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Release the Kraken!! nerf.. :P


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Based on what people are saying, I'm kind of glad that I've been working on Survivalist (and for that matter studying for midterms) rather than trying to beat NM Kraken.

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It shouldn't take stats that high, or only a select few characters to beat the Kraken. An App solo could never beat it IMO.
I think so, I believe SOLO will give u a benefit that there is no orge during the boss fight.

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I think so, I believe SOLO will give u a benefit that there is no orge during the boss fight.


Ogres are the least of your concern during the boss fight ;)

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I think so, I believe SOLO will give u a benefit that there is no orge during the boss fight.

Ogres still show up. (not sure if this only on NM, certain conditions or what) I think there was a bug the first day or two that only kobolds would spawn or something when you soloed. That seems to be very much fixed now. (Or only applies to insane since that's what I did it on for those first couple of days.) I never even noticed the ogre spawn messages so much as the ogres beating my crystal to death when the kraken would push a wall out of the way and a strength drain aura would finally die ~30 minutes after starting the boss fight. Which I could have prevented with occasional aura repairs. I just kind of lost enthusiasm when I couldn't break his invincibility shield.

Ogres arent even the problem though. Even on NM my defenses can easily solo the ogres for as long as the boss fight should take. It's the fact that I stand in the krakens face with 2800 hero attack and a nice pre-nerf trans ret helping my DPS laser-bot beat on his tentacles and still don't break them after 10-20-30 minutes. Usually due to having to get safe and heal for a couple of seconds just to turn back around and realize the 2 or 3 tentacles I broke are regenerated.

Like classic said, the boss is just plain ridiculous. And it's rare I say something is too hard in the game. It just doesnt make sense that the boss is almost impossible to solo. I don't want to have to resort to cheap tactics like blocking while my pet kills him. I could understand if he was this resilient against a weaker setup, but a 2800 hero attack, 16k maxxed out trans ret can't even break his tentacles off? Something seems very wrong about that.

It also goes to show how broken it is when it's easier to solo into high wave survival on the map than it is to try to solo a 12th wave boss. Although this isn't the first boss it's true of. Just the most prevalent one now.

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Ogres still show up. (not sure if this only on NM, certain conditions or what) I think there was a bug the first day or two that only kobolds would spawn or something when you soloed. That seems to be very much fixed now. (Or only applies to insane since that's what I did it on for those first couple of days.) I never even noticed the ogre spawn messages so much as the ogres beating my crystal to death when the kraken would push a wall out of the way and a strength drain aura would finally die ~30 minutes after starting the boss fight. Which I could have prevented with occasional aura repairs. I just kind of lost enthusiasm when I couldn't break his invincibility shield.

Ogres arent even the problem though. Even on NM my defenses can easily solo the ogres for as long as the boss fight should take. It's the fact that I stand in the krakens face with 2800 hero attack and a nice pre-nerf trans ret helping my DPS laser-bot beat on his tentacles and still don't break them after 10-20-30 minutes. Usually due to having to get safe and heal for a couple of seconds just to turn back around and realize the 2 or 3 tentacles I broke are regenerated.

Like classic said, the boss is just plain ridiculous. And it's rare I say something is too hard in the game. It just doesnt make sense that the boss is almost impossible to solo. I don't want to have to resort to cheap tactics like blocking while my pet kills him. I could understand if he was this resilient against a weaker setup, but a 2800 hero attack, 16k maxxed out trans ret can't even break his tentacles off? Something seems very wrong about that.

It also goes to show how broken it is when it's easier to solo into high wave survival on the map than it is to try to solo a 12th wave boss. Although this isn't the first boss it's true of. Just the most prevalent one now.


i needed the monkey with blood rage, doing 1.5 million a hit once his defences were down, it was still quite a challenge.....

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tryed this a fe wtimes now with a friend build hold fine even with us both using huntress's and dieng 30 times we strugle to take 10mil hp off it with decent gear and stats this boss needs a nerf normaly i wouldnt ***** about stuff but this boss makes the spider queen look like a walk through a park

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tryed this a fe wtimes now with a friend build hold fine even with us both using huntress's and dieng 30 times we strugle to take 10mil hp off it with decent gear and stats this boss needs a nerf normaly i wouldnt ***** about stuff but this boss makes the spider queen look like a walk through a park


Well the Spider queen was a walk in the park after EV. This boss is horrendously overpowered and near impossible to solo. Ye i got similar stats to most higher end players and i cant get more than 2 tentacles off b4 they regenerate. Got 2.6K hero attack maxed out ret with around 14000 dmg on my huntress still fail. Its fun to have a challenging fight but another to have a retarded mechanic that prevents soloing. Spider queen was fun to solo since atleast u had a decent chance to take it down but with Kraken u stand like 0,00000001% of killing him no matter ur stats on NM

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guys, No hero stat matters except HP. you shouldn't be trying to deal mass damage with Hero weapon damage but rather your pets will roll him. Seahorse or monkey pets will destroy the boss.

pets are strong and fun. The next class released will dual wield pets with no weapons, for example.

