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Looking for input on Sharken


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There are tons of threads regarding sharken, however ive found none of them constructive. Before they released i was able to get to wave 24 NMHC misty survival. Since release the highest wave ive been able to attain was 20.

Looking for any constructive suggestions to deal with them...ive tried using app towers, squire towers, and traps primarily. So far my best attempt was placing proximity mines far enough out to blow them up, and then hope to god a djinn didnt unsummon them(which eventually happened). However even in that attempt at wave 20 when all the mobs gain a considerable buff, the proxies werent enough dmg to interrupt the charge, and the ogres had too many hp for my towers to target the sharken. pre wave 20 my towers either killed the ogres fast enough to help, or the proxies were strong enough.

I made attempts using every tower in the apprentice arsenal as well as every tower in the squire arsenal. the only traps i used were proximity mines and gas traps. nothin seems to cut it at wave 20.

Im at a loss on how to proceed now...perhaps the mob needs tweaked still, but any decent input would be appreciated. my traptress is around 2k tower dmg, and my squire(or app) tower ho is sittin around 2.8k tower dmg. and yes im using EV buff beams. my wall builder is somewhere over 3k tower health. also i swapped to my monk and used his tower buff aura, which helped, but not enough to burn any further than wave 20. i dont feel like i should be 4 waves worse than before sharken...unless of course they need fixin, which may be the case.

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I agree completly with you, ever since sharken have come out doing any missions on nightmare are next to impossible. No matter what combo of defenses they still dont get stopped. The fact they move defenses soo much is stupid, it makes walls basically worthless and towers can kil ogres with over 8 mil health fast enough. They are broken, pls nerf them trendy or at least something else to make up for it, maybe dropping spider spawns or lowering ogre health.

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I was just able to get almost to where I usually do (to wave 19 when I usually get to wave 21) on Misty. It would seem that tower and trap placement is crucial to combat the Sharken. If your Gas Traps do not detonate at the correct location, the Sharken will get through. If your towers/Proxy Traps can't target the Sharkens while they are gassed, you will lose. Positioning your towers for maximum effectiveness seems to be the only way to combat the Sharken at this point. Make sure that a Gas Trap will detonate and stop the Sharken -before- it has a clear line of sight to your towers.

Even with all of that said, surviving is crucial. Being able to DPS the Sharken that your towers can't quite hit is the difference in victory and the Tavern. Also, all my character stats are well below yours (Countess X/1100/X/1000, App X/1500/X/1000, Monk 1000/X/1000/X, Huntress 1000 all, and EV 1700/X/X/X), so you should be able to make it farther than I did.

Don't give up! It's very easy to just rage quit after a Sharken brakes through your defenses, but trying the map multiple times will help you to get a feel for how they move and where to tweak the placement of the towers/trap.

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At least someone gets it. Heh. Most people just scream "We shouldn't have to move our towers!!!!"

Which is about the most naive thing you can say in a tower defense game.

On that note, the ability to actually MOVE your towers for a particular cost would be nice as opposed to having to rebuild when they are pushed. I've learned to work around it myself, but it just seems like a common sense idea that if enemies can push your towers, at least one of the heroes should be able to as well.

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On that note, the ability to actually MOVE your towers for a particular cost would be nice as opposed to having to rebuild when they are pushed. I've learned to work around it myself, but it just seems like a common sense idea that if enemies can push your towers, at least one of the heroes should be able to as well.


Agreed, I made this suggestion which is basically about making repairing towers slowly move them back into position.

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The reality of it is no matter how you build theres always 1 random sharken that will get through. The only thing i can suggest is using an active builder to replace something that gets changed and a good melee tank to act as a blocker while you are rebuilding the unit that was pushed

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what if they charged at towers quickly like they do know, and then when they hit them they stop and push them slowly? I actually have no idea how they do it as every time I've had a wall pushed in the last few days I haven't actually been at the part where it happened =\

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I was able to finish OMF before the release of sharken with just a few towers getting destroyed. Now I can't reach the final wave because sharken moving all the towers and letting every mob enter and destroy the core.

