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Reduced the number of enemies on Survival Waves... or not?


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"Reduced the number of enemies on Survival Waves to about Mistymire Forest levels on ALL maps"

So what happened to this patch note? This was the single thing I was looking forward to the most in this patch and they straight up lied about it? I just checked and on wave 13 misty theres 876 enemies... on wave 13 Karathiki Jungle, 1659 enemies. Now if I know anything about one number being bigger than another number, I'd say those numbers aren't even close.

Is this an oversight and they forgot to implement this change, or is this their idea of "about" the same number of enemies, just over twice as many... yea that's pretty close.

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Dont compare 6 player maps with 4player maps.. try it again with morago or summit.

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Dont compare 6 player maps with 4player maps.. try it again with morago or summit.

Just checked on morrogo 1700+ on wave 13, even more enemies then karathiki lol, 6 or 4 player map has nothing to do with how many mobs there are...

Not to mention if you actually read what I posted they said reduced number of enemies on ALL maps, not only 4 player maps.

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Misty still has the lowest. Its more like dropping the mobs to Moraggo levels rather than Misty levels. Original campaign maps are about 1.5k around 12 and 2.5k at higher waves with 2 people rather than 7k+. Kara has similar levels to Moraggo already.

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Misty still has the lowest. Its more like dropping the mobs to Moraggo levels rather than Misty levels. Original campaign maps are about 1.5k around 12 and 2.5k at higher waves with 2 people rather than 7k+. Kara has similar levels to Moraggo already.

I realize misty still has the lowest, that's the problem, it shouldn't, or at the very least, it should be pretty close. I'm not exactly sure what wave 13 morrogo was before the patch, but as far as I can tell they haven't reduced the number at all. And if they did reduce it a little, why not have the patch note reflect that. They got my hopes up that morrogo might not take 5x longer to do then misty only to smash them today.

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playing misty with 3 guys wave 13 is 2800 enemies

playing on moraggo wave 13 with 3 guys is 5080 enemies thats just a joke

taking waaay to long to finish a wave on that. Its not even fun

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Yes there are less monsters on Survivals now. Did a Survival Glitter and monsters were at around 1500 at the final waves and each wave only took 2 minutes. And 1600 enemies isn't much to what it used to be. (4000+)

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Its pity that change was only to vanilla campaign maps.. was looking to at last be able to play morago with all friends.. but still killing 8+k mobs at 20+ wave is still way to nottingham even with Sharken.. so still stocked to duo...

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eey Bainzucka,

using 3 players and getting 2800 mobs in misty or 5000 in maroggo is not about the same.
about would be something like 3500 on maroggo.

Yours truly,

Domistroy

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Deeper Well only had 578 max on nm hc solo survival. Used to be in the thousands. Sharken still kicked my butt at wave 21.

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As I said before, Its pity that they changed only vanilla maps, and still endgame maps survivals are max for 2 players, cuz more players dont bring any challenge but just time wasted on trash mobs..

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Ok, when they said they were going to make all survival maps like misty they didn't mean that they were going to match the creeps per wave. The thing about misty is that the number of creeps per wave hardly increased if at all. Whereas on other maps the number of creeps per wave would increase by about 1000 per wave till eventually there was 10,000 creeps in one wave which was stupid, and wasn't challenging it was just a waste of time. So even though Magnus quarters with 3 people has 3000 creeps per wave it was still 3000 creeps on wave 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25. The number of creeps in the wave doesn't really increase, just like misty.

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Ok, when they said they were going to make all survival maps like misty they didn't mean that they were going to match the creeps per wave. The thing about misty is that the number of creeps per wave hardly increased if at all. Whereas on other maps the number of creeps per wave would increase by about 1000 per wave till eventually there was 10,000 creeps in one wave which was stupid, and wasn't challenging it was just a waste of time. So even though Magnus quarters with 3 people has 3000 creeps per wave it was still 3000 creeps on wave 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25. The number of creeps in the wave doesn't really increase, just like misty.

