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Electric Towers Linear and Exponential what??!


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does a flat 10% extra all the time

also each point in damage does 8% more than it used to do more than the last.

say each point added 1% more damage than the last point it would now add 1.08% more than the last.
which late game IS ALOT

they nurfed the exponential ramp by 15% a while ago and it almost halved late game damage (was rebuffed back to what it was though) so 8% is decent!

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I believe it means that they buffed the exponential and also gave it a flat 10% extra damage too.


thanks Levis but can you try to make an example?
Let's say the tower was hitting for 1000, now it will 1100 for the flat and...?

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basicaly

old | new

base damage 100 | 110

damage increase
per point in damage 1%^x | 1.08%^x


damage with 100 points 270.48 | 322.04

damage with 1000 points 2.09mil | 5.08mil





obviously they calculate damage different because 1000 points isnt that much damage but you get the idea

i did it by base damage * (1.01 or 1.0108)^points

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basicaly

old | new

base damage 100 | 110

damage increase
per point in damage 1%^x | 1.08%^x


damage with 100 points 270.48 | 322.04

damage with 1000 points 2.09mil | 5.08mil





obviously they calculate damage different because 1000 points isnt that much damage but you get the idea

i did it by base damage * (1.01 or 1.0108)^points


Well, you've got the locations of the stat and exponent wrong in the equation.

It's more base damage * (points) ^ exponent, and the exponent is typically less than 1 (causing diminishing returns - your way round would have increasing returns, which nothing in this game except resistance has)

Anyways, DDDK exists, so I'm gonna run some tests if it'll let me.

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Well, you've got the locations of the stat and exponent wrong in the equation.

It's more base damage * (points) ^ exponent, and the exponent is typically less than 1 (causing diminishing returns - your way round would have increasing returns, which nothing in this game except resistance has)

Anyways, DDDK exists, so I'm gonna run some tests if it'll let me.


bby exponent you mean the damage bonus per point less than 1 yeah?

well its close enough to give the right idea >.<
yeah check the dddk and get back to us

it'll add a few thousand damage on at 1500 points in damage atleast

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thanks guys now I got it :)
Any Idea of real damage now and after in NM?!?


basicall nightmare damage is just normal damage multiplied buy whatever nughtmare multiplys it by.

but well it will be more than 10% stronger if you have ANY points in damage, which everyone does

i'll have a look and try n work it out and edit it in here

base damage is 50 without 30% boost from active hero (which makes it 67.5)
exponent is 0.57777 recuring i think


soooo after patch exponent should be 0.623 ish


0 points will be 55 instead of 50
100 will be 969 instead of 715
500 will be 2641 instead of 1812
1000 will be 4067 instead of 2705
1500 will be 5236 instead of 3420
2000 will be 6264 instead of 4038

add the 30% for active hero on after

those amounts arnt exact, the exponent is a bit off by less than 0.0001% but it still make +/-100 points difference at the 1000+ points area.

im sure you can then find the nightmare multiplier by checking before and after

EDIT :checked again exponent is 0.5778XXXXX so all my numbers are slightly lower than they should be but yeah no more than a few hundred at 2000 points

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nightmare multiplier is just a straight 1.6x multiplier to damage, which would make the 2000 point tower hit for like, 9800 damage.

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[c3;439289']nightmare multiplier is just a straight 1.6x multiplier to damage, which would make the 2000 point tower hit for like, 9800 damage.


very interesting. Unless the new monsters will be very weak vs lighting, this is still usless, don't u think?!?

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[c3;439289']nightmare multiplier is just a straight 1.6x multiplier to damage, which would make the 2000 point tower hit for like, 9800 damage.

its a bit more than 1.6 though isnt it?

EDIT: nvm you're right

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very interesting. Unless the new monsters will be very weak vs lighting, this is still usless, don't u think?!?


remember to add on the 30% bonus so it'd be 12640 + buff beams if you have them at 2.15x damage its 27k, and they're multi target, mainly for masses of little guys, i wouldnt be using them for ogres, djin or sharken.

also there dps is actually twice what it says on the tower, but thats due to it hitting twice as fast as its supposed to(or they have the dps number wrong) like slice and dice if anyone else bothered to try it out so thats 54k dps

btw this isnt every tic of it, its what it says its dps is on the tower (NOT dummies)

again im just guestimating

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yeah, i think lightning towers and slice n dice towers (SnD i know are listed as an attack rate of .2 seconds) show the number for them hitting 5 times per second in the delve, but they hit almost 10 times per second (its like, 1.98x the delved attack rate or something like that).

without out an apprentice out, they will be doing like, 17k damage per target per second in NM, with an apprentice in it would be like, 24k per second, which puts them pretty close to bowling ball towers, considering their damage coverage. i think boosted by a buff beam mine have something like 52 chain targets. which theoretically means they could be doing, like, 1.2 million damage per second to a large group.

it opens up some interesting possibilities.

