Why sharken can never be balanced and why they promote "no fun" gameplay

First of with balance i mean that sharken will provide a new challengeto the players and on the other hand wont be completly game breaking. So why cant they never be balanced?
Its simple, they will either be strong enough to be able to break through defenses, even if they do it ONCE in 35 waves of over 200k monsters its game over OR they will be so weak that they wont be able to charge through even once and then they are just gonna be a bigger goblin with more HP and no resistences.

So this mob can decided your fate in a game based on chance since there will be times where you wont be able to do anything to stop him. No other mob does that, there are counters to everything else and you can always go yourself somewhere that needs help to dps the mobs down or repair towers/barricades/etc with sharken there is nothing you can do(well you can sell every defense there, rebuild everything, make it 3 stars in 5 seconds and everything will be fine :D), one sharken pulls of his charge once and its gg.

The only real counter to sharken is to build no physical towers, only beams, traps and auras. Good that could work so now they can remove more then half of the avaliable classes from this because they are completly useless and there is absolutly no reason to play them.

TLDR: Tower pushing OP, can never be balanced, pls remove from game

I agree with this. Especially with 30M HP ogres that require the EV/backwards Spike trick to kill, Trendy would need to balance a whole lot of things other than Sharken to get Sharken into a balanced state.

Its simple, they will either be strong enough to be able to break through defenses, even if they do it ONCE in 35 waves of over 200k monsters its game over OR they will be so weak that they wont be able to charge through even once and then they are just gonna be a bigger goblin with more HP and no resistences.

you mean... like djinn can warp your defenses and let superspeed ogres to your crystal? i think the challenge comes from building around them (compare insane builds to NM, NM builds have to be changed quite considerably to accomodate the threat of spiders/djinn)

- you throw a gas trap into a build and voila you have a 'bigger [floating] goblin with more hp and no resistences[sic]'

TLDR: Tower pushing OP, can never be balanced, pls remove from game

it hasnt been a day since they were introduced -_-

I would rather the shark be able to hit your towers and the upgrades go down by one or two,rather than push the towers all over the map.

I think one issue with the new enemies in NM is that the difficulty difference between NM and insane is becoming greater and greater.

when i paid for this game it was advertised as a tower defense game. sharken make it so that you LOSE unless there's a physical person at every point of defense to stop them. so now my "tower defense" game *requires* a player at every point of defense. i will be quitting if this issue is not resolved immediately. Sorry but i expect to be able to use towers. Nuff said

when i paid for this game it was advertised as a tower defense game. sharken make it so that you LOSE unless there's a physical person at every point of defense to stop them. so now my "tower defense" game *requires* a player at every point of defense. i will be quitting if this issue is not resolved immediately. Sorry but i expect to be able to use towers. Nuff said

We have been at that point once already, luckily nm changed that back from ya huntress dps ftw to heck damm we need a good tower tactic to beat it.

The biggest problem is Trendy keeps introducing enemies that can effectively end the game for you with one glitch, bad spawn, or mistake without warning.

The first enemy that was introduced was a spider, they are obnoxious and can disable towers but at least the player will have some time to react before they take down a lvl 5 harpoon and they will never do much to walls.

Next came the djinn. The djinn doesn't care about your lvl 5 status of that wall or tower, it doesn't care about pathing and it gives players no time to repair or fix damage caused if they don't noticed the Djinn.

Now we have the Sharken, who like the Djinn will end the game for a player with little warning. However, unlike the Djinn they will end the game instantly.

We now have two instant loss monsters, and if the airship is really going to work the way its speculated (Sharken are doing exactly what we thought they would in exactly the manner we thought it would happen) we will have 3 instant loss monsters. This would be fine if they came in very small numbers that gave a player time to react but they do not.

So not only do they ignore the basic aspects of the game (lvl 5 towers,walls are hard to kill giving the player time time to react) they come in large numbers. When thousands of monsters have to be killed per game the chance that something will go horribly wrong causing an instant loss just keeps getting higher with these new mobs. It's okay for stuff to go horribly wrong as long as the player can recover. These monsters give no chance for that to happen.