Sharken is a good idea, but with the ability to move/push defences make it too much OP. <- my opinion

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I was able to finish OMF before the release of sharken with just a few towers getting destroyed. Now I can't reach the final wave because sharken moving all the towers and letting every mob enter and destroy the core.


Have you tried tweaking your build or are you still using the same one as before the patch? It would stand to reason that with the addition of a new enemy type, your builds will have to be modified accordingly!

At first, I said the same things, and yes, they are -difficult- to handle, but I don't think that they're -impossible- to handle, anymore. You just have to rethink your strategies.

As someone who mostly just looked up someone else's build, this was very difficult for me, but learning to adapt a build to suit you or making your own is much more beneficial now, as well. Perhaps that is the true point of the Sharken...

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I've been handling sharken with a combination of strength drain aura, gas trap, and lightning aura. But my monk has 1500 range.

If I was starting nightmare with low end vendor myths, I can't imagine what I'd be doing (except cursing a lot). But that's 13du per lane just to handle sharken.

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With the release of patch 7.30 and the Sharken trendynet did more harm than good. The idea of having opponent that can move your defenses isn't the problem though. If you can kill the Sharken before it charges everything is alright, but a problem is created, when you throw Ogers, Djinns and Spiders into the mix. If we look back to the release of the Djinn, there was a similar outcry of the community much like the one we see now over the Sharken, but eventually new strategies were created to the with the new problem. But in my opinion this time won't be solved so easily. It's not that u have to change to a different strategy to deal with the Sharken, but that u have to add to your current strategy and a lot of player don't seem to be able to do so (myself included). My real concern isn't what came this patch, but what will come with the next part of the eternia series. If they just keep adding new types of opponents to the game, the players won't have a pleasant experience and will eventually break the game beyond fixing. And Trndynet don't seem to have a real answer to the problem, except nerving the new opponents so they become so irrelevant, putting them into the game was just a waste of time. So now I will stop rambling on and offer a way, I believe will, at least partly, help resolve these problems. Instead of just throwing every enemy type into the mix, every time you start a new map (talking about nm sv), you will get your Ogers and all the other small stuff, but you only have to deal with one type of “special” enemy, but these aren't the nerved to death versions, but real challenges. So instead of having to deal with Djinn and Sharken you will just have to deal with one, allowing a wider range of strategies, since you won't have to adapt to both, Djinn and Sharken. But this should in no means mean, that the waves will be any easier, if you slack of you get killed just as easily as before. And for these who say Djinn + Sharken = np, let both spawn in mix mode to give the “high end” players a worthy challenge.

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The Sharken do require a few tweaks to how you build, but once you get a feel for how they attack they aren't that hard to deal with. In general (this applies to any map) you need to push your gas traps further out, so that Sharken are gassed before they get to the spot they'll begin a charge from. You might even want to push your whole blockade/buffs/traps/auras setup forward in some spots.

For example, check Kandar's revised Misty build http://ddplanner.com/?l=2821,kandar-misty-mix-wave-30-duo-plus-alternate. South has been pushed quite a bit forward to deal with Sharken more effectively.

On some maps a Lightning aura + Gas + Darkness works really well if mobs tend to get stuck around a corner where your towers can't shoot them. You could swap in a Lightning Tower instead of the aura, but the Aura is 2 DU cheaper, and for me did a better job hitting the mobs I wanted it to constantly instead of having to wait for something to 'bridge the gap' between the LT and the mob cluster.

As for Towers I'm really liking a 50/50 mix of Fireballs and Harpoons. Harpoons are great for targetting Genies desummoning (and when 7.30c comes out Sharken winding up to charge) that are deep in a cluster of mobs. Fireballs are great at hitting clusters of mobs because of the AoE, and really help thin out the trash out long range. I find they help a lot because harpoons like to waste a lot of their dps flipping around aiming at all the small trash mobs. With the fireballs clearing out a large portion of the trash the harpoons seem to be able to focus on larger mobs a little better and don't waste their fire as much.

