. as people will charge more for thier wares.. and inflations already gotten too far out of hand. This is cutting supply and demand to pieces.. goods cant move.. so demand grows.. yet supplies CANNOT move.. and thus prices go up.
Possible solutions..
Remove the cap... yes this allows for mana to be wasted but this falls on the shop owners responsibility.. NOT the costumers. this will force owners to manage thier shops more properly and move more product down the line.
Add a function that AUTOMATICALLY removes the shop from the "search list" when the shops reached its cap and can no longer sell anything. meaning any shop from the shops list you enter.. you know immediatly your actually ABLE to buy something instead of seeing a locked out inventory.

-Challenge weapon unlocks.
just as it does for event maps holiday maps.. and pets.. when you complete a games challenge and gain its weapon.. ALLOW it to be purchased and appear in the NPCs shop list randomly. This gives people an oppertunity though rare.. to get mythical.. trans.. and supreme versions of weapons that might ONLY be available in normal/hard challenges.. and thus high quality versions are otherwise impossible to get.

-NPC quality boost.
And a BIG boost at that. VERY early game.. the npc shop was a great place to get upgrades.. locking in a pet that you knew would help you out once you could afford it. Now most just ignore the shop.. 99 times out of 100 it gives you 3 items of crap that would have been removed from the floor from the auto process of value elimination on floors 5+ before what you died on. The NPC shop GREATLY needs a quality item asessment boost to bring it up to par with the challenged and missions your completing.
theres No reason people comming back from wave 15+ of Nightmare.. are only seeing items in the shop valuing 100k-150k.
If the missions floor is only dropping mythicals 3m+ in value.. theres no reason when we get back to shop we shoudlent see EVERYTHING in the shop having a MIN value of 1m+ with a chance of going up to 5m+
this includes Trans and Supremes. Dont makes these common.. but if they start dropping on the ground.. we need at least a CHANCE for them to appear in the shop as well.
Nothing will be lost if the shop quality is brought up to PAR with the events we are playing.
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edited for additional content
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• Hunter/Huntress Mage/Adept and EV/BH are INCAPABLE of aiming down when on level ground at ranges of about 15m or closer. Get any projectile hero.. aim directly at your feet.. and shoot.. you shoot level with the ground. Generally this is not a problem.. but if you have multiple spiders at your feet attacking you. your not capable of hitting them at all unless you either A get out of that 15m minimum range so you can finally start to aim downwards.. or B jump upwards and back a bit to automatically break the auto leveling coding while mid jump and then fire down at the spiders.
Solutions.. remove the auto level coding to enable people to more effectively shotgun spiders... or raise a spiders hitbox JUST enough that they can be shot with this aiming annoyance. Preferably the former as changing the hitbox allways makes a mess of things.

• Arronax Mage Staffs Glow effect is severly off center when used by the EV/BH hero.. resulting it being offset onto the avatars left hip instead of by the gun.

• EV/BH "call out" is significantly quieter then the other heroes "hey-o" and 9 times out of 10 when used in an emergency situation during the heat of battle.. is left unheard.

• Cartoon Edge Shading.. its single handedly the most resource intensive effect in the entire game.. causing the PCs resources to render the same polygons many times over for the layered effect. At first this wasent a problem. but in later maps.. with hundereds of enemies on map and 8 people in a room.. its causing massive slowdown on everyones end.. even more so for the host.
Changing levels or Alt Tabbing briefly then returning to game confirms this when the toon outline is always the last thing to load.. and FPS is often down on a return till that shader fully kicks in.
A singular option in "graphics" that turns this toon shader outline OFF could save a great deal of resources without comprimising the rest of the games visual quality when theres just too many polys being rendered for lower end machines.

•Buyback feature for shops...for accidential sales.. or when the game decides that a sell of one item means everything in your shop.. including some of the locked ones >.>

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You complaining about some random things and then offering solutions that would not work on so many levels does not equal ignored flaws.


people abusing the spiked walls bug and trendy not fixing it is certainly an ignored flaw.. as is the aquanos puzzle bug.. the crushed economy in game is certainly being ignored and needs to be adressed.. poons not having a drawback is certainly been overlooked.

and you posting a few unintelligent words with NO reference to what you feel is inaccurate.. or HOW my suguested fix would break anything.. just shows your inability to contribute ANYthing of use to this thread.

thus this thread is clearly not for you.. as i said.. this thread is to fix things.. not to cater to closed minded players.