Or perhaps they did think about it.
If these sharkens cant push beams, as you said, you'll have to use (and buy) the EV DLC to get those beam blocades, 3.99€ iirc.

But imo the sharkens are ****, and please dont become one of those companies that only makes a game for the money.
The game was awesome yesterday, but now i'm not so sure.

They push physical beams like other towers.

So they didn't make them to make us buy more DLCs..

The difference between insane and nm are just getting way to big now.
A new player can soon do insane, but with the equipment he can find there, he'll never be able to do any nm maps.

Not to mention the stupidity of if your walls/towers are pushed out of buff beams then the whole buff beam goes down.
Or if the sharken move your walls you can't sell them without losing the buff beam and subsequent extra damage/resistances provided by the beam.

I play this game to have fun. Sharken aren't fun.
As others have mentioned, this is meant to be a tower defence game, but it's now turned into "Oh you have towers, but you also need multiple people to stop one mob ruining it for you from the start".

Just played a quick Deeper Well just then. If I put gas traps out further they stop Sharken, but get desummoned by Djinn.
If I put gas traps in close the sharken run straight through my walls and leave a clear path for the 400000 ogres to stroll on through.
I ended up having to do the first 13 waves with my map open pretty much the entire time until I knew I had killed every Sharken.

Won't be playing DD again until either they're fixed or removed.

[QUOTE]If these sharkens cant push beams, as you said, you'll have to use (and buy) the EV DLC to get those beam blocades, 3.99 iirc.[/QUOTE]
They push physical beams like other towers.

Or perhaps they did think about it.
If these sharkens cant push beams, as you said, you'll have to use (and buy) the EV DLC to get those beam blocades, 3.99€ iirc.

But imo the sharkens are ****, and please dont become one of those companies that only makes a game for the money.
The game was awesome yesterday, but now i'm not so sure.

EV beams are pushable.

The issue here is that players who's only "inspiration" for builds comes from ddplanner.com and they haven't found one who works yet... The mob has been out for a few hours, is still receiving considerable changes, and people are already crying out everywhere. Sigh. Adjust your builds and experiment a little longer then an hour or two, lol.

I definitely see what the op is saying and it is very similar to how the djinn were when they first were released. Anyway, I'm trying to get a discussion going about the main issue with abilities that the sharken and djinn have and how it seems to be pushing the game in a different direction, but currently lots of things would need to change to make that direction viable.

http://forums.trendyent.com/showthread.php?58025-Sharken-Djinn-and-more-new-Mobs

The point is that there's still SO MANY THINGS WRONG WITH THE GAME (tower missing, tower hitting walls, glitched djinns, ETC ETC ETC) and they introduce a mob that's GAME BREAKING.

Yes, we need new stuff, but please, if you FIX THE GAME FIRST then you can introduce "challenge mobs".

Yay! 2.5 weeks till Diablo 3!!!

The gap between Insane and Nightmare is growing exponentially larger with each Shards release. It will be nearly impossible for new players to ever break into Nightmare difficulty. As things stand now, many people have hit a progression wall because of the quantum leap in difficulty that Nightmare is...nightmare difficulty is starting to live up to its name. If it becomes too difficult, the game will cease to be fun. When you find yourself consistently losing at something, it is only human nature to give up the current pursuit and pursue something different.

I love this game and I've put in more hours in a shorter period of time than any other game I've ever played. It will be unfortunate if the finished Nightmare difficulty setting results in a game that is not fun to play.

Anywho, in 2.5 weeks I may change my primary game anyway. Blizzard is very good at making well-balanced and playable games. I just hope that I want to keep playing DD too. Trendy, please don't break this game.

At least the djinn just "destroyed" things. No different than any other tower getting destroyed really. This new headache of a creature moves stuff. MOVES stuff. Not cool.