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I did a INSANE survival Aquanos last night, got a 175 upgrade Seahorse. Then my buddy and I did Aquanos Nightmare and I upgraded my Seahorse to 70 / 175 and gave it to him. On Wave 12 i got on my Squire who has 245k health and tanked him at the north crystal where only spiders drop and no other mobs come since the east end was walled off and the north west end was as well. Only defense we had there was buff beam with a healing aura. The seahorse was pretty much killing the tentacles by itself while I tanked and when they dropped, he used his hero boost and the seahorse was doing 179k x 6 since it has 5 extra projectiles. Took him out in no time.

So it's not hard, just go to wave 20 on insane survival, get a good seahorse, upgrade it some and then take on the Kraken. Also, Kandar's set up is what we sort of used with a few modifications. We used a fireball / harpoon combo or two in some spots instead of two harpoons.

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I did a INSANE survival Aquanos last night, got a 175 upgrade Seahorse. Then my buddy and I did Aquanos Nightmare and I upgraded my Seahorse to 70 / 175 and gave it to him. On Wave 12 i got on my Squire who has 245k health and tanked him at the north crystal where only spiders drop and no other mobs come since the east end was walled off and the north west end was as well. Only defense we had there was buff beam with a healing aura. The seahorse was pretty much killing the tentacles by itself while I tanked and when they dropped, he used his hero boost and the seahorse was doing 179k x 6 since it has 5 extra projectiles. Took him out in no time.

So it's not hard, just go to wave 20 on insane survival, get a good seahorse, upgrade it some and then take on the Kraken. Also, Kandar's set up is what we sort of used with a few modifications. We used a fireball / harpoon combo or two in some spots instead of two harpoons.


This.

But i may make a video of me doing it on a 1200hero hp Female Mage solo just to put this to bed.

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It's the fact that I stand in the krakens face with 2800 hero attack and a nice pre-nerf trans ret helping my DPS laser-bot beat on his tentacles and still don't break them after 10-20-30 minutes.


I'm pretty sure the bolded part is your main problem. Last I checked DPS laser-bots were really really low for DPS in NM. They were nerfed by huge margins a few patches after they buffed pets in NM. As Kandar stated you'd be much much better off with a Monkey or Seahorse or even a gryphon/serpant/dragon. Although I'm pretty sure you have me on ignore, so I doubt you'll see this.



If there was one main thing that I think that should be changed about the boss it is his damage. I don't really see why the boss needs to be able to 1 shot basically any hero other than squires with a ranged attack that homes in and you can't run from if the water gets too high(~130k dmg with 90% NM resist).

Last I checked Str Drain does nothing to the boss. Imo, I think they should make str drain affect him or nerf his damage a bit. I don't think it is absolutely necessary, but it just seems odd the boss does that much damage.



Also, people can go watch Kandar defeat the boss in his video solo.

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Just use kandar's sv build and fight the boss northern crystal , use portal to heal and return to boss fight if you die. Boss not that hard, if your expecting him to be like morrago boss where you basically can just kill him from a distance then wheres the challenge ? Boss should remain the same except for the bugs where you end up inside the boss.

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Lars is right, the physical damage pets don't get a bigger increase over the elemental pets. It's the tradeoff for consistent damage vs. resistible damage. Better to get the Serpent, Dragon, Griffon (not sure on shroomite) with multiple projectiles over the pony / laser robot in this case. Seahorse is amazing btw since it has +5 projectiles instead of +2 for the others. It's poison damage.

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so I think many ppl are w8ing for this patch to come up.

so more then 0.2% (according to steam) can acualy beat the boss :)


I rather have a Sky o' love nerf.

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I'm pretty sure the bolded part is your main problem. Last I checked DPS laser-bots were really really low for DPS in NM. They were nerfed by huge margins a few patches after they buffed pets in NM. As Kandar stated you'd be much much better off with a Monkey or Seahorse or even a gryphon/serpant/dragon. Although I'm pretty sure you have me on ignore, so I doubt you'll see this.