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Formula for Lightning towers (atleast currently gives me the ingame damage values):
10 * ( ((1 + (0.66 * (MIN((Hero_Skill + 1 + TV_0);4)^0.0924 - 1)) + (0.75 * ((Hero_Skill + 1 + Tower_Value)^0.57 - 1)) ) * GlobalTower_DamageMultiplier)^1.105 * Creator_Bonus * UpgradeDamage_Multiplier) / 0.33

Rounded Down

Where:
Hero_Skill is your skill rank
GlobalTower_DamageMultiplier = 1.6
Creator_Bonus = 1.33 (if creator is in play, 1.0 otherwise)
Tower_Value = 0/2/5/12/22/32 (based on upgrade level)
UpgradeDamage_Multiplier = 1.0/1.1/1.2/1.3/1.4/1.5

Yellow is (as far as I can tell) the linear multiplier while red is the exponent they are refering to.

Difficulity also increases the tower damage beyond this.

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Good change and campaign maps will definatly benefit from this although its hard to say if survival will have much of a use. It has the potential for a huge amount of damge but requires big groups of mobs each time to acheive this. Early level survival it destroys all the non ogre, djinn very fast and i use them on pure strat for up to wave 14 easier pet farming but as soon as their HP ramp up through the later waves you find althought it does loads of total damage, its just tickling each mob and contributes to very little stopping power to reduce damage taken to your walls. You watch as spiders brave through and continue to web and wyverns carry on flying through while taking continuous damage :P.

It will have some uses but due to the nature of the nature of tower will unfortunatly still be close to useless on late wave survival which is a shame (but i will test it in places none the less). Would require some kind of percentage of specific mob type health damage or increase in damage the longer it was attacking the same mob for it to be effective all the way through the game.

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Interruptions + range are what it's useful for. Stops mages casting, archers shooting, zippies lighting.
Also chains nicely to stuff caught in a gas trap, which is probably lined up so that harps aren't really taking advantage of piercing, assuming they're hitting at all. Yes, it's not doing much per hit, but when stuff is stuck coughing for a minute or more, that's plenty of time for a lightning to execute it all.

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@onslaught:
i don't think it was/is intended for lighnting towers to be stand-alone defenses that kill off small mobs on their own. but what you described makes the life of your other towers much easier if you complement them with a LT.

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Interruptions + range are what it's useful for. Stops mages casting, archers shooting, zippies lighting.
Also chains nicely to stuff caught in a gas trap, which is probably lined up so that harps aren't really taking advantage of piercing, assuming they're hitting at all. Yes, it's not doing much per hit, but when stuff is stuck coughing for a minute or more, that's plenty of time for a lightning to execute it all.


Ye well i will be testing it out but i know Du is already very tight on most maps will have to see what i can figure out. The newer maps are far more spread out between crystals and defense spots which adds to the tough choice as they aren't cheap :). Maybe they will also be advantagous somehow with sharken somehow?! although i haven't read much info on how they work, apart from pushing buildings yet.


@spliff
Don't get me wrong i'm happy with the change and try to use them where i can. They have their uses as i stated i'm just saying its a shame i haven't been able to utilise them in late game as their benefit seemed to deminish a lot for their high DU cost once the mob HP ramps up.

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make a beam slightly shorter and swap out a harpoon, lightning kills all the spiders,goblins,archers and mages so the harpoons can focus on the important things

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Formula for Lightning towers (atleast currently gives me the ingame damage values):
10 * ( ((1 + (0.66 * (MIN((Hero_Skill + 1 + TV_0);4)^0.0924 - 1)) + (0.75 * ((Hero_Skill + 1 + Tower_Value)^0.57 - 1)) ) * GlobalTower_DamageMultiplier)^1.105 * Creator_Bonus * UpgradeDamage_Multiplier) / 0.33

Rounded Down

Where:
Hero_Skill is your skill rank
GlobalTower_DamageMultiplier = 1.6
Creator_Bonus = 1.33 (if creator is in play, 1.0 otherwise)
Tower_Value = 0/2/5/12/22/32 (based on upgrade level)
UpgradeDamage_Multiplier = 1.0/1.1/1.2/1.3/1.4/1.5

Yellow is (as far as I can tell) the linear multiplier while red is the exponent they are refering to.

Difficulity also increases the tower damage beyond this.


Could also be the 0.57, but this doesn't make a too much of a difference for large stats.

For large values and only depending on the damage stat all comes down to a formula in the order of x^0.63, the changes would change it to something like 1.1*x^0.68.

Here's a plot of those two functions, as well as the quotient:


So the damage might be multiplied by about 1.55 to 1.65 for the relevant stat values.

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lightning towers are good for clearing clots of mobs and spiders... the main issue is when beamed they have SUCH a range that they get distracted way off target

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