The simple fact of the matter is they said they would reduce the number of creeps per wave on ALL maps and they didn't. It isn't even a matter of interpretation on the phrase "to about misty level" because they actually didn't reduce the number of creeps AT ALL on morrogo/karathiki.

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The maps have fewer mobs, and the hardest maps still have the most. That is plenty to be happy about. Yes they will still take time. It isn't like you should finish wave 25 in less then 3 minutes on a map that gives better loot and rewards.

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The simple fact of the matter is they said they would reduce the number of creeps per wave on ALL maps and they didn't. It isn't even a matter of interpretation on the phrase "to about misty level" because they actually didn't reduce the number of creeps AT ALL on morrogo/karathiki.


To be honest, I think you are the only person I've heard of who at all expected or cared about it affecting the newer maps.

Sure they shouldn't have said "all" maps. But most of us were pretty sure they were talking about older campaign maps, since that has always been where the complaints were..

P.S. If a map like moraggo had 'about as many' mobs as a map like mistymire, even within a few hundred, it would be extremely barren, dull and generally unfun. Either that or it'd go by twice as fast. And especially karathiki. If it had a similar mobcount to misty, they would either all have to spawn REALLY slow or all be out and on the map within seconds with such a tiny number.

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To be honest, I think you are the only person I've heard of who at all expected or cared about it affecting the newer maps.

Sure they shouldn't have said "all" maps. But most of us were pretty sure they were talking about older campaign maps, since that has always been where the complaints were..

P.S. If a map like moraggo had 'about as many' mobs as a map like mistymire, even within a few hundred, it would be extremely barren, dull and generally unfun. Either that or it'd go by twice as fast. And especially karathiki. If it had a similar mobcount to misty, they would either all have to spawn REALLY slow or all be out and on the map within seconds with such a tiny number.

Uh what? First off who in their right mind read the line in that patch note "ALL maps" and thought to themselves, "hrm, derp, they must only mean campaign maps and not actually mean all maps".

Also, wtf are you talking about morrogo would be "extremely barren"? You realize they can make it so the same number of mobs are out at any given time, and instead of having a wave take 20 minutes make it take 14 minutes instead. It wouldn't "feel" any different while you're actually playing, the wave would simply end faster. I don't know about you, but 90% of people i've talked to feel like morrogo takes too long and avoid doing it for that reason. It simply isn't fun to take 15-20 minutes for a single wave.

It completely blows my mind that there are people actually defending the fact that trendy lied to us in their patch notes, and to me this isn't some minor thing, this was going to be the highlight of this patch for me, I was actually going to be able to play morrogo with my friends and not have 8k+ waves starting at wave 13.

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Uh what? First off who in their right mind read the line in that patch note "ALL maps" and thought to themselves, "hrm, derp, they must only mean campaign maps and not actually mean all maps".

Most of us. Although I guess it should be more like 'Most of us who actually keep up with the forums and realized that 99% of the complaints on the issue were for pre-misty maps'

[quote]Also, wtf are you talking about morrogo would be "extremely barren"? You realize they can make it so the same number of mobs are out at any given time, and instead of having a wave take 20 minutes make it take 14 minutes instead. [/quote]
With all the extra space Moraggo has due to it's larger size, extra spawn point and extra enemy pathing options, having a 'similar' amount of enemies would have to pace enemies out much faster, seeing as how Moraggo is having to keep out more mobs at once than MM does to keep each lane as challenging as MM. If you spread out 1000 monsters over 5 spawn points instead of 4, your only two options are A> Fewer enemies per cluster (Making each lane easier to defend) or B> Having those 1000 monsters spawned faster with the inclusion of the other spawn point.