At least the djinn just "destroyed" things. No different than any other tower getting destroyed really. This new headache of a creature moves stuff. MOVES stuff. Not cool.

It's still pretty funny when your Ogre friend moves Towers during 'Unlikely Allies' :D As for the issue at hand, I'm on the fence about it. On the one hand, we haven't had a chance to test and experiment with the new monster. On the other hand (as others have mentioned), pushing Towers seems very similar to the initial speedy-unsummon of Dijins in that the mechanic itself is flawed. At the moment, I'm just enjoying the scenery of the new maps :)

we need a "net" blockade, they aren't strong but will stop the sharken's charge, so they will be similar to the reflector walls.

I think we need more characters that have ablities to stop the new mob types, like Barb's turtle stance stops him from being webbed. It would have been neat if EV had something to instantly stop desummoning, like say if you drop down the hologram, it will instantly arggo the djinn to it.

Perhaps the Summoner will have beasts that will tackle the sharken but won't take up DU, something like this will be handy if you are soloing.

we need a "net" blockade, they aren't strong but will stop the sharken's charge, so they will be similar to the reflector walls.

I think we need more characters that have ablities to stop the new mob types, like Barb's turtle stance stops him from being webbed. It would have been neat if EV had something to instantly stop desummoning, like say if you drop down the hologram, it will instantly arggo the djinn to it.

Perhaps the Summoner will have beasts that will tackle the sharken but won't take up DU, something like this will be handy if you are soloing.

New class idea...Fisherman. You place bait. And then your primary weapon will be a fishing pole. And then you catch it. And then I don't know.

This is how I feel about the sharken.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gciFoEbOA8

Trendy just needs to give us more DU when playing on Nightmare mode I mean before this was fine it could be dealt with but with every new DLC bringing a new mob there is never enough towers.

While I just recently broke into nightmare mode (thank you zaxvax for your journal/guide) today I was completely overwhelmed by sharkens. While I think the idea of being able to push defenses is neat, the current execution seems a bit harsh. I think it would be much more balanced to have them actually push defenses and not just charge through them. Slowly moving them would allow solo players to react and build against them while giving a challenge when combined with the other new mobs.

the new addition to nightmare has increased the disparity between insane and NM the difficulty jump is just stupid. why increase the difficulty level of content already released. Fine put the sharken in the new stuff but quit adding new and harder mobs to existing content and making it harder for people to move from one difficulty level to the next.

on a side note I was doing Alchemy Lab and the sharken pushed my physical beam into the terrain making it hard to find and sell so i could rebuild it. if they are allowed to push things then they should not be allowed to push them into the terrain. this will happen more and more unfortunately.

I for one will be looking for something else to play now this is becoming a joke to progress in if you just reach a level only to be punched in the face yet again when trying to move into the Higher difficulty, leave the existing mobs in the existing maps, put the new mobs in the new maps only.

As everyone's said, they've not been out long enough to give them a proper assessment. I do agree that your average player leaping from insane and coming to Nightmare are going to have an especially hard time now and may need a hand or an AFK shop, but just like when djinn came out, everyone cried Doomsday. They will be tweaked more and more as time goes on. They're by no means unbalanceable, but they are very cruel indeed and do need fixes and more tweaks. The mega nerf is a good start. I really think we need some way to reposition walls, even if it's only during Build Phase.

The issue here is that players who's only "inspiration" for builds comes from ddplanner.com and they haven't found one who works yet... The mob has been out for a few hours, is still receiving considerable changes, and people are already crying out everywhere. Sigh. Adjust your builds and experiment a little longer then an hour or two, lol.

Yeah, I never understood why people use websites that tell them what to build and where. The fun of the game, and especially nightmare, is mixing things up yourself and planning with a friend of yours if you have one joining you in DD.

This is how I feel about the sharken.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gciFoEbOA8

Off topic, this is what I say when I see a Sharken.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mqgtn5muHyc

"The game was awesome yesterday, but now i'm not so sure."

Totally agree.
Please remake the shark or remove it.