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Spiked Walls: Clearly being used in a way that wasn't intended, surprised Trendy hasn't fixed it already.
Solution: Allow the AI to attack spiked walls like they should, whether from the front or back. Also make the spikes do more damage to discourage people from placing them backwards.

Harpoons: Pwn pretty much everything, only disadvantage is line of sight requirement. They also make dps heroes useless, because a single harpoon can out dps a high stat hero.
Solution: Limit the pierce to 2-3 enemies, equalize the dps with other towers.

Squire: The squire has always been OP. High health, high damage, towers that can fend off any attack.
Solution: Nerf the squire. Period.

Lightning Towers: Not enough experience to know for sure.
Solution: Leaving it up for people with mages to discuss

Deadly Strike Towers: About as useful as the huntress' ethereal lightning trap, which you should also add to the list.
Solution: Add pierce to deadly strike towers and a damage boost to ethereal traps in addition to a small AoE.

Elemental Weapons: Does anyone really use elemental weapons, unless they have a strength drain or darkness trap at all the spawns? Sure, the upgrades add a lot more damage, but when you do ZERO damage to about 1/3 of the mobs, you're screwed. Every gun I've bought has been non-elemental.
Solution: Make enemies have resistance to elemental damage, not immunity.

Puzzle of the Deep: Seriously, wtf? I don't think I need to say anything that the OP didn't already say.
Solution: Fix the god dam.ned challenge.

Shop soft cap: Locking out sales because the host has too much money is stupid. However, I think the soft cap is to prevent people from hacking huge amounts of mana, ruining the already messed up economy.
Solution: As the OP said, remove shops with capped mana from the shop selection. Also, let shoppers see the stats of locked items. That way high end equips don't have to lay around on the floor and people can leave offers for equips.

Challenge Items: Grinding the same challenge over and over sucks epically.
Solution: Add unlocked challenge gear to core drops, simple.

NPC Quality Boost: Seriously, has anyone ever found a good item from the NPC?
Solution: Increase the probability of quality items. Also, increase the NPC's inventory to at least 12 items rather than the pathetic 3.

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Agreed!

How about sharken inadvertently helping players? I was on royal quarters with a friend and a sharken smacked a Phys barrier into the stairs , it was stopping mobs but they couldn't hurt the barrier. Also the fact of the Squire being able to Out DPS the DPS class barbarian if given the same exact gear ( even with the extra Weapon giving the barb better stats ). Theres plenty of things that need fixing but why are they not getting fixed ?

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Spiked Walls: Clearly being used in a way that wasn't intended, surprised Trendy hasn't fixed it already.
Solution: Allow the AI to attack spiked walls like they should, whether from the front or back. Also make the spikes do more damage to discourage people from placing them backwards.


Any time I have done this everything and anything has still attacked it. Maybe whatever I put behind it just does not kill stuff fast enough.

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I, disagree with most of the post, nerfing the whole squire thing is awfull, would just make the game suck.

EDIT: finally, I disagree with pretty much everything, maybe you would like that, but most players would not. Thank you

(I feel like you will rage on me...)

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Here is my concern about people thinking squires need to be nerfed...Why? I mean if you wanna be the DPS class don't play with people who use squires, Don't wanna be OD by a squires towers? don't play with a Tower Squire.

The fact that you are comparing a Squire to a Barbarian is just...nvm. But the fact remains, if a squire can out DPS your barbarian why does that even make a difference? Your barbarian will outlive him with his stances. The way I see it...People need to quit comparing one class the rest of the other classes. Don't like a certain class? don't play with people who use them. It's like comparing Superman to the rest of the Justice League.

Squire - Superman
Huntress - Batman
Apprentice - Zatana
Monk - Aquaman

-_- lol I'm obsessed with this example.