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Sir Smash, I understand your point about mixing up defenses, the real trouble isnt dealing with sharkens, the problem is for low tier players, who dont have crazy stats. The players like me cant afford to spend alot of DU on darkness/gas and ensnare auras, our towers just dont have enough dps to deal with the enemies when we have only 1 or 2 in a lane. For high end players this is fine, but for lower myth tier it is just another huge obstacle on the large mountain that we have to climb, an obstacle that, just from 1 miss-timed gas explosion can end our entire hopes of getting any loot better than current stuff.

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I know it's tougher with lower stats, but you should still spend the DU on support traps/auras etc. They're even more important with lower stats because of the lower tower dps. It seems counter intuitive to lower your dps by spending DU on them, but they'll increase your build's resistance to a lot of the tougher enemies, giving your towers more time to kill things or reducing the damage your walls take.

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Last night got to wave 29 in Misty NMHC.

Not a really big difference, just have to think ahead. Went away from using buff beams on walls and switched from one single EV wall to two smaller squire walls and shuffling traps around for the loss of the extra DU the squire walls require.

It's a little more difficult, but can be done. It offers a new challenge for those of us who regularly beat MM NMHC in snooze mode.

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Careful there.. Telling others to change up their strategy in a tower defense game is dangerous.. [/sarcasm]

I do fully agree though. And when the latest patch castrates them it'll be like sharken were never even added, to be honest.

I guess when Trendy said sharken would force players to adjust their strategies, what they really meant was:

Players will be forced to whine about it on the forums until we adjust Sharken to work with their current strategies.

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I did manage to beat HCNM Misty on Mixed Mode last night (through wave 30) which I was able to do pre-Sharken, but it was extremely difficult and, more notably, relied a bit on luck. My stats are inferior to yours, I used app towers at ~1500 tower atk, huntress traps at ~1700 tower atk, walls around ~1900 tower health, and auras around 1700 atk and 1900 range. I was playing as a dps monk (used a separate monk for the auras). I pushed my proxies to the edge of the buff beams on the walls, and pulled the gas traps just slightly in so the proxy would hit further. The reasons for this:

- If a sharken hits a gas trap and is NOT killed, it seems to (maybe only sometimes, but you can't rely on "sometimes") immediately charge after, so if it's out of range of the proxy and you don't kill it yourself, gg
- You can't pull the gas trap back much or the djinns will desummon the proxy

Another very important note -- your traps do not interrupt the sharken charge by dealing damage. Similar to djinns, YOU have to do damage if you want to stun them. If you're relying on your traps, you're aiming to kill them before they get the charge off, which is what I did for the most part.

As I was using app towers, which are still inferior to harpoons despite the patch (and will be moreso after 7.30c), they don't pierce the ogres. This means that, until around wave 22 or so, I was fine leaving the sharks to the traps and lightning aura to kill it. After that point, the charge was too fast and the health too high to let that strategy work. I tried running around killing the ogres to "clear the path" to the sharken, but the ogres are not evenly distributed and far too many will be unleashed to rely on that. After rebuilding my base on waves 25 and 26, I had to try a different approach, which is based on luck to some degree:

If an ogre was on a wall and a sharken was heading down that path, I would have to briefly circumvent the ogre to let my pet, a lizard dragon (poison aoe) get one or two shots on the sharken to help kill it, then quickly return across my wall and get the ogre(s) down as quickly as possibly. The reason this relied on luck is that the monk is absolutely not intended to be able to run out in the middle of the carnage like that and always survive, at least not with my stats. Earlier in the day I had two attempts fail because I walked only a couple steps out of my wall, close enough to let my pet dps, and I got insta-killed from full health. I have nearly 1700 player health and very high resists, I put all my focus into survivability but the monk, like the apprentice (but not quite as bad), has very little survivability.