If there was one main thing that I think that should be changed about the boss it is his damage. I don't really see why the boss needs to be able to 1 shot basically any hero other than squires with a ranged attack that homes in and you can't run from if the water gets too high(~130k dmg with 90% NM resist).

Last I checked Str Drain does nothing to the boss. Imo, I think they should make str drain affect him or nerf his damage a bit. I don't think it is absolutely necessary, but it just seems odd the boss does that much damage.



Also, people can go watch Kandar defeat the boss in his video solo.


The main reason for using the laserbot was because it can shoot through him. Which is pretty important for soloing since he is facing you most of the time. Seahorse mainly just crammed bullets into his face without hitting his tentacles. With or without jumping, the vast majority of his bullets just hit the invisible wall that is his face. I don't question the lack of DPS on a laser-bot, it simply beats the almost null dps my seahorse does to it.

I also don't consider 'Gaiz let your pet kill him!!!' an acceptable solution. It's merely one of the -very few- extremely cheap tactics people have come up with to beat a nearly impossible boss. 'Let ur pet kill it' and 'Use a squire!' are simply unacceptable answers. There -is a problem- with the boss if these suggestions are the only way to kill it (And to be honest, they dont even work all THAT well. I have better gear/pets than most people and still have yet to solo him effectively. Trans seahorse is basically useless solo. Works great in a group but that's only because you have someone else to distract the kraken.)

I don't put anyone on ignore. Noone on these forums bothers me enough that I feel like I have to ignore them. I don't take interwebs as personally and seriously as most people apparently do.

I'd assume either strength drain IS affecting him or people are lying about his 130k-140k loogies. They only hit me for 20k-30k, but I'm usually standing in a strength drain aura. So either it effects the boss or there is some magic multiplier that gives him a chance to either do insane damage with it or practically none at all.

guys, No hero stat matters except HP. you shouldn't be trying to deal mass damage with Hero weapon damage but rather your pets will roll him. Seahorse or monkey pets will destroy the boss.

pets are strong and fun. The next class released will dual wield pets with no weapons, for example.


This is a rather horrible attitude to have. First off, I don't consider Hero HP worth a crap. I can survive him just fine, it's the fact that he's night but impossible to deal damage to solo that is the problem.. Secondly "Let ur pet do it" is simply not at all a good answer and only -proof- that the boss is broken. Summoner can dual wield pets, yes, that's it's MECHANIC. That's how it is SUPPOSED to be doing the majority of it's damage. For other players this simply should not be the case. (Even though it is) Shoddy design is still shoddy design no matter how many cheap tactics you find to get around said shoddy design. This just reminds me of the people saying to manually configure your ini files instead of thinking Trendy should actually fix their configuration program. -Fix the problem- rather than suggesting that some particularly lame, cheap workaround to get around the problem should suffice. Video game design 101.

This.

But i may make a video of me doing it on a 1200hero hp Female Mage solo just to put this to bed.


What would this put to bed? Hero HP means jack with nice resists and strength drains and female mage is particularly epic DPS. All you'd honestly be proving is that the strongest, frailest character can beat the beast with enough time and dodging involved. I, in fact, have been planning to move my dps gear over to my app just so I -can- beat the damn thing solo since it's clear that a hunter/squire/monk can't do it without an uberpet and either block or other team mates to distract him. The problem isn't that he CANT be beaten. It's the extremely narrow options to beat him with solo that is the problem. There is no excuse for a boss being harder to solo than duo+. If you consider 'Beat him with block + pet u guys' a legit solution, more power to you. The rest of us don't.

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The main reason for using the laserbot was because it can shoot through him. Which is pretty important for soloing since he is facing you most of the time. Seahorse mainly just crammed bullets into his face without hitting his tentacles. With or without jumping, the vast majority of his bullets just hit the invisible wall that is his face. I don't question the lack of DPS on a laser-bot, it simply beats the almost null dps my seahorse does to it.

I tried a run with a laser bot for the same reason you mention. I thought that my 96 upgrade gryphon was not hitting the tentacles enough. In the end, the laser robot didn't work because it just plain didn't do enough DPS and I'm not sure if the piercing aspect even really helped. My defenses held for an hour but I couldn't do enough DPS to outdo his regen. If your seahorse isn't hitting the tentacles try strafing more or switch to a monkey.