HE stated.. which you failed to read.. as i stated.. in my first post which you also seemed to fail to read.
A squire... of LVL-74.. is given set of armor-A and a weapon.
Squire goes to town on tavern dummy.
the guy then takes that SAME set of armor.. and weapon.. removes it... and gives it to the barbarian.
Barbarian equips it all.. AND an additional sword.. thus boosting his overall stats over the squires.
Barb goes to town on the training dummy.
The barb does considerably LESS DPS then the squire with the SAME GEAR.

the Squire is the "tank" of the classes with high health and the ability to block. as well as towers sporting the most health.
The Barbarian.. foregoes towers for dual weapons and stances meant to make him the most devestating melee character int he game.. aka "will it blend"

the complaint here.. is that the tank.. should NOT be in every sense of the word.. OUT DPSing the intended melee Expert.. by considerable margins.

so... please.. till you can learn to properly read a post word for word.. and comprehend its meaning.
Back off till you can remain on the same subject everyone else is discussing.. or at least come up with something a little more constructive then "dont like it then dont play with them."


-Chpoit.. you spoke your peace to a point.. and no reason to hate on you for that.. but can you perhaps point out what you dont like.. and why?do you think somethings not broken.. do you think the suguested fixes arent approperiate? nothing wrong with positive or negative feedback here as long as its constructive and intelligent.

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Well in that case why not Nerf Every Class? Lets make them all equal in every way. This way if everyone wears the same armor they can all do the exact same dmg no matter what build they make.

Let's nerf all the tower skills so that they all do the same amount of damage. better yet let's just cap each towers max damage at 2900 this way no one can say one tower is unfair to the other.

Yeah, Nerfing is great isn't it? Seriously does it matter if a squire can Out DPS a barbarian? I mean hell I want Hunters and Monks Nerfed because they Out-DPS my squire. So let's just nerf everything and put them all on the same fence with the same equal stats with no special class related boost.

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Well in that case why not Nerf Every Class? Lets make them all equal in every way. This way if everyone wears the same armor they can all do the exact same dmg no matter what build they make.

Let's nerf all the tower skills so that they all do the same amount of damage. better yet let's just cap each towers max damage at 2900 this way no one can say one tower is unfair to the other.

Yeah, Nerfing is great isn't it? Seriously does it matter if a squire can Out DPS a barbarian? I mean hell I want Hunters and Monks Nerfed because they Out-DPS my squire. So let's just nerf everything and put them all on the same fence with the same equal stats with no special class related boost.


Again , Read and comprehend before you reply. Here is the simple version since you apparently cannot read and comprehend.

When the barbarian was released he was created to be the Brute force , No tower , 100% pure DPS. He was our out dps everything pure muscle. And that was something to be excited about but in return we got a disapointment , Dont get me wrong i love the barbarian but he just wasnt up to par. The pure and Simple fact is , He needs to be tweeked to be what he was anticipated to be. If you reread the original post youll notice i'm not saying kill the squire off completely on the DPS meter i'm saying just take them down a hair.After all they already have Broken towers as noted on the 1st page. Again for the record i do respect the squire as a builder.

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Well why not instead of nerfing the squire why not just buff up the barbarian by 80%? I understood clearly so don't look down on me. The thing I was trying to say is...Why should a player like me who likes to solo be punished just because someone thinks the squire does to much damage on both ends and is more powerful than the new class that is supposed to be DPS only?

I like the barbarian don't get me wrong. But it sucks soloing when the unit you are using doesn't have something to watch it's back.

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Then you pick a tower character.. build your towers.. then switch to barb like the game mechanics are meant for.
Solo play doesent mean your stuck to one character.

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No but if I choose to stick to one character why should I follow the game mechanics for? I thought the whole point of this game was to play as you wish to play.

Ah, but you see...If they fixed the whole towers loosing damage or health or range or attack when switching to another character then I really would not care. But the fact is...if you use a tower character and you switch over the stats on your tower drops down.

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It's rather hard to decide on which would be more preferable overall, but for the Deadly Striker Towers, they could certainly use some changes, especially considering their extra-low health. Piercing shots (and a change to fire rate) would certainly be a welcome change, but the same could be said for giving them a bit of splash. Maybe even give them both, so they have piercing shots with minor splash damage around each enemy hit. It would make them great at clearing out crowds, but they'd be at risk of getting destroyed easily with their low health.

Additionally, I think it might be nice to see the Ethereal Spike Traps given multiple hits per trigger. Say, if it's 16 hits, it would mean hitting one enemy (like an ogre) 16 times when triggered or, if they're all weaker enemies, 16 hits divided up between the enemies as needed to kill them. Maybe 2 hits on one enemy and the other 14 each hit their own enemies within range.