So that's the approach I used, and I did manage to beat wave 30. It was FAR more difficult than before the patch, of course, and relied on being lucky enough not to get gibbed when I had to take a risk. The loot was, of course, no better than when this was a simpler task. With today's patch going through, I think replacing my fireball towers with harpoon turrets would be infinitely better. I also think that the change to make their charge time standard and not increase with waves will help a lot. Hope this helped you a bit though.

One final note, as I'm so sick of reading rude kids flex their e-peen because they can manage the challenge with their overly qualified gear... it's unbelievable the number of people that are so ignorant as to "call out" people that voice their opinion about mobs being added in the fashion they follow for this game. Both spiders and djinns had similar outcries, as people mention, but neither you nor I adapted by "adjusting our strategy" alone, the mobs also needed to be balanced to the point where the strategies could be reasonably effective with the gear available. Were they nerfed into oblivion so that we could stick to our old strategies? No, they were not. They were balanced to allow new strategies to be formed and work reliably with proper execution, as it should be. To be completely honest, having recently restarted from scratch with no gear but having a lot of experience, it was extremely difficult to break into nightmare because the gear you need you simply cannot get without trading. And this was before sharken. Forcing players to farm mana and buy items from shops that they cannot get themselves is simply poor game design, in my opinion. When people come to these forums and complain about the lack of a proper difficulty ramp, I can vouch for their complaints. I love that the end game is difficult and I hope it remains so, but the game is now designed for those that have already acquired much of the gear. Adding a new tier of difficulty is something I love, but replacing an existing tier with a higher one that is all but unattainable for any that have not climbed it before, that's poor game design. A new difficulty mode, option, or something of the sort that also provides increased rewards for the added risk would have been the sensible choice, in my opinion. There is a clear difference between "whiners asking for free loot" and people noting that you cannot progress through the stairs of content without buying a ladder from someone already at the top.

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One final note, as I'm so sick of reading rude kids flex their e-peen because they can manage the challenge with their overly qualified gear... it's unbelievable the number of people that are so ignorant as to "call out" people that voice their opinion about mobs being added in the fashion they follow for this game. Both spiders and djinns had similar outcries, as people mention, but neither you nor I adapted by "adjusting our strategy" alone, the mobs also needed to be balanced to the point where the strategies could be reasonably effective with the gear available. Were they nerfed into oblivion so that we could stick to our old strategies? No, they were not. They were balanced to allow new strategies to be formed and work reliably with proper execution, as it should be. To be completely honest, having recently restarted from scratch with no gear but having a lot of experience, it was extremely difficult to break into nightmare because the gear you need you simply cannot get without trading. And this was before sharken. Forcing players to farm mana and buy items from shops that they cannot get themselves is simply poor game design, in my opinion. When people come to these forums and complain about the lack of a proper difficulty ramp, I can vouch for their complaints. I love that the end game is difficult and I hope it remains so, but the game is now designed for those that have already acquired much of the gear. Adding a new tier of difficulty is something I love, but replacing an existing tier with a higher one that is all but unattainable for any that have not climbed it before, that's poor game design. A new difficulty mode, option, or something of the sort that also provides increased rewards for the added risk would have been the sensible choice, in my opinion. There is a clear difference between "whiners asking for free loot" and people noting that you cannot progress through the stairs of content without buying a ladder from someone already at the top.


This is why i think the ones that defend the difficulty more are the ones have have a lot to lose.
Like selling in there afk shops to,trade for games but most likely paypal shops.

That's just my opinion though.

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Eh, you can call it what you like. I've started a new batch of characters more than once and I will be again soon. I've never had much problem with it and it's only gotten easier with time.

And what I was talking about referred exclusively to Sharken. Yes, players had to learn to deal with spiders and djinn with a little balancing. Sharken on the other hand are being completely nerfed to the point that players CAN handle them with their current strategies. Which is exactly what they wanted, instead of the usual 'Nerfed to be able to handle them with slightly different strategies'.

Which was exactly my point.. Initially Trendy said they were going to force players to adapt to Sharken. Instead they have decided to force Sharken to adapt to players.