Your own particular example for this bothered me the most. Karathiki has 6 spawn points and 4(?) wyvern spawn points. Even when only one or two are spawning enemies, they are spawning exponentially more monsters due to how the system works to make up for the ones that aren't spawning. (This is also what causes wyvern and spider rushes)

Mistymire has 4 spawn points and 2 wyvern spawn points. This means that Karathiki needs at least 75% more enemies to be able to finish in the same time as Mistymire. In your example, 876 enemies for MM, 75% of 876 is 657. Add those together and you get 1533. Anything less than 1533 and the Karathiki wave would be shorter time-wise than the Mistymire wave. So 1659 doesn't add much time at all. And considering how huge karathiki is, it's not unreasonable to assume it'll take just a little longer. What you're asking for would cut a Karathiki wave down to taking half as long as a mistymire run. Or they'd have to space the enemy spawns out by about double just to make it last as long as Mistymire if it were going to have a similar enemy count. You have to look at the bigger picture here and not just assume that a wave with twice as many enemies will take 2x as long on a different map. That's not how it works, especially when the bigger map has almost twice as many spawn points and more space to fill.

[quote]It completely blows my mind that there are people actually defending the fact that trendy lied to us in their patch notes[/QUOTE]

It completely blows my mind that people think that a miswording in the patch notes was lying. Like I already pointed out though, anyone keeping up with the forums already knew the change was intended for the older campaign maps. It was even first announced in a thread complaining about the older campaign maps, seeing as how there were many of them at the time.

They could do a -little- tweaking to get the time down a bit towards MM times, but simply reducing the mob count to exactly MM levels (Or even close) would just make them go by much faster than MM. That's all I have to say on the subject.

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Snce Trendy hasn't even responded on the issue yet we don't even know if they misworded it, or simply forgot to implement the change on several maps. It's not like its a stretch to think its possible trendy can include something in their patch notes, then forget to actually include it in the patch, infact, it would be the 4th time I've seen it (2 of the times confirmed by Trendy) that it has happened.

Honestly if it were any other company I would likely just accept that it is what it is and move on, but the fact that Trendy has a record of including patch notes that weren't actually implimented makes me wonder if perhaps morrogo/karathiki are still supposed to be receiving a reduction in their waves.

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[QUOTE]The maps have fewer mobs, and the hardest maps still have the most. That is plenty to be happy about. Yes they will still take time. It isn't like you should finish wave 25 in less then 3 minutes on a map that gives better loot and rewards[/QUOTE]

I completely agree. This was one of the most awesome changes ever. 8000 mobs a wave in Magus or Foundries and taking a day or two to run a survival when people have schedules, lives, DISCONNECTS, etc..
Trendy heard us and responded like champions. (ok, it took awhile *jab*)

The OP complains about a lot of mobs in later waves of end game survival. IMO this could be a thread simply requesting those maps be reduced somewhat and still giving high praise for a much needed change. Then the end game players who care about those very few maps (and still to me not many mobs at all) can respond and Trendy can make a better judgement on the issue.

vanilla maps? I resemble that remark!
:)

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I completely agree. This was one of the most awesome changes ever. 8000 mobs a wave in Magus or Foundries and taking a day or two to run a survival when people have schedules, lives, DISCONNECTS, etc..
Trendy heard us and responded like champions. (ok, it took awhile *jab*)

The OP complains about a lot of mobs in later waves of end game survival. IMO this could be a thread simply requesting those maps be reduced somewhat and still giving high praise for a much needed change. Then the end game players who care about those very few maps (and still to me not many mobs at all) can respond and Trendy can make a better judgement on the issue.

vanilla maps? I resemble that remark!
:)

Wtf are you talking about, wave 13 is not end game survival, 7k mobs on wave 13 is still way too high for solo, there aren't even that many on wave 30 misty. Not to mention that's not even what I'm complaining about, if they want to have those maps take 14 hours to complete, that's fine with me, but at least be a little more specific in patch notes so you don't get my hopes up.

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I also thought "all" meant "all," and I was excited to get some people together to see how far we could get toward the whooping 35 waves of Morrago. Quite disappointed. Last time, we gave up somewhere wave 20+ just cuz it taking almost an hour a wave. People need to eat meals, sleep, etc. and at different times. Less enemies means less drops, so it balances out. It just allows a survival run to be done in an evening//night (like in case you work).

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This is why I never do 3 or 4 player Survival. I limit myself to solo/duo Survival play because of how skewed the mob count changes from 1/2 to 3/4 players.

Solo? Probably never going to see 1k mobs anywhere (except a few obvious maps). 4 players? Have fun with 6k+ a wave.

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