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Info on sharken so far


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For everyone disappointed of the new patch - nightmare is still in BETA. If you don't like sharken, go play insane (finished difficulty), becuase nightmare is UNFINISHED and it's ok to have game breaking changes. And you know why? Because it's gonna be fixed, balanced, made playable soon.

There are some new patch notes already and it seems that sharken is going to be nerfed a lot.


You pretty much just said quit the game. Because I've done everything on Insane (and everything but new content) on NM. Now I can't even do older content on NM. So, I guess we should all just take your advice and quit DD.

Good job.

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So do they only charge at the crystal or just at the nearest defense or are they like ogres and target the defense attacking them?

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Big gas (1400 range + buff boost) seems enough to stop them. Although only tested on a couple of early wave maps, so might not hold true on long lanes (I guess Kandar's misty doesn't work).
Player (and pet) damage seems to interrupt their stomping.
Lowered threshold for damage, plus lowered health, plus lowered stomp range ought to help a lot.
Lightning tower doesn't appear to interrupt them, but's a bit a mad, and they're gassed fast so I can't really tell.

I suspect the range change will probably fix most of the issues.

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So do they only charge at the crystal or just at the nearest defense or are they like ogres and target the defense attacking them?


i test the wall almost on the spawn point, they charge at the near tower, still see some of them just doing normal attacks to them, trying to find if they start the charge with the path all blocked or they dont if have some way to reach the crystal.

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[QUOTE]* Sharken Charge range reduced by 66%, Sharken Interrupt Damage Health-Percentage Reduced from 25% to 10%, Sharken Charge Time increased by 3x, Sharken Health Reduced by 33%, Sharken numbers reduced on all maps by 50%[/QUOTE]

So, let's run those numbers:

Sharken Charge range reduced: Meaning they will probably start their charge inside the range of your defenses, where they will remain stationary for a period.
Sharken Interrupt Damage Reduced from 25% to 10%, Charge Time Increased by 3x, Health Reduced by 33%: So, the total DPS needed to interrupt a Sharken before he starts charging has been reduced to (2/3)*(1/3)*(2/5) = 4/45, which is roughly 9% of the DPS needed previously for a given Sharken, but wait! they have also reduced Sharken numbers to half what they where before, so the combined defenses need to dedicate only half of their DPS now compared to previously. So counting everything Sharken have been nerfed from 100% to 4.5% effectiveness.

Guess i won't be playing 'till 7.30b hits.

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Big gas (1400 range + buff boost) seems enough to stop them. Although only tested on a couple of early wave maps, so might not hold true on long lanes (I guess Kandar's misty doesn't work).
Player (and pet) damage seems to interrupt their stomping.
Lowered threshold for damage, plus lowered health, plus lowered stomp range ought to help a lot.
Lightning tower doesn't appear to interrupt them, but's a bit a mad, and they're gassed fast so I can't really tell.

I suspect the range change will probably fix most of the issues.


Does the effective range get boosted yet in the gas traps? Otherwise not sure if putting the gas trap in a buff beam will make much difference. Unless you need the triggering range increase. If it doesn't increase the effective range, you can just put them further forward.

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So, let's run those numbers:

Sharken Charge range reduced: Meaning they will probably start their charge inside the range of your defenses, where they will remain stationary for a period.
Sharken Interrupt Damage Reduced from 25% to 10%, Charge Time Increased by 3x, Health Reduced by 33%: So, the total DPS needed to interrupt a Sharken before he starts charging has been reduced to (2/3)*(1/3)*(2/5) = 4/45, which is roughly 9% of the DPS needed previously for a given Sharken, but wait! they have also reduced Sharken numbers to half what they where before, so the combined defenses need to dedicate only half of their DPS now compared to previously. So counting everything Sharken have been nerfed from 100% to 4.5% effectiveness.

Guess i won't be playing 'till 7.30b hits.


But then what's the point in Sharken if they become so horribly gimped. Why Trendy felt it necesary to give into the whiners who don't even pledge more than half an hour of trying to see if there is a way around this thread, I have no idea. They should have given it a day or two AT LEAST, before they went ahead with any adjustments.

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Does the effective range get boosted yet in the gas traps? Otherwise not sure if putting the gas trap in a buff beam will make much difference. Unless you need the triggering range increase. If it doesn't increase the effective range, you can just put them further forward.

Buff beams increase the triggering range by a lot, but the effective range only goes up by a little if you have decent stats.

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Yeah. Triggering range. Always better to trigger early, since they seem to be first out of the gates quite often.

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So, let's run those numbers:

Sharken Charge range reduced: Meaning they will probably start their charge inside the range of your defenses, where they will remain stationary for a period.
Sharken Interrupt Damage Reduced from 25% to 10%, Charge Time Increased by 3x, Health Reduced by 33%: So, the total DPS needed to interrupt a Sharken before he starts charging has been reduced to (2/3)*(1/3)*(2/5) = 4/45, which is roughly 9% of the DPS needed previously for a given Sharken, but wait! they have also reduced Sharken numbers to half what they where before, so the combined defenses need to dedicate only half of their DPS now compared to previously. So counting everything Sharken have been nerfed from 100% to 4.5% effectiveness.