This is why i think the ones that defend the difficulty more are the ones have have a lot to lose.
Like selling in there afk shops to,trade for games but most likely paypal shops.

That's just my opinion though.


I don't have anything to lose. I don't even bother with AFK shops anymore. The only thing I have to lose is what little challenge the game presents as it is. Some of us like a little difficulty and diversity in our games. Unfortunately, the masses would rather just have easy-mode and Trendy has decided to give it to them at every turn. "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" and all that jazz. Most people NEED the game handed to them or they can't win it, so I can't say I'm surprised to see these changes.

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Eh, you can call it what you like. I've started a new batch of characters more than once and I will be again soon. I've never had much problem with it and it's only gotten easier with time.

And what I was talking about referred exclusively to Sharken. Yes, players had to learn to deal with spiders and djinn with a little balancing. Sharken on the other hand are being completely nerfed to the point that players CAN handle them with their current strategies. Which is exactly what they wanted, instead of the usual 'Nerfed to be able to handle them with slightly different strategies'.

Which was exactly my point.. Initially Trendy said they were going to force players to adapt to Sharken. Instead they have decided to force Sharken to adapt to players.


The only truth in this stems from harpoon being far too OP as a "cover all" defense. People used them above app towers and other defenses in a vast majority of applications pre-sharken, and with the incoming change they will be the go-to defense at your wall yet again. My opinions on balance of defenses is something I won't rant about here, however. The sharken are still adding a necessary level of precision and risk that was not previously present, and they have shifted some emphasis over to lightning aura and traps. It may be that people with sufficiently high gear can circumvent these alterations and stick to their harpoon killing machines, but for those with less stats and less people playing in their game, it still forces players to adapt.

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I don't have anything to lose. I don't even bother with AFK shops anymore. The only thing I have to lose is what little challenge the game presents as it is. Some of us like a little difficulty and diversity in our games. Unfortunately, the masses would rather just have easy-mode and Trendy has decided to give it to them at every turn. "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" and all that jazz. Most people NEED the game handed to them or they can't win it, so I can't say I'm surprised to see these changes.


I think you will prob find the mass wants it fair to all players.
When you got all the top gear before these mobs was added,of course it's going to be a lot easer for you now.

Maybe a wipe across the board does not sound like a bad idea after all.

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The only truth in this stems from harpoon being far too OP as a "cover all" defense. People used them above app towers and other defenses in a vast majority of applications pre-sharken, and with the incoming change they will be the go-to defense at your wall yet again. My opinions on balance of defenses is something I won't rant about here, however. The sharken are still adding a necessary level of precision and risk that was not previously present, and they have shifted some emphasis over to lightning aura and traps. It may be that people with sufficiently high gear can circumvent these alterations and stick to their harpoon killing machines, but for those with less stats and less people playing in their game, it still forces players to adapt.


Honeslty, I've found I use less harpoons now than I did pre-Sharken. The splash from Fireballs is exceptionally helpful and the lower DU cost lets you experiment with other things.

I am by no means a top-tier player. Most of my characters have less than 1500 in their primary stats. However, I can still get to just about where I could before on Misty, and when I failed, it wasn't even due to Sharken (my AA wasn't working out as well as I had hoped...). I think that Sharken just make it so that new players can no longer just copy-paste builds that other people post and succeed. And, I think that's probably a good thing...

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I think if trendy made fireball tower knockback stop sharken charges that would go a great length to helping the app be useful.

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I think if trendy made fireball tower knockback stop sharken charges that would go a great length to helping the app be useful.

This would make them -too- good, would render and Sharken completely worthless. The Fireball tower is probably the most well-balanced tower that Apprentices have. Although, I haven't used Lightning Towers since the new patch, so those may be better now, as well.

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MOST of your characters have less than 1500? None of mine do. 1000 was hard enough to attain even with heavy use of the AFK shops. They simply need a new difficulty setting to bridge the chasm between current NM and Insane difficulties.

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