I also don't consider 'Gaiz let your pet kill him!!!' an acceptable solution. It's merely one of the -very few- extremely cheap tactics people have come up with to beat a nearly impossible boss. 'Let ur pet kill it' and 'Use a squire!' are simply unacceptable answers. There -is a problem- with the boss if these suggestions are the only way to kill it (And to be honest, they dont even work all THAT well. I have better gear/pets than most people and still have yet to solo him effectively. Trans seahorse is basically useless solo. Works great in a group but that's only because you have someone else to distract the kraken.)


Why is using pet damage not an acceptable tactic? Honestly I'm pretty sure the boss would be doable solo with most of the high DPS pets. (gryphon, dragon, serpent, seahorse, monkey etc) My gryphon has 96 upgrades and I was able to do damage to the boss with 450 player attack on a squire. It would have taken a long time, but with a pet in the 150 range it would would be much easier or a pet in the 200 up range. Or just having 1000-1500 attack would probably have been enough.


I'd assume either strength drain IS affecting him or people are lying about his 130k-140k loogies. They only hit me for 20k-30k, but I'm usually standing in a strength drain aura. So either it effects the boss or there is some magic multiplier that gives him a chance to either do insane damage with it or practically none at all.

I only tested str drain in the really early patches, so I don't know if it affects him now. From what I can tell, with 90% NM physical resists the ink/water ball does ~130k dmg, the little darts do about 13k each. If str drain works on him in the current patch, he shouldn't be too bad. Also, when I killed him healing aura healed him so I didn't have it down. Being able to put both str and healing in a buff beam would help immensely in killing him.



it's clear that a hunter/squire/monk can't do it without an uberpet and either block or other team mates to distract him.

Kandar has a video of him beating the boss solo in 3 mins on a monk. You might claim his pet is "uber" but It'd still probably be doable with a 150-200 upgrade monkey. If str drain works, I'm pretty sure I could kill the boss with 150 upgrade gryphon.

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[quote]Why is using pet damage not an acceptable tactic? [/quote]
Why have weapons at all, I guess. Let's just shift to 'Evurbody use pets' from now on.

Trendy, please do remove all weapons from the game seeing as how 'Beat the game with pets + block' is apparently the new craze and weapon damage is apparently meaningless.

The only class that should be -relying- on pet damage is summoner. And only because pets ARE their weapons.

[quote]Kandar has a video of him beating the boss solo in 3 mins on a monk. You might claim his pet is "uber" but It'd still probably be doable with a 150-200 upgrade monkey. If str drain works, I'm pretty sure I could kill the boss with 150 upgrade gryphon.[/QUOTE]

Good for him. Doesn't affect my stance on this. Hopefully they'll fix the boss so that you can do it in 3 mins without having to rely on uber-pet damage + Hero boost or block to kill him.

Like I've said before, it's grrrrrreat that you've found cheap tactics to get around their shoddy boss design. It doesn't mean the shoddy boss design shouldn't be fixed. It only proves it DOES need to be fixed so players can do it more legitimately and not feel like they just cheated the system with a 100% block sword or a pet that for some reason outDPSes their DPS weapon.

Don't feel like you were cheating the system? Also great. That's your opinion on it. Mine still stands.

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Why have weapons at all, I guess. Let's just shift to 'Evurbody use pets' from now on.

Ever since EV buff beams came out, it has been pretty much "Evurbody use pets"


Trendy, please do remove all weapons from the game seeing as how 'Beat the game with pets + block' is apparently the new craze and weapon damage is apparently meaningless.

The only class that should be -relying- on pet damage is summoner. And only because pets ARE their weapons.



Good for him. Doesn't affect my stance on this. Hopefully they'll fix the boss so that you can do it in 3 mins without having to rely on uber-pet damage + Hero boost or block to kill him.


I guess in the end, do you have a problem with the boss specifically or do you have a problem with how much damage pets do compared to heroes in NM?

The only thing specific to his boss is regen and the fact that defenses don't damage it(I think). There is a certain DPS threshold you have to meet to kill it and you cannot use defenses to help you. What kind of nerf are you asking for? Just letting defenses work on the boss would be a huge boost, but that doesn't change the way pets work.

It seems like if you don't like pet damage it should have been brought up a long time ago. Pets have been doing way more damage in NM than heroes for quite a few patches. If you really think heroes should do more damage compared to pets that's fine, but it isn't really specific to this boss.


If you nerf pet damage, then guardians become the defacto pet again. If you up hero damage, then NM will be more like Insane, which is fine I guess, just depends on what the devs want to do. So, what kind of change do you think is needed?