Guess i won't be playing 'till 7.30b hits.


Wow, do you run statistics for the tobacco companies?

* Sharken Interrupt Damage Reduced from 25% to 10%
* Charge Time Increased by 3x
* Health Reduced by 33%

Lets run some real numbers instead of making up some statistics. First off: *Charge time increased by 3x, this has nothing to do with interrupting the sharken other than it takes longer for them to charge at a wall. This can not be included in the statistics. But since you somehow added it in yours i'll make a separate category for it at the bottom.

For the easy math way we are going to assume that the sharken has 100hp. So originally a player had to do 25 damage to interrupt them (25%).

Lets see how much it takes now, our 100hp Sharken now has 77hp. (* Health Reduced by 33%). It takes 10% of that to interrupt them (*Sharken Interrupt Damage Reduced from 25% to 10%). This means it would take 7.7 damage to interrupt them. This means they require 70% less damage to interrupt them from a player. (7.7/25 - 1).

This means Sharken are down to 30% of what was required to interrupt them as before. In your world you consider that it takes them 3x as long to charge, this would mean that it would require about 10% of the player damage required to interrupt them as before.

Now lets consider some real dungeon defenders numbers. Lets say this
Wave 28 Misty Sharken have (just a wild guess from forum posts) about 7million health.
Their charge timer (again just from forum posts) seems to be about 3 seconds. This means in it's current state a player has to find, target, and damage a sharken for 1.75million damage in 3 seconds. This requires them locating the sharken and doing 600k dps to them the entire time with no distractions in NM. This isn't easy.

The change means that the same player will now need to do 469,000dmg (33% of 7mil = 4.69 million. 10% of 4.69mil) to interrupt them in 9 seconds. Or 52,000 dmg a second if they see them from the very beginning (which never happens). This is MUCH easier but still difficult to do for those that don't have amazing weapons and gear.

Now whats the penalty for not doing this? YOU LOSE, GAME OVER. If the penalty wasn't so high and it didn't take so long to setup and upgrade towers I'd agree to hold off on the nerf. As it is, the nerf is very much needed.

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Buff beams increase the triggering range by a lot, but the effective range only goes up by a little if you have decent stats.


Are you sure the effective range goes up at all? Last I check it wasn't effected, so unless I'm running into some hard cap on range I didn't see it go up at all.

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Are you sure the effective range goes up at all? Last I check it wasn't effected, so unless I'm running into some hard cap on range I didn't see it go up at all.

You may be hitting the hard cap. It's somewhere between 9 and 10 right? I never remember.

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You may be hitting the hard cap. It's somewhere between 9 and 10 right? I never remember.


effective range is different for every trap, are you referring to gas specifically? I'm not really sure if there is a hard cap. I think I have around 900-1000 range, but I have no idea if there is a hard cap on effective range. Also, 9-10 would definitely be smaller than the effective range for other traps. I want to say (from memory) the inferno is near 15 effective range, gas is maybe a bit smaller.

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Checking....
Hmm. Nope. buff beams don't affect effect range at all. Just trigger range.


Personally I think they should :( but it has been this way for a while. They even have a monk guardian buff listed as a bug in that it can make traps so big that mobs don't even take dmg till they walk well into the trap.

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Personally I think they should :( but it has been this way for a while. They even have a monk guardian buff listed as a bug in that it can make traps so big that mobs don't even take dmg till they walk well into the trap.
Good for everything except proxies, really.

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Watch, i bet this new hero coming out has something that counter sharkmen so you pretty much have to buy him. Like with EV.


Summoned monsters counting as hero damage? Can totally see this happening

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Good for everything except proxies, really.


Increasing trigger is mildly nice for most traps, but it doesn't really matter most of the time since gas/darkness/inferno last so long the trigger range doesn't matter all that much. The effective range on the otherhand (which isn't buffed) makes a huge difference in where you place a trap.

Also, not that anyone uses EST's, but increasing trigger without increasing effective range can actually make them miss. I've tested it before on dummies.

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It makes a big difference with sharken :P
If they close enough to start their charge before the trap triggers, they'll charge. If they trigger before they're in, then they won't close range.

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It makes a big difference with sharken :P
If they close enough to start their charge before the trap triggers, they'll charge. If they trigger before they're in, then they won't close range.


It matters for the first sharken if they beat all the other mobs to the trap. After the first sharken it won't really matter because the trap will already be triggered. It would still be really nice if the buff beam buffed both effective and trigger range.

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Look like trendy fail again-sharks and DLC fail.. When diablo3 come out, DD will die


oh how true that is..

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