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Ah, but you see...If they fixed the whole towers loosing damage or health or range or attack when switching to another character then I really would not care. But the fact is...if you use a tower character and you switch over the stats on your tower drops down.

Actually... When they added this part it was a pure buff. Everyone did the normal damage before the batch and after the patch everyone got 30% buff to tower damage if they stayed on the character. Meaning that stuff was possible to do before the buff, was a lot easier after the buff. (Then came the nightmare)

The point in a DPS is that it serves as a mobile DUless supertower. Where a tower character himself can't do damage but the towers he builds can. Even if you lose the 30% buff by changing a character, your DPS should have enough punch for the difference since you can move around taking care of a lot more than just few towers could.

Edit: for the Deadly Strikers, as they shoot so slowly, maybe add a special piercing on them. If their hit would kill the target, the overkill damage would pierce through in a harpoonish way. That way they wont lose damage from the hits that easily and work better on masses without destroying their idea of being a slow big damage turret.

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I, disagree with most of the post, nerfing the whole squire thing is awfull, would just make the game suck.

EDIT: finally, I disagree with pretty much everything, maybe you would like that, but most players would not. Thank you

(I feel like you will rage on me...)

You're entitled to your own opinion, raging doesn't help the discussion. But then, neither does disagreeing without explaining why.

Any time I have done this everything and anything has still attacked it. Maybe whatever I put behind it just does not kill stuff fast enough.

You have to position harpoons behind it that are just out of reach of the mobs. They'll try to attack the harpoons but the barricade blocks them. They will eventually attack the barricade though; it's not an invincible defense.

By the way, just to clarify my position, buffing is just as good of a fix as nerfing to me. Barbarian doesn't do enough dps? Could nerf the squire, but buffing the barbarian is just as good (although personally I think they're fine as is). I'm indifferent as long as the classes are balanced and all have a role to fill. They don't need to all be equally good at everything, quite the opposite. Every class should at one point in the game be thinking, "man, I really wish I had a _____".

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Solution: Add pierce to deadly strike towers and a damage boost to ethereal traps in addition to a small AoE.
I believe that's called a proxy trap...

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You're entitled to your own opinion, raging doesn't help the discussion. But then, neither does disagreeing without explaining why.


I disagree with that because in general, the OP wants to nerf the squire, make people not put things in their shops so they do not get ripped off and after that, make it so people never visit AFK shops because the tavern vendor sells better stuff.

This is why I disagree.

About the barbarian thing, as the hentai dude said, HE IS SUPPOSED TO LIVE LONGER WITH STANCES, NOT OUTDPS EVERYTHING.

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Great to see some actual intelligent discussions here on the matters.. despite the few obvious closed minded trolls.
and yes.. every tower.. every hero should stand out unique.. have its specific role.. THIS is the problem.. squires role is tank... the barbs is dps..but the barb falls short. making the squire both DPS AND tank.. and the barb.. is just there without a defined role.

the reason i did not suguest the deadly striker to get splash damage is because the mages fireball already does splash damage.. thus adding it to the DST would basically give you just another fireball tower.

And hentai.. you stating and asking WHY you should have to play the game according to its intended mechanics .. just clearly proves your not intended to be apart of this conversation.

the developers kit comes free with the game.. and theres already a growing list of mods and total conversions for you to play with. Make the game as silly and broken as you like while in open mode. this is a conversation for those wanting to deal with the CORE vanilla game as it was intended to be played.
And at its core DunDef is a Tower Defence game.. where no ONE hero or tower is supposed to be the answer for EVERY situation.. but a MIX of towers.. mixed togeather to deal with changing situations.. requiring specific placements.. angles.. and strategies.
You want a dungeon hack and slash with no thinking or strategy? Diablo 3 is about to come out.. knock your socks off.

-PS.. first post edited for a few extra oversights and bugs.

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Anal much? And the core vanilla game is being played as it is because that's how it came out.

If the barbarian was part of the set of heroes selectable when Dungeon Defenders came out and he was a DPS char and he sucked "YES" I would be arguing that it's broken. But seeing as to how that class came out as an extra DLC character I really don't see as to why the core vanilla game mechanics should be changed just because you are a DPS addict. Buff up the Barbarian, Buff up the other classes so that everyone can be on equal grounds as the squire.

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