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None of the above.

I guess the suggestion I've put out there 6 or 7 times now about lowering his tentacle health for solo/duo/trio play has just been flat out overlooked. This is the only thing that makes him easier in a group than solo. Since the tentacle health is the same, a group can knock his tentacles out way faster than a soloist can. Especially if the soloist doesn't have an end-game ubar DPS pet.

Although, pet damage should NOT outrank hero DPS. Ever. I've never really taken much note of it because all my pets are tower pets 'cept my laserbot and seahorse, neither of which are effective against the kraken. This is just plain silly that people even think it's acceptable, but whatever. You are entitled to your own opinion even if I disagree with it massively.. Chat about it all you like, just don't expect me to agree with it. Ever. Either pets need to be cut back a little or heroes need to be brought up to par with pet damage.

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None of the above.

I guess the suggestion I've put out there 6 or 7 times now about lowering his tentacle health for solo/duo/trio play has just been flat out overlooked. This is the only thing that makes him easier in a group than solo. Since the tentacle health is the same, a group can knock his tentacles out way faster than a soloist can. Especially if the soloist doesn't have an end-game ubar DPS pet.


Sorry, I forgot about your suggestion to lower tentacle health. I think it'll work well to make it easier solo and would be decent change, although I'd really like to see if anyone has any good estimates on tentacle health and regen rate.



Although, pet damage should NOT outrank hero DPS. Ever. I've never really taken much note of it because all my pets are tower pets 'cept my laserbot and seahorse, neither of which are effective against the kraken. This is just plain silly that people even think it's acceptable, but whatever. You are entitled to your own opinion even if I disagree with it massively.. Chat about it all you like, just don't expect me to agree with it. Ever. Either pets need to be cut back a little or heroes need to be brought up to par with pet damage.


Now, to be a bit more off topic. You make an assertion here that pet damage should not outrank hero DPS. Why? You don't give any reason, is there a reason pets should do less than heroes?

I never stated whether or not I thought pets doing more is acceptable. I don't really care all that much either way. I tend to think it is a bit weird that pets do more, but I'd like to know why you think it is unacceptable. Also, would you say that guardians boosting towers to do way more dps than your hero is acceptable?

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I'd rather just agree to disagree about it. Sort of tired of going in circles. All it really boils down to is -I- think its unacceptable and -you- think it's acceptable. Neither of us will ever be right about it, since it's just a matter of opinion. And I don't see much point in providing all the reasons I find it unacceptable. More than likely you'll disagree with every one of them anyways, just like every other opinion I've stated.

And by definition of acceptable, if you 'dont care' you think it's acceptable. That's pretty much exactly what a small qualifier like acceptable means. That you don't care if it works one way or another. I never said you thought it was ideal, which is what I think you think I was implying with the word acceptable.

Sort of how I think it's perfectly acceptable for people to smoke pot. I don't care if they do or don't. I just accept that they can and that I shouldn't be bothered by their choice/own opinion on the matter.

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So on a scale

Unacceptable---------------Acceptable-----------------Absolute Requirement

You won't even bother to give one reason to someone in the middle? I don't know why you're trying to avoid supporting your opinion. I even stated I felt it was a bit weird that pets do more dmg, so if anything I'm already leaning toward your side, so I just wanted more to support my inclination.

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I'm not trying to avoid it. I simply see no point in it. There is a considerable difference.

I'd rather not get into the semantics of it. Even if you are leaning towards my side, I'm pretty much good with just leaving it as it is. So if we can't agree to disagree can we at least just agree to possibly agree? I'm good with either. And I'm sure the mods and other forum-goers would be good with that too. If it ever has a topic of it's own, I'll be happy to continue discussing it.

I'm honestly at the point where I doubt I'll be playing much longer anyways. That should make plenty of people happy. Tired of nearly every single patch taking the game in a direction I don't agree with because Trendy choses to follow one end of the spectrum instead of putting in extra options so the game can be tailored to different tastes. (Such as making survival easier instead of just creating a new mode for what they now call survival. And creating a new mode past nightmare for adding djinn, sharken and airships.. Or other little things they could have done at each step to keep everyone happy with more options, instead of picking and choosing who they are going to piss off every patch.)

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I'm pretty much good with just leaving it as it is. So if we can't agree to disagree can we at least just agree to possibly agree? I'm good with either.


Alright, I guess we both find it acceptable but are not particularly found of it.

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